[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[BurningTreeC]

>
> Ciao Simon,
>
> I mean, simply, different TW illustrating the different aspects. For 
> instance AUTO-POPULATE is brilliant but likely best in a TW orientated to 
> that end (e.g. image gallery, or bulk Tweet rep). If its mixed in with 
> other stuff it gets confusing. BUT the gizmos do illuminate what 
> TiddlyTouch can do so are worth having---though probably not all at once. 
>

> I can give more examples but I think you'll get what I'm getting at 
> without that.
>

yep, I got it! the auto-populate is something that needs to be used 
carefully because having 100 tiddlers open slows the wiki down and you 
won't like to use it - on TiddlyDesktop though tiddlers out of the viewport 
get handled differently as I experienced and there it'd be fine, though 
there with muuri it doesn't work that well because they somehow get removed 
from the cache or I don't know and muuri doesn't handle them until you 
scroll them into view. Anyway, that's something different.

The auto-populate should be done with performance in mind. I think about 
using lightweight viewtemplates for auto-population. I'll definitely bring 
that back to muritest but I'd like to do it in a way that is not only nice 
but also performant.

>
> I hope you will keep a place for muuri WITHIN a tiddler. That matches well 
> many use cases.
>

Yes, the muuri widget needs some work, not much, then I'll document its 
usage. 

>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> BurningTreeC wrote:
>>
>> Josiah, what do you mean with "probably better whole custom-grid 
>> TiddlyWiki than all together"? 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[PMario]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:41:56 PM UTC+1, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I noticed that several main contributors of original stuff are UNconcerned 
> with licensing.
>

Yea, ... I like those "I don't care, do what ever you want" licenses. ... 

BUT why should I care about code, that was created with a "I don't care" 
sentiment.

I don't!
-m

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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[PMario]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 6:41:56 PM UTC+1, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
... 

> TBH, since no one here is known or cared for, so what is the Ultimate 
> Difference?
>

I think, adding an open source license to my code, just shows everyone, who 
is interested to read, use and modify the code, how it is intended to be 
used, now and in the future.

Adding an open source license grants everyone, rights in advance. So there 
is no need to waste time and money, to find out, what is allowed and what 
not. ...

Is this a hot sweat over nothing? :-)
>

No. IMO Linux  wouldn't be 
successful, without GPL. GPL allows everyone to commercially use the 
software, but it also forces everyone to release modified source code with 
the same license. Only this behaviour keeps the software open and available 
to everyone. 

A little bit of history: 
http://www.channelfutures.com/open-source/brief-history-free-and-open-source-software-licensing
 


Because we have open source licenses, attached to a very large portion of 
commodities, we consider for granted, there seems to be no problems, 
without open source licenses. ... Just image a world where the majority of 
the internet would be based on proprietary licenses only. 

have fun!
mario

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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[PMario]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 4:08:30 PM UTC+1, BurningTreeC wrote:
 

> I can live well with the MIT license on this. I forgot to include the 
> other licenses in the plugin, they will be there in the next release. 
> popmotion also uses MIT,
> the Icons though, they're material icons with Apache 2 license and as the 
> lazy student I am I saw the license and instantly I knew that it's too long 
> for me to read ;)
>

Just put a link to the apache 2 license of the 3rd party project into your 
project. That's enough. Don't include the whole license text ... It's bloat.

-m

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[tw] Re: WaterFox + TiddlyFox = OK?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Brilliant pointer for sophisticated longer survival  ...

Mark S...  One (or more) of the extensions that you could get for Firefox 
> was one to change the browser identification string presented to web sites.
>

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[tw] Re: WaterFox + TiddlyFox = OK?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

If you're sticking with an older browser, then you should probably be 
downloading extensions left and right while you can still get them! 

One (or more) of the extensions that you could get for Firefox was one to 
change the browser identification string presented to web sites.  Possibly 
search for "user-agent".

-- Mark

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 11:04:14 AM UTC-8, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Will access to certain websites be restricted for browsers that does not?
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Simon,

I mean, simply, different TW illustrating the different aspects. For 
instance AUTO-POPULATE is brilliant but likely best in a TW orientated to 
that end (e.g. image gallery, or bulk Tweet rep). If its mixed in with 
other stuff it gets confusing. BUT the gizmos do illuminate what 
TiddlyTouch can do so are worth having---though probably not all at once. 

I can give more examples but I think you'll get what I'm getting at without 
that.

I hope you will keep a place for muuri WITHIN a tiddler. That matches well 
many use cases. 

Best wishes
Josiah

BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> Josiah, what do you mean with "probably better whole custom-grid 
> TiddlyWiki than all together"? 
>

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[tw] Re: Single Tiddler storyview?

[stefct4]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:20:43 PM UTC+1, ste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Of course, this won't work with links from within your tiddlers. In this 
> case, the other tiddlers will remain open, unless you use the code from 
> above for all your internal links.
>

One additional thought: Is there a way to (optionally!) enable this 
behavior for all internal links (to close all other tiddlers whenever a 
link is clicked)? Such an option would allow people to remove the "close" 
button from the view toolbar (and prevent anyone from accidentally ending 
up with an empty screen). 

Cheers,

Stef

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[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[BurningTreeC]

>
>
> I'm looking and will comment in a couple of days after I played with it.
>
> One  point I can make right away is that the various "gizmos" you took out 
> for this version---I understand why--however, for a new user, they are 
> extremely helpful in illustrating what it can do.
>
> I guess with a few complete examples (probably better whole custom-grid 
> TiddlyWiki than all together?) I sincerely believe the potential will be 
> much better understood.
>

Josiah, what do you mean with "probably better whole custom-grid TiddlyWiki 
than all together"? 

Simon

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[tw] Re: Single Tiddler storyview?

[stefct4]

Hi,

On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 5:59:17 PM UTC+1, TheDiveO wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a single tiddler storyview and I'm aware of the "zoomin" 
> storyview. I've experimented with the zoomin storyview, but I see some 
> obstacles to my particular usecase. 
>

In addition to the suggestions from others, here are a few "hacks" I could 
think of:

1.) Replace the "close" button with the "home" button in your view toolbar 
(and make your start tiddler the "home" tiddler, obviously).
2.) Build a custom sidebar menu with something like the following code (it 
will close all other tiddlers whenever one of the links is clicked):

<$list filter="[tag[Contents]]">
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink">
<$action-navigate $to={{!!title}}/>
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-close-other-tiddlers" 
$param={{!!title}}/> 
{{!!title}}




Of course, this won't work with links from within your tiddlers. In this 
case, the other tiddlers will remain open, unless you use the code from 
above for all your internal links.

Cheers,

Stef

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[tw] Re: WaterFox + TiddlyFox = OK?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Birthe

I don't think so. Not shorter term. I don't think its an issue.

J.

 Birthe C wrote:
>
> Will access to certain websites be restricted for browsers that does not?
>

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Re: [tw] Re: Single Tiddler storyview?

[TheDiveO]

Hi Jeremy,

that sounds very much like what I would like to achieve! Like other have 
replied here, I very much prefer your second approach, and for the same 
reasons you list. Overloading close button semantic doesn't sound right for 
something that's not intended to be a quick hack. As for the message: this 
looks like a navigation message, not a tiddler-related message. So 
"tm-navigation-back" sounds more apt to me. And it rings the tm-navigation 
bell.

Best regards,
TheDiveO

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 9:48:32 PM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi TheDiveO
>
> It would be useful to have a proper single tiddler view. As you say, the 
> key problem with the current zoomin view is the way that tiddlers other 
> than the top one are still rendered, and hence impact performance.
>
> We already have a precedent for attributes that customise the behaviour of 
> the navigator widget. For the features you’ve described we could add two 
> new attributes:
>
> * singleTiddlerMode: “yes” causes the navigation handling to replace the 
> entire story list with the target tiddler, instead of inserting it in the 
> list
> * openPreviousOnClose: “yes” causes the "close tiddler" handling to also 
> re-open the previous tiddler in the history list, and pop it from the 
> history list
>
> A completely different approach would be to instead introduce a new “back” 
> button in the tiddler toolbar as an alternative alongside the existing 
> “close” button. It would send a “tm-back-tiddler” (?) message that would be 
> handled by the navigator widget. It would respond by replacing the story 
> list with the top title from the history list, and popping it from the 
> history list.
>
> I think I prefer the second approach because it avoids overloading the 
> semantics of the “close” button; and with the modified behaviour we’re 
> considering it would never actually close a tiddler.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
> On 21 Jan 2018, at 17:42, TheDiveO  
> wrote:
>
> A more detailed analysis of the TW5 core shows that the story river 
> ($:/StoryList) is managed (at least) in two different places. One is the 
> <$navigator> widget in the page template. The other place is a startup 
> module that registers itself with any URL change events. This module then 
> rewrites $:/StoryList whenever the URL changes its hash part, indicating 
> which tiddlers to open. Luckily, this module also has a 
> th-opening-default-tiddlers-list 
> hook that allows changing or overwriting the story list before it gets 
> activated.
>
> As for the navigator widget, I'm afraid that I need to modify it in place 
> using some bad bad module; in particular, I need to modify its 
> saveStoryList and addToStory functions. Not nice.
>
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>
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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[@TiddlyTweeter]

One of the licences missing in the discussion is the "I Don't Want A 
License License" :-).

I noticed that several main contributors of original stuff are UNconcerned 
with licensing.

TBH, since no one here is known or cared for, so what is the Ultimate 
Difference?

Is this a hot sweat over nothing? :-)

Just a prod
Josiah

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[tw] Re: Please send me links to your themes, adaptations, plugins, macros, etc

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Twederation is a pipe dream for this. Its not ready.

IMO, I think that a plugin architecture could build in "Announcement" that 
is neutral on its specific sponsor.

The point is to GET ON WITH IT before we all expire.

Josiah

Ste Wilson wrote:
>
> I think that should be be an opt out option on the getting started tiddler 
> along with twederation (once the unique date thing is sorted ;)) so that 
> the community links and grows. 

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[tw] Re: Please send me links to your themes, adaptations, plugins, macros, etc

[Ste Wilson]

I think that should be be an opt out option on the getting started tiddler 
along with twederation (once the unique date thing is sorted ;)) so that the 
community links and grows. 

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[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[BurningTreeC]

Hello Josiah,

the gizmos will live on in the "AddOns" section and on the demo page, which 
is now using the new plugin version an gets the gizmos back one by one. 
I've changed many small things in the meantime, so some things need to be 
updated in those tiddlers, too

Generally, I want to use the demo page to play and demonstrate, and the 
plugin page for the docs and the plugin itself
though I don't know if I'll keep the pages on tiddlyspot, I should probably 
switch to something else

Simon

Am Montag, 22. Januar 2018 12:32:09 UTC+1 schrieb @TiddlyTweeter:
>
> Ciao Simon
>
> I'm looking and will comment in a couple of days after I played with it.
>
> One  point I can make right away is that the various "gizmos" you took out 
> for this version---I understand why--however, for a new user, they are 
> extremely helpful in illustrating what it can do.
>
> I guess with a few complete examples (probably better whole custom-grid 
> TiddlyWiki than all together?) I sincerely believe the potential will be 
> much better understood.
>
> Great stuff ...
>
> Later
> Josiah
>

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[tw] Re: Please send me links to your themes, adaptations, plugins, macros, etc

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Dave

Like the Reddit Effort to list plugins... 
https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/wiki/pluginsandresources

... you are illustrating the NEED for TiddlyWiki to CENTRALISE plugins. FOR 
TIDDLYWIKI to get USED MORE. A huge amount of its utility is in PLUGINS. 
They are still second-class citizens at the moment. They should not be.

The single issue that you have, as one person, is that you can't have 
knowledge of all the intricacies that come up.

I can tell you that in some cases (no names) you posted links that were 
already updated in discussions in GG. 

I think this a serious issue. One that your work illustrates. Your work 
REALLY HELPS.

In the longer term we need a better solution. 

Erwan did make a harvester that worked IF you signed up to it: 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#TWCommunitySearch. It wasn't used much. Why not? 
Maybe people don't even know it exists? Same problem.

MY opinion on this is that Plugins SHOULD BROADCAST their existence. And 
that some system pick them up.

It would be as hell of a lot easier in the end.

Just thoughts
Josiah

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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[PMario]

Hi, it's me .. Mario.

Hope I'm also allowed to respond ;)

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so the following comments reflect my personal 
opinion and may be wrong ;)

 

> I've recently made a plugin for TiddlyWiki (tiddlytouch.tiddlyspot.com 
> )
>  
> and added an MIT license.
>

You added MIT to version 0.1.1 ... So this version will stay with this 
license for ever. It's published, and if somoene uses this version, they 
can do with it, what MIT allows them. ... every thing including commercial 
use. 

Now I'm thinking about what would be the proper license choice for my 
> plugin.
>

IMO MIT is a propper open souce license for the code, that you developed, 
since most of the 3rd party libs also use MIT. ... Most ... not all.

In your license tiddler, you forgot to mention that the plugin / package 
also contains other libraries, that have their own license. Links to the 
other tiddlers are OK.
eg: 

 - muuri.js ... The MIT license, is included in the source, which is OK. 
 - hammer.js ... MIT license-link is part of the source ... OK

 - popmotion.js ... license is missing ... You should insert a link. If 
it's MIT the link is optional. If it uses a different license, chances are 
high, that the link is needed!

 - web-animations.js ... http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 ... You 
probably must provide the readable source code, if someone requests it. So 
IMO linking to the source will save you trouble, if you didn't modify it. 
If you did modify the surce code, you need to point to the source you used. 

- $:/plugins/BTC/tiddly-touch/icons ... If you made them, they are included 
in your license statement. ... If they come from 3rd parties, the info may 
be missing. .. I didn't have a closer look. .. Just wanted to mention, that 
most 3rd party icons have licenses too. 

 

> There's the BSD-2 license or the MIT license, what if people get 
> interested of using it in a commercial project?
>

BSD-2 and MIT both allow commercial use. 
 

> I'm thinking about what's the right way to handle this, given that I don't 
> have many experiences in developing/releasing/licensing software
>

It's hard to say. ... It's your choice. 

---

I can just tell you, what I personally look for, if I use 3rd party libs or 
tiddlywiki plugins

 - Are they still active and maintained
- If no, I search for a different one
- If yes I go on checking

 - Do they fit to the tiddlywiki.com license ... BSD-3 or compatible.

 - If they use a license that isn't compatible, ... I look for a different 
project, with the same functionality.

   - If there is no such project, search the discussion forum, if other 
licenses are already requested
 - Some authors already denied to change the license. So it wouldn't 
make much sense to request it again
 - except the denial is > 2 years ago. They may have changed their 
opinion in the mean time.
   - Asking in a polite way, is free and doesn't hurt ;)

   - If there is no such project, try to contact the author, if they want 
to change the license. 
 - If yes .. OK
 - If no ... Try to include the 3rd party lib as modular and decoupled 
as possible. So it can stay with it's license, but doesn't affect the 
plugin license. 


TiddlyWiki can use a "per tiddler license", which I think is complete 
overkill. Except, if you have to argue, with "hard core" GPL advocates. 

just my 2 cents
have fun!
mario

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Re: [tw] Re: Single Tiddler storyview?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy & TheDiveO

I'm thinking here from the surface level of what would be useful to me.

Single (whole viewport) Tiddlers would seriously ease Slide Shows, Graphics 
Galleries, Presentations. 

I can't conceive of these without *Previous* & *Next* navigation buttons.

I DO understand these "effects" could be, and have been, achieved, in 
numerous ways. 

But I think there is much merit in simplifying things so its easier.

Best wishes
Josiah 

Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> It would be useful to have a proper single tiddler view. As you say, the 
> key problem with the current zoomin view is the way that tiddlers other 
> than the top one are still rendered, and hence impact performance.
>

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[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Simon

I'm looking and will comment in a couple of days after I played with it.

One  point I can make right away is that the various "gizmos" you took out 
for this version---I understand why--however, for a new user, they are 
extremely helpful in illustrating what it can do.

I guess with a few complete examples (probably better whole custom-grid 
TiddlyWiki than all together?) I sincerely believe the potential will be 
much better understood.

Great stuff ...

Later
Josiah

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[tw] How to transclude <>'s text or <$set> its text to a variable?

[hubertgk]

Hello,

Is there a way to transclude <>'s text or <$set> its text to 
a variable?

Since <> is short-lived, in that it's created on drag and 
destroyed on drop, I assume that transcluding and setting its text to a 
variable would need to be performed using some kind of an <$action> within 
the <$droppable> widget.

The problem I have is that I'm unable to transclude <> in 
any way at all, even in that short period of time when this tiddler exists.

I can manipulate the <> itself (set its fields etc) but not 
read anything from it. Is that by design or is there a way to pass 
<>'s text, fields etc further?

In the example code below I'm trying to set <>'s text to a 
tiddler called _temp, however in this way I'm only settings its title, 
because {{actionTiddler}} would not work:


\define OnDrop()
<$action-setfield $tiddler=_temp text=<>/>
\end

<$droppable actions=<>>
drop here




<>




Thank you in advance for your suggestions!

Regards,
-Hubert

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[tw] Re: [TiddlyTouch] 0.1.0 beta Release

[BurningTreeC]

>
> Simon,
>
> Love your work and look forward to the 0.1.2 that includes readme, docs 
> etc.  I am sure you are on top of it but just want to point out that for 
> TiddlyTouch and Muuri, understanding what can be achieved, its purpose and 
> function is only present in pieces in the discussion threads. Please ensure 
> you overview the solution from a "naive inquirer" perspective. I would be 
> happy to help once you have the other documentation because it can be 
> difficult as the author as its your baby and you know the solution 
> intimately it can be hard to imagine not knowing anything.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>

Thanks Tony,

I got your message and although documenting is quite a pain in the *ss I 
already planned to add a good and simple documentation
I appreciate your offer to help, it's very welcome. So as documentation 
evolves, I'll give your and all community member's comments an open ear as 
far as my time allows

That said - I'd like to thank all members that are participating here in 
this forum, sharing ideas and suggestions and helping others to improve 
their projects

cheers to Australia from Austria (the european Australia)
Simon

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[tw] Re: PSA: Please license your works

[BurningTreeC]

Hello Abraham,

I've recently made a plugin for TiddlyWiki (tiddlytouch.tiddlyspot.com) and 
added an MIT license.

Now I'm thinking about what would be the proper license choice for my 
plugin.


There's the BSD-2 license or the MIT license, what if people get interested 
of using it in a commercial project?

I'm thinking about what's the right way to handle this, given that I don't 
have many experiences in developing/releasing/licensing software

best wishes,
Simon

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