Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Mohammad]

Hello Rizwan!
 This is a great tool! I am interested in its capability to take backups 
using Timimi!
But seems It can be used in other cases.

-Mohammad

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Riz]

For purposes of posterity, I think it would be relevant to poin out snapshots 
plugin here. I made it to work in conjunction with the timimi plugin.

https://ibnishak.github.io/Tesseract/pluginsandmacros/snapshot.html 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

h0p3 wrote:

Perhaps your distinction is about an optimization problem I'm 
> misunderstanding.   


Absolutely not. You are spot on my miscreant mis-drift on not understanding 
your versioning that is preservation of a new universe.  

I currently have 265 different versions of my wiki from the past 5 days 
> each saved ...
>

Best wishes
Josiah 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[h0p3's Wiki]

Have I not been talking about versioning? I'm sorry if I'm mistaken or
wasting your time.

In the past 5 days, I currently have 265 different versions of my wiki each
saved on both resilio sync (across a couple) and dropbox. I think my of my
daily snapshots as versions as well (I use them that way). I'm convinced I
am relating my past edits to the present. Tell me a date and time to roll
back to, and I can do that in seconds. Give me a string to search in my
versions, and I can do that. Some tools are incremental (delta/diff) and
others full (each have their benefits).

Perhaps your distinction is about an optimization problem I'm
misunderstanding.

Sincerely,
- h0p3

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:05 PM @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> h0p3 wrote:
>>
>> I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. I'm going to assume I use both
>> extra systems and solo methods?
>>
>
> No idea. Other than your own.
>
>
>> My wiki is practically my horcrux/personal talisman, so I'm pretty
>> obsessed with making sure I don't lose it. I keep a lot of backups and
>> redundancies.
>>
>
> I'd never want to get between a user and their horcrux.
>
> Backups are fine. We talking here about VERSIONING--i.e. systems that help
> optimise the relation of now and then.
>
> J.
>
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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

h0p3 wrote:
>
> I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. I'm going to assume I use both 
> extra systems and solo methods?
>

No idea. Other than your own.
 

> My wiki is practically my horcrux/personal talisman, so I'm pretty 
> obsessed with making sure I don't lose it. I keep a lot of backups and 
> redundancies. 
>

I'd never want to get between a user and their horcrux.  

Backups are fine. We talking here about VERSIONING--i.e. systems that help 
optimise the relation of now and then.

J.

>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[h0p3's Wiki]

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. I'm going to assume I use both extra
systems and solo methods?

My wiki is practically my horcrux/personal talisman, so I'm pretty obsessed
with making sure I don't lose it. I keep a lot of backups and redundancies.
I don't know how to draw the lines for others. Let me just drive home how
crazy and incompetent I am at the same time folks:

I'm currently reworking my git, but git is one tool I use (I'll be using
every git provider I can get my hands on). I also use dropbox (solid
versioning which I've had to use a couple times), archive.org, resilio sync
archives (my goto for when I oops in my own base), rsync cronjobs of my
entire wiki directory (I have it just in case, but I've not needed it), a
compressed daily snapshot collection (this is actually what I use for
looking through old versions), the file-backups extension (quick way to
solve plenty of snafus), and my system backups (haven't needed it for
myself, but it has saved my family's butts many times). I also regularly
make backups by hands onto thumbdrives which I distribute to family and
friends when I travel.



On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 1:40 PM @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> h0p3: I care a good deal about my versioning (it's part of what makes my
>> wiki what it is, imho). It's fairly common for me to go back in time to see
>> what the original tiddler or structures in my wiki were.
>
>
> Question: do you use an EXTRA "system"? Or do you do that some solo
> method?
>
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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Diego Mesa]

I use a local git repository with semi-daily commits, that I also push up 
to a private github repository. 

On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 12:40:31 PM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> h0p3: I care a good deal about my versioning (it's part of what makes my 
>> wiki what it is, imho). It's fairly common for me to go back in time to see 
>> what the original tiddler or structures in my wiki were.
>
>
> Question: do you use an EXTRA "system"? Or do you do that some solo 
> method?  
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[FrD]

Hi,

About Auto-download (or SaveTrail plugin), I believe it could be useful if 
someone could "merge" this plugin with some kind of "file-backups" (from 
PMario). So we could choose what tiddler to automatically backup (with a 
special button for instance) in a designated folder (like file-backups 
already does) and as a JSON file. It would be a "raw" tiddler-level backup.

Just a thought.

Regards

FrD

Le jeudi 23 août 2018 06:47:17 UTC+2, TonyM a écrit :
>
> Mat,
>
> There are more than one type of "Versioning system".
>
> ...
>
>
>- ...
>- The Core Plugin Auto-download modified tiddlers
>This plugin causes TiddlyWiki  to 
>continuously download (as a JSON file) the contents of any tiddler that is 
>manually changed by any of several means ...
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> h0p3: I care a good deal about my versioning (it's part of what makes my 
> wiki what it is, imho). It's fairly common for me to go back in time to see 
> what the original tiddler or structures in my wiki were.


Question: do you use an EXTRA "system"? Or do you do that some solo 
method?  

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Re: [tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[h0p3's Wiki]

I believe I care a good deal about my versioning (it's part of what makes
my wiki what it is, imho). It's fairly common for me to go back in time to
see what the original tiddler or structures in my wiki were. Sometimes I
have to recreate something, sometimes I'm making a comparison, and
sometimes I'm just trying to better understand the story I'm telling myself
in my wiki.

I think there is too much in TW that can't be nicely versioned within TW
itself. There are some problems which really are best handled in TW itself,
but I'm not convinced versioning at large is one of them (that may just be
a bias in how I use TW though). I think versioning is a kind of backup, and
there are a lot of valuable ways to backup one's TW. Versioning other kinds
of software I run on my system can be a lot more complicated, imho.

Leveraging the fact that TW meaningfully and usably fits into a single file
is really convenient, imho. Simultaneously using a number of
versioning/backup systems for TW is one of its strengths in my eyes. I feel
like versioning the entire TW solves my problems nicely (and, I
specifically keep some versions of my tiddlers in my TW by hand to tell a
story). I'm surprised this is considered a defect by others. I fear I am
missing something important.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:25 AM @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> Ciao  Diego
>
> Right. This discussion is not new. And that one you referred to was tight
> and good.
>
> Its the usual Google Groups problem that "just yesterday" might as well be
> "a century away."
>
> Good people here learn to be HISTORIANS :-).
>
> I wish we could just FIND stuff related without needing special skills.
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> On Thursday, 23 August 2018 16:04:50 UTC+2, Diego Mesa wrote:
>>
>> There was a similar discussion of a similar approach here:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/TiddlyWiki/2UNt2IUKzy4/SWvFcRjQBQAJ
>>
>> On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:47:56 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> Mat: I was just saddened from reading that complaint with someone
 dismissing TW because the lack of versioning

>>>
>>> I'm saddened too. Especially as we don't often know what "we" have done
>>> already. IF we don't clearly know HOW is anybody else going to?
>>>
>>> J, x
>>>
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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao  Diego

Right. This discussion is not new. And that one you referred to was tight 
and good.

Its the usual Google Groups problem that "just yesterday" might as well be 
"a century away."

Good people here learn to be HISTORIANS :-). 

I wish we could just FIND stuff related without needing special skills.

Best wishes
Josiah

On Thursday, 23 August 2018 16:04:50 UTC+2, Diego Mesa wrote:
>
> There was a similar discussion of a similar approach here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/TiddlyWiki/2UNt2IUKzy4/SWvFcRjQBQAJ
>
> On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:47:56 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Mat: I was just saddened from reading that complaint with someone 
>>> dismissing TW because the lack of versioning
>>>
>>
>> I'm saddened too. Especially as we don't often know what "we" have done 
>> already. IF we don't clearly know HOW is anybody else going to?
>>
>> J, x
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Diego Mesa]

There was a similar discussion of a similar approach here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/TiddlyWiki/2UNt2IUKzy4/SWvFcRjQBQAJ

On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:47:56 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mat: I was just saddened from reading that complaint with someone 
>> dismissing TW because the lack of versioning
>>
>
> I'm saddened too. Especially as we don't often know what "we" have done 
> already. IF we don't clearly know HOW is anybody else going to?
>
> J, x
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> Mat: I was just saddened from reading that complaint with someone 
> dismissing TW because the lack of versioning
>

I'm saddened too. Especially as we don't often know what "we" have done 
already. IF we don't clearly know HOW is anybody else going to?

J, x

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat 

Regarding versioning. There is "saving of difference" (parts) and "saving 
of variants" (wholes) . I'm assuming you mean the latter for stand-alone TW?

I'd say that the automatic versioning in Noteself (when you connect to 
CouchDb) is very good, infinite and robust IF you into NS.

J.D.'s approach, mentioned in the thread, is useful too. Its elegant 
design. But its "step-back" is limited. Jeremy's basic architecture that 
enables it from 5.1.17 is also good but limited.

OVERALL, a useful rich plugin is by "wjam", which has had virtually no 
feedback, looks very useful. If we gave him some feedback it might get even 
better. It saves old versions at will, compares them visually (in several 
ways) and restores them as needed. 

It not without issues but that is because he needs feedback.

Original thread: 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/fxLtI4igpfY/kru1ES3LBgAJ

The beta TWJAM5 Diffview plugin: http://twjam5beta.tiddlyspot.com/

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Mat]

Just so no misunderstanding; 

I was just saddened from reading that complaint with someone dismissing TW 
because the lack of versioning, ie how something so simple could make 
someone miss out on TW, so I just put up this quick outline of how it can 
be done. Good to see others have dealt with this issue more thoroughly but 
I don't personally have any particular interest in the topic (at least not 
before we federate). 


<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[TonyM]

Mat,

I forgot to add another form of versioning is release versioning like 
major, minor and patch as with the TiddlyWiki release standards itself.
 eg 5.1.17

I have built a way to mark tiddlers with this - in someways we would call 
this a logical version, perhaps independent of tiddler versions.

Regards
Tony

On Thursday, 23 August 2018 14:47:17 UTC+10, TonyM wrote:
>
> Mat,
>
> There are more than one type of "Versioning system".
>
> Multiple versions of a file or tiddlers?
>
> Tiddlers,
>
>- NoteSelf does this for tiddlers
>- There is another tool I cant recall released or updated in the last 
>month or so
>- The Core Plugin Auto-download modified tiddlers
>This plugin causes TiddlyWiki  to 
>continuously download (as a JSON file) the contents of any tiddler that is 
>manually changed by any of several means:
>- I use the clone button for single tiddlers I may need to revisit 
>after edit
>   - I created a backup button to this while removing tags 
>- There may be solutions on top of Node or Bob
>
> File level
>
>- A number of the file savers have file level versions, so you can 
>recover tiddlers as at a backup date
>
> The diff viewer is now available in the latest version during an edit, 
> this could be leveraged to compare versions of a tiddler, or two tiddlers.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> On Thursday, 23 August 2018 07:10:34 UTC+10, Mat wrote:
>>
>> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
>> thought it was an interesting idea;
>>
>> Someone complained 
>>  that 
>> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
>> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
>> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
>> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
>> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
>> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>>
>> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
>> those previous versions. 
>>
>> Yeah, that was all.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[TonyM]

I think that WAS IT!

On Thursday, 23 August 2018 15:35:25 UTC+10, FrD wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> What about http://j.d.revisions.tiddlyspot.com/ ?
>
> Regards
>
> FrD
>
> Le mercredi 22 août 2018 23:10:34 UTC+2, Mat a écrit :
>>
>> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
>> thought it was an interesting idea;
>>
>> Someone complained 
>>  that 
>> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
>> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
>> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
>> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
>> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
>> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>>
>> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
>> those previous versions. 
>>
>> Yeah, that was all.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[FrD]

Hi,

What about http://j.d.revisions.tiddlyspot.com/ ?

Regards

FrD

Le mercredi 22 août 2018 23:10:34 UTC+2, Mat a écrit :
>
> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
> thought it was an interesting idea;
>
> Someone complained 
>  that 
> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>
> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
> those previous versions. 
>
> Yeah, that was all.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[TonyM]

Mat,

There are more than one type of "Versioning system".

Multiple versions of a file or tiddlers?

Tiddlers,

   - NoteSelf does this for tiddlers
   - There is another tool I cant recall released or updated in the last 
   month or so
   - The Core Plugin Auto-download modified tiddlers
   This plugin causes TiddlyWiki  to 
   continuously download (as a JSON file) the contents of any tiddler that is 
   manually changed by any of several means:
   - I use the clone button for single tiddlers I may need to revisit after 
   edit
  - I created a backup button to this while removing tags 
   - There may be solutions on top of Node or Bob

File level

   - A number of the file savers have file level versions, so you can 
   recover tiddlers as at a backup date
   
The diff viewer is now available in the latest version during an edit, this 
could be leveraged to compare versions of a tiddler, or two tiddlers.

Regards
Tony


On Thursday, 23 August 2018 07:10:34 UTC+10, Mat wrote:
>
> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
> thought it was an interesting idea;
>
> Someone complained 
>  that 
> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>
> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
> those previous versions. 
>
> Yeah, that was all.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I'm tempted to pursue this, but can't help but wonder if it hasn't already 
been done.

-- Mark

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:10:34 PM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
> thought it was an interesting idea;
>
> Someone complained 
>  that 
> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>
> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
> those previous versions. 
>
> Yeah, that was all.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Idea for simple versioning system

[Guille Rmo]

I've thought about it. And they have integrated a diff viewer 
already. https://tiddlywiki.com/static/DiffTextWidget.html

By quickly googling I have found these: 

* https://github.com/maryrosecook/gitlet
* https://github.com/isomorphic-git/isomorphic-git
* https://github.com/creationix/js-git

Though storing every change you make to the tiddlers could make the TW file 
quite heavy. I think its worth trying, though :)

El miércoles, 22 de agosto de 2018, 15:10:34 (UTC-6), Mat escribió:
>
> This is not a question nor anything I intend to implement but I just 
> thought it was an interesting idea;
>
> Someone complained 
>  that 
> TW doesn't feature versioning. If it is a big deal, then shouldn't it be 
> simple to create a primitive versioning system by merely modding the Save 
> tiddler button (or make a new button) that triggers an action widget that 
> creates a numbered copy of the tiddler? Some minor shuffling to get the old 
> content be in the tiddler with the new (numbered) title is probably needed 
> but we definitely have the tools needed and it shouldn't be very tricky.
>
> Then, also not complicated, just make a tiddler viewtemplate that lists 
> those previous versions. 
>
> Yeah, that was all.
>
> <:-)
>

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