[tw] New TW user perspective

[TiddlyNoob]

Hey everyone,

I'm a software developer and just started using TiddlyWiki a few days ago, 
and I would just like to share my perspective on it so far.

TW is fantastic, and I didn't even know something like this existed. I've 
had this almost subconscious feeling for years now that I needed to have 
some kind of easy workflow for documentation, not only for work, but for my 
life in general. I have been looking for a mixture between wiki, blog, and 
journal solutions using markup syntax like markdown, but completely 
private, version controlled, and stored in text files.

Even after only a few days I'm fully convinced TW is the answer I've been 
looking for. Right now I'm running it on nodejs using TW folders, not 
single file, and using a git repo for syncing/backing up/version control.

With that said, here are some of my concerns or just some of my particular 
needs/assumptions:

   - TW is extremely powerful and flexible, and the software dev side of me 
   wants to over engineer it. However, my main objective is to document my 
   life in a form that is as technology platform independent as possible, as 
   close to just plain text files as possible, so that I don't rely on TW 
   still being around 30 years from now, or rely on remembering how to 
   use/maintain the infrastructure I created. So while macros, variables, 
   plugins, etc. are all very interesting and powerful, I want to limit these 
   as much as possible, and just use the built in markup language (WikiText) 
   and the regular tagging/linking system.
   - The tagging system is great, but the fact that titles of tiddlers are 
   unique identifiers is taking a while for me to get used to. I'm anxious 
   every time I create a new tiddler because I feel like I need to put a lot 
   of thought in to the title, knowing that it has to be unique, but also 
   easily referenced via a link or tag. 
   - Part of my anxiety from above has to do with trying to fit everything 
   in my life (wiki, journal, to-do lists, etc) in one TW, and thus the titles 
   take on even more importance because as I add things for the next 20 years, 
   it still needs to be organized, and every title needs to be unique. I could 
   use multiple TW's, however then I lose the ability to link between concepts 
   across multiple TW's, and trying to update TW and keeping a consistent set 
   of plugins, macros, etc across multiple TW's would be a nightmare. Not to 
   mention, I would need to spin up multiple TW's at once if I wanted a full 
   picture of my life, which would be disconnected since it's spread across 
   multiple TW's.
   - So really my concerns have nothing to do with TW itself, but just how 
   to best organize everything in my life into tags and titles, coming up with 
   naming conventions and structure.

I guess what would be nice is if there was a way to have everything in one 
TW, but namespaced or some other ability to have multiple contexts, so that 
you could have simple titles like "TODO List" but it would be context aware 
such that it could be under a specific project and I wouldn't have to worry 
about conflicts with other tiddlers named "TODO List". This way, I would 
still only have to worry about maintaining and updating plugins, macros, 
etc for one TW, and I could link between contexts using some namespace 
convention. I realize I could create a namespacing convention of my own, 
but then I would end up with a lot of added complexity.

Anyway, that's my perspective on TW after a few days. I have a lot to 
learn, but I'm really excited I found this.

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[tw] Re: Transclusion and Substitution ambiguity

[TiddlyNoob]

Thanks for the reply. That's what I figured the documentation was trying to 
explain. 

I really think the documentation needs to be more explicit about the fact 
that substitution is not a general concept, rather it is a specific process 
in the context of TW, given that it only applies to a very specific 
situation (replacing variables and parameters in macro definitions during 
macro calls). 

The definitions of both transclusion and substitution are very imprecise, 
and the distinction the documentation makes between substitution and 
transclusion (Substitution happens before wiki text processing) is very 
ambiguous, because for example, it leaves you thinking the attribute 
examples are substitution, not transclusion. The definition of transclusion 
states that it is the process of including the contents of one tiddler in 
another tiddler, but clearly there is a much more broad usage.

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 7:41:07 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I was kind of waiting for the question ;-)
>
> It might be better to look at the documentation for substitution. 
> Everything you saw on that page gave examples of transclusion. Substitution 
> occurs *inside* macros using either $var$ or $(var)$ (environmental 
> variables).  In the example 
>
> <$text text=<>/>
>
> The *results* of a macro are being transcluded as the value passed to the 
> text attribute. Substitution would only occur if you called a macro with 
> parameters (or used environmental variable markers)
>
> \define myMacro() $(currentTiddler)$ is my favorite tiddler
>
> If you were then inside the tiddler, CatTiddler the results of the above 
> text widget would be:
>
> CatTiddler is my favorite tiddler
>
> The value of <> would be transcluded to the text attribute, but 
> the substitution would occur inside the macro.
>
> The main thing to get out of this is, whenever you need to join 2 pieces 
> of text, you are probably going to need a macro and it's text-substituting 
> ability.
>
> It's probably best not to get hung up on the terminology at the start. Try 
> a few examples of your own for transclusions and maybe even defining/using 
> your own macros. 
>
> Good luck,
> Mark
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 3:29:29 PM UTC-7, TiddlyNoob wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> I'm a software developer and just started learning TiddlyWiki a few days 
>> ago. I'm trying to grasp the fundamentals before delving too deep in the 
>> complicated stuff. 
>>
>> Transclusion seems like an important concept to grasp, and I could get by 
>> with the general understanding that it's simply including the contents of a 
>> macro, variable, or tiddler field in some context, whether it be in the 
>> body of a tiddler, or as the value of an HTML attribute, but I can't help 
>> but question the ambiguity in the documentation, especially when it 
>> compares transclusion to substitution.
>>
>> The definition <http://tiddlywiki.com/#Transclusion>of transclusion in 
>> the documentation describes it as a process of including the contents of 
>> one tiddler into another tiddler.
>>
>> The Transclusion and Substitution 
>> <http://tiddlywiki.com/#Transclusion%20and%20Substitution> documentation 
>> basically describes every type of substitution as an example of 
>> transclusion, whether it's a tiddler field, macro, or variable you are 
>> referencing, and whether or not you are doing it in the body of a tiddler, 
>> or in a filter, or as the value of an attribute. It then goes on to say 
>> that the key distinction between transclusion and substitution is that 
>> substitution happens before WikiText processing, so it's just a simple 
>> substitution of text without WikiText processing. Transclusion, however, 
>> includes WikiText processing.
>>
>> But the example it gives for transclusion of a macro in an attribute:
>>
>> <$text text=<>/>
>>
>> ..seems to be just regular substitution, since there is no WikiText 
>> processing.
>>
>> This confusion seems apparent in other places in the documentation as 
>> well, such as in HTML in WikiText 
>> <http://tiddlywiki.com/#HTML%20in%20WikiText>, where it describes 
>> examples that use tiddler fields attr={{tiddler}} as using transclusion, 
>> but then the macro examples >> do not 
>> mention transclusion at all.
>>
>

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[tw] Transclusion and Substitution ambiguity

[TiddlyNoob]

Hey guys,

I'm a software developer and just started learning TiddlyWiki a few days 
ago. I'm trying to grasp the fundamentals before delving too deep in the 
complicated stuff. 

Transclusion seems like an important concept to grasp, and I could get by 
with the general understanding that it's simply including the contents of a 
macro, variable, or tiddler field in some context, whether it be in the 
body of a tiddler, or as the value of an HTML attribute, but I can't help 
but question the ambiguity in the documentation, especially when it 
compares transclusion to substitution.

The definition of transclusion in the 
documentation describes it as a process of including the contents of one 
tiddler into another tiddler.

The Transclusion and Substitution 
 documentation 
basically describes every type of substitution as an example of 
transclusion, whether it's a tiddler field, macro, or variable you are 
referencing, and whether or not you are doing it in the body of a tiddler, 
or in a filter, or as the value of an attribute. It then goes on to say 
that the key distinction between transclusion and substitution is that 
substitution happens before WikiText processing, so it's just a simple 
substitution of text without WikiText processing. Transclusion, however, 
includes WikiText processing.

But the example it gives for transclusion of a macro in an attribute:

<$text text=<>/>

..seems to be just regular substitution, since there is no WikiText 
processing.

This confusion seems apparent in other places in the documentation as well, 
such as in HTML in WikiText , 
where it describes examples that use tiddler fields attr={{tiddler}} as 
using transclusion, but then the macro examples >> do not mention transclusion at all.

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