Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Stop all the carping it leads nowhere positive. Oldman Wisdom did the UTG Newsletter in the olden days and never spelled a word right but no one cared it was the document that counted. On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Bennett Lee via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > I have written more articles for the Texas Caver in the past 5 years than > any other person. More importantly, I have also offered to assist in > proofreading dozens of times over the years to numerous people, but no one > has gotten me involved in proofing the final version for many years now. > And now we have an issue that has MULTIPLE ERRORS ON THE COVER. If anyone > thinks Jerry is being “hateful” because he is resting on his legacy rather > than offering his proofing capabilities, then let me say as someone who has > offered—and continues to offer—to proofread, multiple blatant errors on the > cover is completely unacceptable. > > > > And for the record, I was the editor of the LAG News for the Lubbock Area > Grotto back in the early 90s. I have a minor in Technical Writing, and a > B.S. in Computer Science. I have too many other large, time-consuming > projects for the Bexar Grotto and TCMA to be the actual editor, but I would > be a huge benefit to the Texas Caver even in a limited proofreading role. > > > > If you want to shut me up about blatant errors, then let me help proof. I > can’t guarantee I’ll catch every error, but at least then I’ll be one the > people blamed instead of one of the people complaining. > > > > --Bennett > > > > > > *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On > Behalf Of *Fritz Holt via Texascavers > *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 4:24 PM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) > > > > Jerry, > > Having met several times over the last eleven years (became active again > in the caving (spelunking) community in 2005), I feel I know you as a > friend. I enjoy The Texas Caver when I can find one but will leave the > current "discussion" to you and others. I will say I like your responses to > the allegations. Keep up the intelligent conversation. I will probably > regret sending this, (not really). > > Fritz Holt > > fritz...@gmail.com > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Jerry via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > RK, > > As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite > a bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your > Texas Cavers. > > As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver > of late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it > goes to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one > doesn't know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and > the editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from > several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to > beat their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic > encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it. > > Jerry Atkinson (old coon). > > > > -Original Message- > From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers > To: texascavers > Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) > > Jerry, > > > > You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called > chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account > old coon. > > > > You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas > Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. > > > > RK > > > > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> > > > > _ > From: via Texascavers > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) > To: > Cc: > > I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or > climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. > > > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > Jerry, > > > > It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver > when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. > Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. > > > &g
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
I have written more articles for the Texas Caver in the past 5 years than any other person. More importantly, I have also offered to assist in proofreading dozens of times over the years to numerous people, but no one has gotten me involved in proofing the final version for many years now. And now we have an issue that has MULTIPLE ERRORS ON THE COVER. If anyone thinks Jerry is being “hateful” because he is resting on his legacy rather than offering his proofing capabilities, then let me say as someone who has offered—and continues to offer—to proofread, multiple blatant errors on the cover is completely unacceptable. And for the record, I was the editor of the LAG News for the Lubbock Area Grotto back in the early 90s. I have a minor in Technical Writing, and a B.S. in Computer Science. I have too many other large, time-consuming projects for the Bexar Grotto and TCMA to be the actual editor, but I would be a huge benefit to the Texas Caver even in a limited proofreading role. If you want to shut me up about blatant errors, then let me help proof. I can’t guarantee I’ll catch every error, but at least then I’ll be one the people blamed instead of one of the people complaining. --Bennett From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Fritz Holt via Texascavers Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 4:24 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) Jerry, Having met several times over the last eleven years (became active again in the caving (spelunking) community in 2005), I feel I know you as a friend. I enjoy The Texas Caver when I can find one but will leave the current "discussion" to you and others. I will say I like your responses to the allegations. Keep up the intelligent conversation. I will probably regret sending this, (not really). Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com<mailto:fritz...@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Jerry via Texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: RK, As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your Texas Cavers. As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it. Jerry Atkinson (old coon). -Original Message- From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> To: texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) Jerry, You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon. You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. RK Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> _ From: via Texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) To: mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> Cc: mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: Jerry, It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. RK Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers"mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolade
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Jerry, Having met several times over the last eleven years (became active again in the caving (spelunking) community in 2005), I feel I know you as a friend. I enjoy The Texas Caver when I can find one but will leave the current "discussion" to you and others. I will say I like your responses to the allegations. Keep up the intelligent conversation. I will probably regret sending this, (not really). Fritz Holt fritz...@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Jerry via Texascavers > wrote: > > RK, > > As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a > bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your > Texas Cavers. > > As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of > late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes > to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't > know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the > editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from > several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat > their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic > encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it. > > Jerry Atkinson (old coon). > > -Original Message- > From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers > To: texascavers > Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) > > Jerry, > > You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic > traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon. > > You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas > Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. > > RK > > Get Outlook for iOS > > _________ > From: via Texascavers > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) > To: > Cc: > > > I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or > climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers > wrote: > > Jerry, > > It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when > you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit > before you embarrass yourself any more. > > RK > > Get Outlook for iOS > > > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via > Texascavers" wrote: > > What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly > edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone > to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true > apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit > where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a > defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve > accolades, not the editor. > > Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an > officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than > send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of > a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. > > And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, > edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past > editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been > involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how > things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr > work. > > You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just > putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs > required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others > before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some > years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups > together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of > the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has > been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask > me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the > inability to get
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Jerry, To channel old 'copperknob', insulting Heather means you have no heart, insulting me means you have no brain. But I am very sober this morning, and you are still very ugly inside. Stop insulting people, you are not helping yourself or TSA by doing so. If you don't like the caver, volunteer to help the editor or take over it's duties in the future. RK Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:41 AM -0500, "Jerry via Texascavers" wrote: RK, As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your Texas Cavers. As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it. Jerry Atkinson (old coon). -Original Message- From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers To: texascavers Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) Jerry, You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon. You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. RK Get Outlook for iOS _ From: via Texascavers Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) To: Cc: I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers wrote: Jerry, It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. RK Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" wrote: What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the editor. Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work. You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and applause even for a poor job
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
RK, As usual, you speak without knowledge. This old coon has contributed quite a bit but you probably don't bother to find these things out nor read your Texas Cavers. As for contributing little, I assume you are referring to the Texas Caver of late. I would be more than happy to proofread the print copy before it goes to the printer, but that's been rather difficult recently when one doesn't know if the Texas Caver actually is alive and who is in charge, and the editor in the past has ignored the advice that has been given her from several folks that actually have experience editing. Coons don't like to beat their heads against the wall too often, - leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) as you call it. Jerry Atkinson (old coon). -Original Message- From: Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers To: texascavers Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) Jerry, You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon. You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. RK Get Outlook for iOS _ From: via Texascavers Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) To: Cc: I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers wrote: Jerry, It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. RK Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" wrote: What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the editor. Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work. You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to put into their work. This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're watching. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers wrote: Wow Jerry. Thanks for being y
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Jerry, You have been hitting your head with rocks for too long, it's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), time to hang up your email account old coon. You insult supporters of Texas caving causes, then go on rants about Texas Caver where you contribute little. Just become one with the earth. RK Get Outlook for iOS _ From: via Texascavers Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?) To: Cc: I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers wrote: Jerry, It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. RK Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" wrote: What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the editor. Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work. You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to put into their work. This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're watching. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers wrote: Wow Jerry. Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding). Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group. -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers wrote: I am in awe. Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that "Haule"is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the municipality of O
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Please either elucidate or climb back under that rock you tried to hit me with on the Powell's gate. Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 15, 2016, at 4:45 AM, Rafal Kedzierski via Texascavers wrote: > Jerry, > > It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when > you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit > before you embarrass yourself any more. > > RK > > Get Outlook for iOS > > > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" > wrote: > > What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly > edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone > to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true > apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit > where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a > defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve > accolades, not the editor. > > Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an > officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than > send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of > a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. > > And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, > edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past > editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been > involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how > things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr > work. > > You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just > putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs > required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others > before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some > years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups > together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of > the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has > been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask > me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the > inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in > informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have > received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr > after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. > > And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, > you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part > of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit > and applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to > want to put into their work. > > This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and > hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came > before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're > watching. > > Jerry Atkinson. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers > wrote: > >> Wow Jerry. Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who >> has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers >> positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with >> something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their >> butts off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out >> that people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, >> just to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies >> that most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding). >> >> Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group. >> >> >> -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. >> >> >> >> On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers >> wrote: >> >>> I am in awe. >>> >>> Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin >>> to return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find >>> that "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the >>> municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands >>> >>> I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly >>> all these years. And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of >>> some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least >>> there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike >>> most of the other
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Jerry, It's poor form for you to blaming others for appearance of Texas Caver when you have taken no responsibility for your past leadership failures. Quit before you embarrass yourself any more. RK Get Outlook for iOS On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:08 AM -0500, "via Texascavers" wrote: What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the editor. Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work. You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to put into their work. This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're watching. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers wrote: > Wow Jerry. Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who > has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers > positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with > something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts > off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that > people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just > to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that > most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding). > > Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group. > > > -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. > > > > On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers > wrote: > >> I am in awe. >> >> Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to >> return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that >> "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the >> municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands >> >> I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly >> all these years. And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of >> some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least >> there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike >> most of the other articles. >> >> I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put >> forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles >> in the future despite this issue. >> >> Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before >> TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !" If the polished trappings >> and fancy layout are the reasons for the bargain basement e
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
What you ought to be pissed off about is waiting a year for a really poorly edited TxCvr, when anyone that really cared about their job would have gone to extreme effort to put together the very best issue they could as a true apology for the transgressions of the past. And for the record, I gave credit where credit was due: the authors who bothered to send in articles to a defunct Cvr even if they didn't know it would be published. They deserve accolades, not the editor. Sorry you find it hateful to call a spade a spade. Perhaps when you were an officer of the TSA, you could have helped correct the situation rather than send nasty emails to those that are disgusted with the lackluster results of a TSA that apologizes rather than acts when there is a serious problem. And as a lesson to history, I have put in my time as an officer of the TSA, edited the TxCvr, and published the Activities Newsletter when another past editor did not perform. I've attended TSA meetings for over 40 years and been involved in and led TSA projects. Don't even try to give me a lesson on how things work and the sacrifices involved with making both the TSA and TxCvr work. You, at least in the past as an officer, were responsible for not just putting on a Convention, attending meetings, and doing the miscellaneous jobs required by the office, but also carrying on a legacy established by others before you. The thousands of days and hours of work by others over 50 some years to create an organization that brought the various caving groups together, made them want to contribute to the greater good, and create one of the best caving publications in the country, is that legacy. That legacy has been increasingly squandered in the recent past to the point that folks ask me what difference the TSA makes nowadays. I try to defend the TSA but the inability to get a TxCvr out for a year, the lack of transparency in informing the membership of the situation, and the type of response I have received from you for voicing disgust at a well meant but poorly edited TxCvr after so long a hiatus, make it difficult. And if you think folks don't notice those glaring errors on the front cover, you must really have a low opinion of their expectations. Maybe that's part of our problem. Just getting by is apparently the norm, one must give credit and applause even for a poor job, and the lack of pride that folks seem to want to put into their work. This may sound like nasty, hateful, talk and make you want to run away and hide, but it's time for the TSA to stand up and be counted. Those that came before you carried the water for many years. Now it's your turn and we're watching. Jerry Atkinson. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers wrote: > Wow Jerry. Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who > has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers > positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with > something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts > off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that > people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just > to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that > most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding). > > Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group. > > > -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. > > > > On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers > wrote: > >> I am in awe. >> >> Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to >> return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that >> "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the >> municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands >> >> I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly >> all these years. And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of >> some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least >> there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike >> most of the other articles. >> >> I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put >> forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles >> in the future despite this issue. >> >> Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before >> TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !" If the polished trappings >> and fancy layout are the reasons for the bargain basement editing, >> proofreading, and publication delays, let's consider going back to xerox >> copies with corner staples that are timely and actually appear to have been >> published by an organization that gave a hoot. >> >> Jerry Atkinson. >> >> >> -Original Message- >>
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
Wow Jerry. Thanks for being yet another hateful caver "family member" who has nothing nice to say, yet can't keep their mouth shut, who never offers positive criticism or maybe an offer to help those who need assistance with something they are new at doing. Sorry that so many people worked their butts off aside from their normal jobs and families to get a publication out that people have been griping about not getting, but not helping to produce, just to make you focus on spelling errors and publication inconsistencies that most people don't know about (yet don't get help finding). Man, I'm so glad to be a part of this group. -sincerely, your pissed off former secretary. > On Oct 14, 2016, at 9:12 PM, Jerry via Texascavers > wrote: > > I am in awe. > > Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to > return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that > "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the municipality > of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands > > I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly > all these years. And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of some > unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least there were > photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike most of the > other articles. > > I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put > forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles > in the future despite this issue. > > Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before > TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !" If the polished trappings and > fancy layout are the reasons for the bargain basement editing, proofreading, > and publication delays, let's consider going back to xerox copies with corner > staples that are timely and actually appear to have been published by an > organization that gave a hoot. > > Jerry Atkinson. > > > -Original Message- > From: Ellie Falgout > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 12:14 pm > Subject: Texas Caver Magazine Ready > > TSA Members, > > The long awaited Texas Caver Magazine is printed and also available online in > the members area http://www.cavetexas.org/members/index.php. I am bringing > the printed magazines to TCR tonight and will have them at the Friday Wine > Tasting and from then on I will probably leave them at registration. The > magazines will finally be available at the TSA members meeting on Sunday, > October 16th at 9am. I will mail any magazines that remain after TCR. > > Thanks to Jill for all your hard work on the magazine. Thanks to Linda Palit > and Niki Lake for helping get the magazine ready from the printer. > > Hope to see you at TCR! > > Ellie > ___ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Magazine Ready (for what...?)
I am in awe. Just a quick perusal of the cover says it all. I'll be waiting for Marvin to return from his time machine trip to 2105. And for grins, I did find that "Haule" is a village consisting of about 610 inhabitants in the municipality of Ooststellingwerf in the east of Friesland in the Netherlands I was astounded to find that I have been spelling "flow stone" incorrectly all these years. And who authored the "Forged in Fire" photo montage of some unknown cave(s) somewhere in Hawaii at some unknown date. At least there were photo captions identifying the people, if not the cave, unlike most of the other articles. I did enjoy the articles, and I appreciate the effort that the authors put forward for the enjoyment of us all. I hope you continue to submit articles in the future despite this issue. Really, folks, I understand that you all wanted to get this issue out before TCR and were probably rushed, but "Damn !" If the polished trappings and fancy layout are the reasons for the bargain basement editing, proofreading, and publication delays, let's consider going back to xerox copies with corner staples that are timely and actually appear to have been published by an organization that gave a hoot. Jerry Atkinson. -Original Message- From: Ellie Falgout To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 12:14 pm Subject: Texas Caver Magazine Ready TSA Members, The long awaited Texas Caver Magazine is printed and also available online in the members area http://www.cavetexas.org/members/index.php. I am bringing the printed magazines to TCR tonight and will have them at the Friday Wine Tasting and from then on I will probably leave them at registration. The magazines will finally be available at the TSA members meeting on Sunday, October 16th at 9am. I will mail any magazines that remain after TCR. Thanks to Jill for all your hard work on the magazine. Thanks to Linda Palit and Niki Lake for helping get the magazine ready from the printer. Hope to see you at TCR! Ellie ___ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/ http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
