Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Manley 20 Premium Caving Headlamp Review

[John Corcoran III]

Thanks Lee.

Regards,

John

-Original Message-
From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Lee 
H. Skinner
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 1:43 PM
To: New Mexico Cavers ; Texas Cavers 
; Sandia Grotto 

Subject: [SWR CAVERS] Manley 20 Premium Caving Headlamp Review

Derek Bristol has just released an excellent video on a great helmet light for 
cavers.   He is very prolific at creating many other videos on caving equipment 
as well as on his numerous visits of many interesting caves.  I recommend 
subscribing to his YouTube channel
(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC66bwyl1N0BVQ_gu3Zg-fnw) and clicking the 
bell to receive notifications of new and frequently released videos.

The headlamp review:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZe-iuMKacE

Regards,
Lee

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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halitetites

[Steve Keselik]

I'm not quite sure salt mines inter into the realm of speleology but I did
work in a very large salt dome near New Iberia La. on Weeks Island. My
brother surveyed the spiral shaft to the new part of the dome plus the
straight shaft, 1200' deep and 30' in dia. I was working on the drilling
rig that sank the brine casings so they could freeze the saturated ground
above . This was for Morton salt so they could lease the older tunnels for
the strategic oil storage of the the Federal government . The gulf of
Mexico coast has many domes the size of which boggles the mind. Sulfur
domes are mined with steam. If you've ever heard of Freeport Mc Muran, they
started as Freeport Sulfur in Texas.These sulfur domes now also store oil.
This is a very deep subject! Formations can be formed very quickly, go to
Krause Springs or Havasu in the GC or Hot springs Ark. and observe the
formation of minerals around the plant life. I'm just putting this out
there so others can research this phenomenon under or feet.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 9:22 AM Michael Queen  wrote:

> speculations on terminology:
>
> In some ways, speleology is  now in an evolutionary state, much as biology
> was in the early 18th century. Faced with a myriad of different things,
> they struggled to which diverse characteristics were the most important,
> and which were less critical. Order was eventually brought from chaos by
> the Linnean (binomial) system of classification. Since then there has been
> a general split between taxonomists who see all sorts of differences as
> significant and warrantling new names (splitters), and those who focus on
> more widely held characteristics (lumpers). There is perhaps no single
> right way of naming something. But when we do attach a name, we should be
> aware of the philosophical implications of doing so.  In particular, it
> seems there should be a distinction between the terms applied to the form
> and to the mineralogy of diverse speleothems. By convention, most
> speleothems are described as a function of their morphology, which is
> related to the physical nature of the environment, in which they formed
> (source of fluids, drives of supersaturation, etc.). The  mineralogic
> composition of the speleothem, which is related to the chemical nature of
> the environment, is in most cases is not mentioned, unless it's weird. If
> we start naming speleothems based on mineralogy, it would mean that we
> would need separate terms for calcite stalactites, aragonite stalactites,
> mixed calcite and aragonite stalactites, stalactites with laminae of
> hydromagnesite, etc., etc.. Following the hierarchical classification of
> organisms,  would it make more sense, by convention, to describe
> speleothems by using a morphological term with (as necessary) a
> mineralogical  modifier? It doesn't  diminish the significance of any
> particular feature but increases the information contained in the term.
> Additionally, it makes the translation into other languages easier,
> searching terms easier and more intuitive, etc..
>
> As as rule, the people who first discover and find something new  are more
> likely to be splitters, and the people who follow up and bring diverse
> studies together are lumpers. They are like arborists, cropping off limbs
> that seem less functional than others. This commonly is related to age of
> the researcher, where young scholars are in the field finding new things,
> older scholars are in the labs, understanding what they have found, and
> long-toothed scholars are in the office, writing up and synthesizing the
> work of others. As a long-tooth myself, these relationships become
> increasingly clear.
>
> mq
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 6:45 PM J Lyles  wrote:
>
>> Cool, i know where Bex is, not far from Montreaux and Lac Leman right? I
>> go to that area frequently for work. Is it in the valley floor or up on the
>> cliffs in mountains?
>> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Mark Minton 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Another interesting salt mine to visit is the one at Bex, Switzerland. I
>>> went there in 1993-4. You can ride a miniature train through the workings
>>> and see antique equipment and workings. Everything gets encrusted with
>>> salt. The mine is still active today.
>>>
>>> Mark Minton
>>> mmin...@caver.net
>>>
>>> On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Dwight  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes.  We were at Turda a couple of years ago.  It's spectacular as the
>>> salt has flowed plastically and is highly contorted.  The "theme park" is a
>>> bit bizarre when you see it in person!
>>> Dirtdoc
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Harvey DuChene" 
>>> *To: *"Dwight" , jerryat...@aol.com, "Cave Texas" <
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, August 31, 2018 8:41:26 AM
>>> *Subject: *RE: [SWR CAVERS] Halitetites
>>>
>>> In 1998 or 1999, Kathy and I visited Romania and went to the salt mine
>>> at Turda in the Transylvanian Alps. The mine is very old, and I believe
>>> salt was being extracted as 

[Texascavers] Manley 20 Premium Caving Headlamp Review

[Lee H. Skinner]

Derek Bristol has just released an excellent video on a great helmet 
light for cavers.   He is very prolific at creating many other videos on 
caving equipment as well as on his numerous visits of many interesting 
caves.  I recommend subscribing to his YouTube channel 
(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC66bwyl1N0BVQ_gu3Zg-fnw) and clicking 
the bell to receive notifications of new and frequently released videos.


The headlamp review:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZe-iuMKacE

Regards,
Lee
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halite-tites

[Dwight]

It's JOKE, MIke! For crying out loud! And a reminder that you cannot always 
believe what you read on the internet especially in "forums". 





Thanks to Jerry, I have seen the note that was published so long ago. Here is 
what happened: 



My report on the fast-growing halite formations (mostly stalactites) in the 
underground workings in mines east of Carlsbad, New Mexico, was initially 
presented, along with all the interesting photographs, at the Winter technical 
meeting of the Southwest Region of the NSS at Carlsbad, New Mexico, on December 
6, 1966. An abstract (without illustrations) was printed in the Southwestern 
Cavers in the January-February issue, page 12, 1987. During my oral 
presentation, I facetiously referred to some of these deposits as 
"halite-tites". 



I did, also facetiously, refer to these things as "halite-tites" in my recent 
posts on these forums. Anyone who thinks this makes them citable scientific 
references badly misunderstands the way science, and scientific nomenclature, 
is done. 



DirtDoc 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Queen"  
To: "John"  
Cc: "Mark Minton" , "swrcavers@googlegroups com" 
, "texascavers list"  
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2018 8:21:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halitetites 

speculations on terminology: 

In some ways, speleology is now in an evolutionary state, much as biology was 
in the early 18th century. Faced with a myriad of different things, they 
struggled to which diverse characteristics were the most important, and which 
were less critical. Order was eventually brought from chaos by the Linnean 
(binomial) system of classification. Since then there has been a general split 
between taxonomists who see all sorts of differences as significant and 
warrantling new names (splitters),  

Snip All well-intended, but BLAH,BLAH, BALH! 
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill's tale

[Sheryl Rieck]

Holy cow I’m glad you are alright!!

Sheryl Rieck
sheryl.ri...@gmail.com

"You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might 
find you get what you need" Rolling Stones

> 
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill's tale

[Dwight]

I really feel for you, Bill! Once I just about ran my thumb into the blade of a 
table saw, but what you did was so much worse. Without any attempt to be flip, 
when I first read that story I thought it was about Charlie Loving. My first 
impulse was to ask Charlie if he could still pick his nose? 

DirtDoc 

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Re: [Texascavers] Bill's tale

[Logan]

Charley, that's one hell of a story, but I sure wish it wasn't true. 
Glad you had a good network of friends to help you travel and find good 
medical care. Hope you're recovered well enough to make it to TCR. And 
from now on, consider hiring a carpenter.

Logan

On 9/1/2018 8:48 AM, Charles Loving wrote:
So I guess it’s time to tell this story. Wednesday afternoon I was 
happily finishing up on a shaper , think of big router, the last few 
wooden pieces of the doors and windows for our home in Mexico and 
looking forward to gluing them all up and being a big step towards 
completing the house. A millisecond later I was unbelievably looking 
at a ruined right hand. A few minutes later after doing my best to 
staunch the blood flow I was at the clinic in Real. The doctor on duty 
took one look and said hospital in Matehuala an hour away. I stopped 
on the way out of town at a friends house. Luckily she was home and 
her boyfriend and she drove me to the hospital. Basically they sewed 
up a couple of arteries and assayed the damage, by the way with no 
painkillers . I guess just trying to see how tough I am. The doctor 
said I would need to go to a specialist in Saltillo or San Luis 
Potosí. They gave me antibiotics, pain meds, and a tetanus shot. When 
we left the hospital my friends boyfriend asked if I’d prefer to fly 
back to Texas. He offered to fly me in his Fairchild turbo prop. My 
response to this was, “You’ve got a plane?” Totally unassuming man and 
now a saint . He arranged for an employee to meet us halfway to 
Saltillo. This man drove me to a Holiday Inn where we had 
reservations. I walked in the lobby looking like someone out of a 
Quentin Tarentino movie. Complete with cartels and sicarios. The desk 
clerk looked up and said NO ROOMS, I protested that I had a 
reservation. NO ROOMS!! We got the same response across the street at 
a Hampton. At the next one I gave Juan my wallet and said, “This time 
you get the room and I’ll go in s side door.” I ended up having to go 
to a hospital in Saltillo because I started hemorrhaging again during 
the night. The next morning the driver picked me up and after a stop 
at Walmart to buy clothes,of course they didn’t fit anyway, by 8:30 we 
were airborne on the way to San Antonio. At SA the immigration guy 
took one look, said “I don’t want to know”, and waved me through. Gale 
in the meanwhile had found the top micro surgeon in the country with 
the aid of our next door neighbor who is a friend of an associate of 
the surgeon Dr. Fernando Levaro. Gale picked me up in SA and we drove 
to Houston. Within 10 minutes of walking into his office we were 
meeting with Dr. Levaro and within 1 hr I was in surgery. The surgery 
lasted 6 hours. I can’t say enough good things about this guy. He’s by 
the way one if those Mexicans they’re sending us. At the follow up 
today he told me he expected me to get back to close to 90% function. 
Skin grafts, nerve repair, tendons, bone fractures, vessel repair, and 
evidently I learned Spanish because I was speaking it while I was 
under anesthesia. I can’t begin to express the gratitude I have for 
every person I came across in the last two days, both friends and 
strangers. I’d post photo, but I’m not that cruel.
21 Comments 






--
Charlie Loving


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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Re: Halitetites

[Michael Queen]

speculations on terminology:

In some ways, speleology is  now in an evolutionary state, much as biology
was in the early 18th century. Faced with a myriad of different things,
they struggled to which diverse characteristics were the most important,
and which were less critical. Order was eventually brought from chaos by
the Linnean (binomial) system of classification. Since then there has been
a general split between taxonomists who see all sorts of differences as
significant and warrantling new names (splitters), and those who focus on
more widely held characteristics (lumpers). There is perhaps no single
right way of naming something. But when we do attach a name, we should be
aware of the philosophical implications of doing so.  In particular, it
seems there should be a distinction between the terms applied to the form
and to the mineralogy of diverse speleothems. By convention, most
speleothems are described as a function of their morphology, which is
related to the physical nature of the environment, in which they formed
(source of fluids, drives of supersaturation, etc.). The  mineralogic
composition of the speleothem, which is related to the chemical nature of
the environment, is in most cases is not mentioned, unless it's weird. If
we start naming speleothems based on mineralogy, it would mean that we
would need separate terms for calcite stalactites, aragonite stalactites,
mixed calcite and aragonite stalactites, stalactites with laminae of
hydromagnesite, etc., etc.. Following the hierarchical classification of
organisms,  would it make more sense, by convention, to describe
speleothems by using a morphological term with (as necessary) a
mineralogical  modifier? It doesn't  diminish the significance of any
particular feature but increases the information contained in the term.
Additionally, it makes the translation into other languages easier,
searching terms easier and more intuitive, etc..

As as rule, the people who first discover and find something new  are more
likely to be splitters, and the people who follow up and bring diverse
studies together are lumpers. They are like arborists, cropping off limbs
that seem less functional than others. This commonly is related to age of
the researcher, where young scholars are in the field finding new things,
older scholars are in the labs, understanding what they have found, and
long-toothed scholars are in the office, writing up and synthesizing the
work of others. As a long-tooth myself, these relationships become
increasingly clear.

mq

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 6:45 PM J Lyles  wrote:

> Cool, i know where Bex is, not far from Montreaux and Lac Leman right? I
> go to that area frequently for work. Is it in the valley floor or up on the
> cliffs in mountains?
> On Aug 31, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Mark Minton 
> wrote:
>>
>> Another interesting salt mine to visit is the one at Bex, Switzerland. I
>> went there in 1993-4. You can ride a miniature train through the workings
>> and see antique equipment and workings. Everything gets encrusted with
>> salt. The mine is still active today.
>>
>> Mark Minton
>> mmin...@caver.net
>>
>> On Fri, 31 Aug, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Dwight  wrote:
>>
>> Yes.  We were at Turda a couple of years ago.  It's spectacular as the
>> salt has flowed plastically and is highly contorted.  The "theme park" is a
>> bit bizarre when you see it in person!
>> Dirtdoc
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Harvey DuChene" 
>> *To: *"Dwight" , jerryat...@aol.com, "Cave Texas" <
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com>
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 31, 2018 8:41:26 AM
>> *Subject: *RE: [SWR CAVERS] Halitetites
>>
>> In 1998 or 1999, Kathy and I visited Romania and went to the salt mine at
>> Turda in the Transylvanian Alps. The mine is very old, and I believe salt
>> was being extracted as early as 900 bce. Tectonic forces have seriously
>> contorted the bedding, and halite stalactites have preferentially grown
>> along some of the bedding planes (see photo).  Since our visit almost 20
>> years ago, the mine has been turned into and underground theme park. Search
>> on “salina turda” to see what the place looks like today.
>>
>>
>> Harv
>>
>>
>> [image: Salina Turda salt mine in Romania reopens as theme park]
>>
>> --
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill's tale

[Nancy]

Aii caramba!  And I’ll bet all the care he received in Mexico was free or low 
cost.  What a tale. Best to bill gale and everyone involved.
Nancy 

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:48 AM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> 
> So I guess it’s time to tell this story. Wednesday afternoon I was happily 
> finishing up on a shaper , think of big router, the last few wooden pieces of 
> the doors and windows for our home in Mexico and looking forward to gluing 
> them all up and being a big step towards completing the house. A millisecond 
> later I was unbelievably looking at a ruined right hand. A few minutes later 
> after doing my best to staunch the blood flow I was at the clinic in Real. 
> The doctor on duty took one look and said hospital in Matehuala an hour away. 
> I stopped on the way out of town at a friends house. Luckily she was home and 
> her boyfriend and she drove me to the hospital. Basically they sewed up a 
> couple of arteries and assayed the damage, by the way with no painkillers . I 
> guess just trying to see how tough I am. The doctor said I would need to go 
> to a specialist in Saltillo or San Luis Potosí. They gave me antibiotics, 
> pain meds, and a tetanus shot. When we left the hospital my friends boyfriend 
> asked if I’d prefer to fly back to Texas. He offered to fly me in his 
> Fairchild turbo prop. My response to this was, “You’ve got a plane?” Totally 
> unassuming man and now a saint . He arranged for an employee to meet us 
> halfway to Saltillo. This man drove me to a Holiday Inn where we had 
> reservations. I walked in the lobby looking like someone out of a Quentin 
> Tarentino movie. Complete with cartels and sicarios. The desk clerk looked up 
> and said NO ROOMS, I protested that I had a reservation. NO ROOMS!! We got 
> the same response across the street at a Hampton. At the next one I gave Juan 
> my wallet and said, “This time you get the room and I’ll go in s side door.” 
> I ended up having to go to a hospital in Saltillo because I started 
> hemorrhaging again during the night. The next morning the driver picked me up 
> and after a stop at Walmart to buy clothes,of course they didn’t fit anyway, 
> by 8:30 we were airborne on the way to San Antonio. At SA the immigration guy 
> took one look, said “I don’t want to know”, and waved me through. Gale in the 
> meanwhile had found the top micro surgeon in the country with the aid of our 
> next door neighbor who is a friend of an associate of the surgeon Dr. 
> Fernando Levaro. Gale picked me up in SA and we drove to Houston. Within 10 
> minutes of walking into his office we were meeting with Dr. Levaro and within 
> 1 hr I was in surgery. The surgery lasted 6 hours. I can’t say enough good 
> things about this guy. He’s by the way one if those Mexicans they’re sending 
> us. At the follow up today he told me he expected me to get back to close to 
> 90% function. Skin grafts, nerve repair, tendons, bone fractures, vessel 
> repair, and evidently I learned Spanish because I was speaking it while I was 
> under anesthesia. I can’t begin to express the gratitude I have for every 
> person I came across in the last two days, both friends and strangers. I’d 
> post photo, but I’m not that cruel.
> 21 Comments
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
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[Texascavers] Bill's tale

[Charles Loving]

So I guess it’s time to tell this story. Wednesday afternoon I was happily
finishing up on a shaper , think of big router, the last few wooden pieces
of the doors and windows for our home in Mexico and looking forward to
gluing them all up and being a big step towards completing the house. A
millisecond later I was unbelievably looking at a ruined right hand. A few
minutes later after doing my best to staunch the blood flow I was at the
clinic in Real. The doctor on duty took one look and said hospital in
Matehuala an hour away. I stopped on the way out of town at a friends
house. Luckily she was home and her boyfriend and she drove me to the
hospital. Basically they sewed up a couple of arteries and assayed the
damage, by the way with no painkillers . I guess just trying to see how
tough I am. The doctor said I would need to go to a specialist in Saltillo
or San Luis Potosí. They gave me antibiotics, pain meds, and a tetanus
shot. When we left the hospital my friends boyfriend asked if I’d prefer to
fly back to Texas. He offered to fly me in his Fairchild turbo prop. My
response to this was, “You’ve got a plane?” Totally unassuming man and now
a saint . He arranged for an employee to meet us halfway to Saltillo. This
man drove me to a Holiday Inn where we had reservations. I walked in the
lobby looking like someone out of a Quentin Tarentino movie. Complete with
cartels and sicarios. The desk clerk looked up and said NO ROOMS, I
protested that I had a reservation. NO ROOMS!! We got the same response
across the street at a Hampton. At the next one I gave Juan my wallet and
said, “This time you get the room and I’ll go in s side door.” I ended up
having to go to a hospital in Saltillo because I started hemorrhaging again
during the night. The next morning the driver picked me up and after a stop
at Walmart to buy clothes,of course they didn’t fit anyway, by 8:30 we were
airborne on the way to San Antonio. At SA the immigration guy took one
look, said “I don’t want to know”, and waved me through. Gale in the
meanwhile had found the top micro surgeon in the country with the aid of
our next door neighbor who is a friend of an associate of the surgeon Dr.
Fernando Levaro. Gale picked me up in SA and we drove to Houston. Within 10
minutes of walking into his office we were meeting with Dr. Levaro and
within 1 hr I was in surgery. The surgery lasted 6 hours. I can’t say
enough good things about this guy. He’s by the way one if those Mexicans
they’re sending us. At the follow up today he told me he expected me to get
back to close to 90% function. Skin grafts, nerve repair, tendons, bone
fractures, vessel repair, and evidently I learned Spanish because I was
speaking it while I was under anesthesia. I can’t begin to express the
gratitude I have for every person I came across in the last two days, both
friends and strangers. I’d post photo, but I’m not that cruel.
21 Comments






-- 
Charlie Loving
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