Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Lester Veenstra M0YCM K1YCM
What is the cost of the two channel pci system, if you happen to have the price in hand. If not, I will ask direct. Full Name: Lester B Veenstra Job Title: Communication Sys Des Engr Sr Stf Department: 6L01 Site Operations Collaboration and Reach-Back (SOCAR) Company:Inte

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Tom Clark, K3IO
Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > The Dallas delay lines aren't all that accurate, you need to calibrate > them to acheive 1ns accuracy (read the specs) and then you have to > worry about temperature variations. > To use them you need to decode the sawtooth correction message from > the GPS timing receiv

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Tom Van Baak wrote: >> Define cheap. >> You can already get essentially single chip TICs with a resolution (and >> accuracy) better than 100ps for around 100 Euros or so. >> > > Has anyone in the group tried one of these? I would very > much like to see the results. > All except Xavier se

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Tom Van Baak
> Define cheap. > You can already get essentially single chip TICs with a resolution (and > accuracy) better than 100ps for around 100 Euros or so. Has anyone in the group tried one of these? I would very much like to see the results. > However sawtooth correction is cheaper than using a hardwar

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Tom Tom Van Baak wrote: > I would agree. A 1 ns phase detector is usually more than a > single IC. Not sure what to say about the computer resource, > though. The sawtooth correction is usually obtained though a > low-speed (e.g., 9600 baud) serial message from the GPS > receiver. Most any $2 micro

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Jim Miller
Hi Tom I thought the 1ns resolution phase detector combined with a significant phase error in a PLL could generate a number large enough to need a 4 byte representation which would then need signed arithmetic done on it. Accumulating many of those over the integration period means even greater

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Hal Murray wrote: >> Synchronisers can easily be built from shift registers. >> > > What do you mean by "synchronizer"? > > Are you talking about a delay so the times line up correctly or a > circuit to avoid metastability? > > > Hal Usually just a fast shift register with the number of s

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Hal Murray
> Synchronisers can easily be built from shift registers. What do you mean by "synchronizer"? Are you talking about a delay so the times line up correctly or a circuit to avoid metastability? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. __

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Javier Corrected Analog TAC schematic attached. The number of extra chips required depends on if one uses a CPLD or SSI logic (eg 74HC/74AHC parts) and if your selected micro has a suitable internal ADC and or a counter that can be sampled by an external signal transition. Bruce <>_

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Javier wrote: Tom Van Baak escribió: When someone finds a cheap single-shot 1 ns TIC-on-a-chip please let me know. www.acam.de Not very expensive although not cheap. I've some samples... but not yet time to experiment with them. Regards, Javier, EA1CRB Javier You still nee

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Javier
Tom Van Baak escribió: > > When someone finds a cheap single-shot 1 ns TIC-on-a-chip > please let me know. > > www.acam.de Not very expensive although not cheap. I've some samples... but not yet time to experiment with them. Regards, Javier, EA1CRB _

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Tom Van Baak
> My first post...newbie...be gentle... > > I spent the last several evenings reading the archives and saw mention of > sawtooth error correction in software. Since the corrections to be applied > are on the order of 1e-9 seconds it would seem that the phase detector > outputs to which these ar

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Dr Bruce Griffiths
Jim Miller wrote: > My first post...newbie...be gentle... > > I spent the last several evenings reading the archives and saw mention of > sawtooth error correction in software. Since the corrections to be applied > are on the order of 1e-9 seconds it would seem that the phase detector > outputs

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Jim Miller
Brooke Thanks for the quick response. I'm definitely in the amateur/hobbyist, frequency quadrant of the spectrum of posters/lurkers here. I'm mostly interested in the homebrew M12M/GPSDO activities so the HP counter doesn't appear applicable. tnx jim miller ab3cv __

Re: [time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Brooke Clarke
Hi Jim: The size of the sawtooth error depends on which GPS receiver you are using. The older 6 and 8 channel Motorola receivers were a little over 50 ns and the newer 12 channel receivers are around 10 ns. But it's my understanding that there's a bug in the sawtooth output on all the 6 channe

[time-nuts] Software Sawtooth correction prerequisites?

2007-05-11 Thread Jim Miller
My first post...newbie...be gentle... I spent the last several evenings reading the archives and saw mention of sawtooth error correction in software. Since the corrections to be applied are on the order of 1e-9 seconds it would seem that the phase detector outputs to which these are applied mu

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Hal Murr ay writes: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: >> I can confirm that the choice of 75 Ohm for telecom use indeed is >> because of the low attenuation. The first use of coax was for >> "Carrier Frequency" systems, where a number of telephone conversations >> were AM

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread John Day
At 03:26 PM 5/11/2007, you wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > > I can confirm that the choice of 75 Ohm for telecom use indeed is > > because of the low attenuation. The first use of coax was for > > "Carrier Frequency" systems, where a number of telephone conversations > > were AM modulated on in

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread jmfranke
As the impedance goes up, the current drops for a given power level drops. John WA4WDL - Original Message - From: "Hal Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread Hal Murray
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I can confirm that the choice of 75 Ohm for telecom use indeed is > because of the low attenuation. The first use of coax was for > "Carrier Frequency" systems, where a number of telephone conversations > were AM modulated on individual carriers, usually 4 kHz apart. W

Re: [time-nuts] PTS 310

2007-05-11 Thread Ulrich Bangert
Craig, exactly what was needed! Thanks Ulrich > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Craig S McCartney > Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Mai 2007 14:55 > An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] P

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread SAIDJACK
In a message dated 5/10/2007 20:27:33 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fortunately we are seeing more and more DVI and HDMI around here and they seem to have much better characteristics, the S-Video interconnec system is, to put it mildly, worthy of the junk bin! Yeah,

Re: [time-nuts] PTS 310

2007-05-11 Thread Craig S McCartney
Ulrich, This site should help you. http://www.febo.com/time-freq/hardware/PTS/index.html Craig -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ulrich Bangert Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:01 AM To: Time nuts Subject: [time-nuts] PTS 310 Gents, I just

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread John Day
At 02:52 AM 5/11/2007, Peter Vince wrote: >Thank you all for your replies. As I should have guessed, a simple >question leads to a long and complicated answer! Of course! One of the truly fun things about groups such as this one is that we have people with an enormous wealth of knowledge. I kno

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread Robert Atkinson
It also uses less copper so the costs are less, important when lines are measured in miles not feet! Robert. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: 10 May 2007 21:53 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

Re: [time-nuts] 50 vs 75 ohm cables

2007-05-11 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Day writes: >So 75 ohms as we >know it now is a compromise between the low attenuation 77 ohms and >the 73 ohm dipole feed-point. I can confirm that the choice of 75 Ohm for telecom use indeed is because of the low attenuation. The first use of coax was for

[time-nuts] PTS 310

2007-05-11 Thread Ulrich Bangert
Gents, I just managed to buy a second hand PTS 310 synthesizer on eBay in the remote-only version with parallel BCD interface. Has anyone of you a manual available in electronic form or at least some information on the pinning of the 50-pol Amphenol connector for setting the frequency? Best regar