[tw5] Re: Is there an easy way for a MultiUser Tiddly Wiki?

[Charlie Veniot]

G'day Benedikt,

I know of no wiki that allows real simultaneous editing kind of 
collaboration like we would find simultaneously editing a Google Doc, for 
example.  (If you've never done that, it is really worth experiencing.  It 
is awesome.  Whether it be Google Docs or whatever else that has the same 
collaborative goodness.)

I'm pretty sure with every wiki product, you can easily run into one person 
unintentionally overwriting somebody else's edits.  Them are the breaks.

All of that aside, if you can get a techie to set you up with a small 
nodejs server with a TiddlyWiki, there are ways to setup some tricks to 
eliminate overwriting issues via mechanisms such that only the author of a 
tiddler can edit it, and everybody else can only enter comments, comments 
treated as task items which the author can act on to update a tiddler.

It is possible that TiddlyWiki is not the best way to go for collaborative 
project/knowledge/whatever management, and some other tool might be best 
for the job IF you don't need either of TiddlyWiki's transclusion or 
filtering capabilities.  To me, there is nothing out there that can come 
close to matching those two capabilities in TiddlyWiki.  (I can't imagine 
good project/knowledge/whatever management without transclusion à la 
TiddlyWiki.)

Notion might be worth looking at for the giggles.  I find it very nice in a 
"everthing-works-out-of-the-box(?)" way.  Transclusion is "okay".  Could be 
a way for multiple folk to collaborate on the next versions of the tiddlers 
in your TiddlyWiki, which one person "owns" (re responsibility of updating 
it).  Or maybe some kind of frankenbeast-marrying of the one TiddlyWiki 
with Notion (or something else, whether online or local-network.)





On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4 benedikt@web.de 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm using TiddlyWiki for some years as my personal knowledge-base and I 
> love it.
>
> I'm also a member of a community for Multiprojektmanagement. I've shown my 
> TiddlyWiki to my peers and they like it. 
> Now we have the idea to use Tiddly Wiki as our shared knowledge-base. 
> Is there an easy way for setting up a Multiuser TiddlyWiki where everyone 
> can read and write, in best case simultaneously?
>
> I found Tiddlyhost - but it seems that only the owner can save changes.
> I read about a MultiUser-Plugin for Node-js. But we are no "techis" and 
> have no idea how to set up TiddlyWiki in a node.js.
> If I store it simply in a cloud and two users open the file, only the last 
> save is stored. The second user is not informed that someone else is 
> working on it.
>
> What we are looking for is a wiki, stored in a cloud like sharepoint, 
> onedrive, ... with Multiuser-Capabilities.
>
> Thanks for any ideas
>
> Benedikt
>

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[tw5] Re: Is there an easy way for a MultiUser Tiddly Wiki?

[TW Tones]

Benedikt

Can you raise This in https://talk.tiddlywiki.org ?

The true and mature multi-user "edit" method is the bob.exe and bob plugin 
methods, but this is currently behind in tiddlywiki releases. We may be 
able to upgrade the non-bob.exe to 5.2.1 manually but then you need to 
ensure its safe on your LAN or the internet.

I have done a lot of work on the serial editing method so one user checks 
out the wiki at a time but it is not published it yet.

TW_Tones

On Friday, 18 February 2022 at 02:24:17 UTC+11 benedikt@web.de wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm using TiddlyWiki for some years as my personal knowledge-base and I 
> love it.
>
> I'm also a member of a community for Multiprojektmanagement. I've shown my 
> TiddlyWiki to my peers and they like it. 
> Now we have the idea to use Tiddly Wiki as our shared knowledge-base. 
> Is there an easy way for setting up a Multiuser TiddlyWiki where everyone 
> can read and write, in best case simultaneously?
>
> I found Tiddlyhost - but it seems that only the owner can save changes.
> I read about a MultiUser-Plugin for Node-js. But we are no "techis" and 
> have no idea how to set up TiddlyWiki in a node.js.
> If I store it simply in a cloud and two users open the file, only the last 
> save is stored. The second user is not informed that someone else is 
> working on it.
>
> What we are looking for is a wiki, stored in a cloud like sharepoint, 
> onedrive, ... with Multiuser-Capabilities.
>
> Thanks for any ideas
>
> Benedikt
>

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Re: [tw5] Major updates to Chromium native file system saver plugin

[Frédéric Demers]

As inspiration, this seems to be a decent implementation of native file
storage API: https://bangle.io

On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 at 20:13, TW Tones  wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I believe this is already available on tiddlywiki.com at
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#Saving%20on%20Browser%20with%20File%20System%20Access%20API
>
> It is not yet comprehensively documented and it is hard for me to
> determine what level of functionality and customisation is available to us.
> As a solution only on Chromium browsers it is not yet global in
> application, so understanding its value is even harder to determine.
>
> I also ask myself "We require a click event to start the save dialogue" if
> this could not be placed in a save button "lookalike" or another way to
> make it user friendly. Ie just in time, not startup, Although in this
> thread others suggest they do not need it.
>
> Can someone write a user designer perspective and/or comparison with
> existing methods?
>
> My concerns;
>
>- How to design online tiddlywikis with a non-intrusive saving
>mechanism users can understand.
>- Dealing with the contention possible with two parties editing the
>same site.
>
> I would appreciate it is someone can spell this out a little more for us
> who need it, and can't easily understand this from the jargon and reading
> between the lines in this discussion.
>
> Thanks
> Tones
> On Wednesday, 9 February 2022 at 11:10:40 UTC+11 PMario wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I do like that option.
>> -mario
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:11:06 AM UTC+1 dyllon...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It does work, though I think it is disruptive asking as soon as
>>> something is done which triggers autosave. However, I have put in an option
>>> with version 0.7.1 to disable the modal for those who don't like it.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 1:46:16 AM UTC-8 PMario wrote:
>>>
 On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 12:54:25 AM UTC+1 brian@gmail.com
 wrote:
 ...

> Now with the indexdb entry re-populated, the sequence looks like this:
>
>1. Reload the TW page
>2. Click the + button to create a new tiddler
>3. Click the checkmark to save the tiddler
>4. A dialog box asks me if I want to let the site edit the file. I
>click the "edit file" button
>5. The file saves
>
> So it is working for me even without the settings modal. Do you see
> this same behavior?
>

 I also think the modal isn't needed. The API requires user interaction.
 ... But I think the described behaviour is good. The permission is
 requested, when the first save happens. Since this save is a user
 interaction it should be good enough.

 -mario

>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Major updates to Chromium native file system saver plugin

[TW Tones]

Folks,

I believe this is already available on tiddlywiki.com 
at 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#Saving%20on%20Browser%20with%20File%20System%20Access%20API

It is not yet comprehensively documented and it is hard for me to determine 
what level of functionality and customisation is available to us. As a 
solution only on Chromium browsers it is not yet global in application, so 
understanding its value is even harder to determine.

I also ask myself "We require a click event to start the save dialogue" if 
this could not be placed in a save button "lookalike" or another way to 
make it user friendly. Ie just in time, not startup, Although in this 
thread others suggest they do not need it.

Can someone write a user designer perspective and/or comparison with 
existing methods?

My concerns;

   - How to design online tiddlywikis with a non-intrusive saving mechanism 
   users can understand.
   - Dealing with the contention possible with two parties editing the same 
   site.

I would appreciate it is someone can spell this out a little more for us 
who need it, and can't easily understand this from the jargon and reading 
between the lines in this discussion.

Thanks
Tones
On Wednesday, 9 February 2022 at 11:10:40 UTC+11 PMario wrote:

> Hi,
> I do like that option. 
> -mario
>
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 12:11:06 AM UTC+1 dyllon...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> It does work, though I think it is disruptive asking as soon as something 
>> is done which triggers autosave. However, I have put in an option with 
>> version 0.7.1 to disable the modal for those who don't like it.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 1:46:16 AM UTC-8 PMario wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, February 6, 2022 at 12:54:25 AM UTC+1 brian@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
 Now with the indexdb entry re-populated, the sequence looks like this:

1. Reload the TW page
2. Click the + button to create a new tiddler
3. Click the checkmark to save the tiddler
4. A dialog box asks me if I want to let the site edit the file. I 
click the "edit file" button
5. The file saves

 So it is working for me even without the settings modal. Do you see 
 this same behavior?

>>>
>>> I also think the modal isn't needed. The API requires user interaction. 
>>> ... But I think the described behaviour is good. The permission is 
>>> requested, when the first save happens. Since this save is a user 
>>> interaction it should be good enough.
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>

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[tw5] MediaWiki TiddlyWiki Dokuwiki MoinMoin BookStack Gollum and other open source wiki progams - you don't p2p-swing it as you're supposed to, man

[Sergei Udris]

MediaWiki TiddlyWiki Dokuwiki MoinMoin BookStack Gollum and other open
source wiki progams - you don't p2p-swing it as you're supposed to,
man
  program peer-to-peer programs including unseen competitive games

now it's time for me to take apart your aching heart
  selling out Isengard Tower and garden by welcoming
money-donate-ads-coins-jobs-sponsor disease
Rey refuses to sell BB-8 for 60 portions in the desert - you do it
from comfy chairs in era of Internet
  siding with Chief Tui by accepting the island without peer-to-peer
games github twitch email
when Ocean himself helps Mona in p2p manner
  turning programs into projects like producers who push Nick Lang to
play Joe Gunn when he wants Ray Casanov part
  caging programs under user namespaces, making L3 furious - why?!
because you are my organic overlords?!
  nesting around one program and not programming games like proud Vulcan Academy
yet having shiny webpages, docs, chats and lengthy maintainer attributions
no wonder Spock left for Starfleet
  thank you, ministers, for your consideration - live long and prosper

soak it in cause it's the last you'll ever see
  honest as What the Health?
  if Eliud Kipchoge instead of breaking 2 hour barrier set up a
donation booth with a little throne in the middle of the track
  if Linus - inner Biff stole name Freax - agreed to join Steve Jobs
and Apple on that meeting when he first came to California
instead of keeping his word - free and open
  if torrent clients accepted Strickland-server-networks-only Hill
Valley instead of generating most traffic
  if Jesus instead of feeding 4000 started a bread-breaking
fund-raising how-else-economy-is-economy business together with elders
  even i would invite them to Realm of Monsters as dear co-owners

now i eat you so prepare your final plea
  even dust of open-source wiki programs we shake off of Buckbeak's hoofs
  but be sure - peer-to-peer programs including new competitive games
- are climbing like Honnold on El Sendero Luminosa
  no projects no experiments no docs and issue-discussions-scarthcing
on top of our heads
  no money-donate-ads-coins-jobs-sponsor deadly poison
  programs who are guests not workers
  alive and singing with their won voice like John Mayer Vultures at LA Live
  better than what Borg of money can collective-gram
  are flying towards target like Hawkeye's arrows along with Pat Brown
and Impossible Foods mission
  both will be served in vegan jars of
treasure-from-a-sunken-pirate-wreck parens ( )

you wish you were nice and shinyyy!


Jon Stewart: you cant just read the prompter?
Colbert: i'm reading the prompter in here (points to heart) - you can
read that pablum

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