Re: [time-nuts] Hand Held GPS

2009-03-30 Thread paul
b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: I would check the antenna types to be tested at home with a new Garmin to see if the antennas work with below spec DC voltage. Hi Bjorn, thats a good suggestion and as a test I just tried my TomTom vehicle unit which supplies just fractionally over 3v at the

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten

2009-03-30 Thread David C. Partridge
I don't have any more PCBs left for the frequency divider I did last year, but if there's enough interest, I can get another batch made up. All outputs re-clocked to input using FF before final line driver stage. Cheers Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] Hand Held GPS

2009-03-30 Thread Hal Murray
That's also a good move and could also implement a little diagnostics capability by monitoring the volts/current, but if a standard gps will do the go /no go test its less to carry (and break) in the field. Another (possibly crazy) idea is to find some of the old units that you know and

Re: [time-nuts] Hand Held GPS

2009-03-30 Thread David C. Partridge
Do things never break in good weather? Yes, but only when all the people able to fix them are away on holiday or off sick, or you've run out of the necessary parts. D. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Hand Held GPS

2009-03-30 Thread Magnus Danielson
David C. Partridge skrev: Do things never break in good weather? Yes, but only when all the people able to fix them are away on holiday or off sick, or you've run out of the necessary parts. When ever else? Things almost always fails when least convenient. On rare occasions you have a

[time-nuts] Actual life time of a Datum LPRO-101?

2009-03-30 Thread Ulf Kylenfall
All, Does anyone have any experience with the Datum/Efratom LPRO-101 Rubidium standard? There are large amounts of these on e-bay. The datasheet specifies life time to at least 10 years and the one that I found on a flea market is dated 1999. I assume that they are replaced as a planned

Re: [time-nuts] Actual life time of a Datum LPRO-101?

2009-03-30 Thread Neville Michie
I have not had any experience with FEI devices, the LPRO lamp voltage comes from an amplifier which monitors some internal voltage. I guess they scaled it to be similar to other rubidium devices. The lamp requires a very small amount of rubidium to provide the vapour, which should be at a low

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten

2009-03-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Do you mean one should use SiGe ECL (or CML) D flipflops or higher performance devices for the output synchronisers? It would surely be a little difficult to justify this given the relatively noisy outputs of most rubidium sources. A 74HC4017 has a symmetric 1:1 mark space ratio divide by ten

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten

2009-03-30 Thread EWKehren
No, you can never improve on what you start out with, I would just eliminate the jitter you may get with the 90's. I would use a 74xx74 because it clocks on the positive edge, the 90's on the negative edge. Looking at Jameco you can get 74xx74 in DIL any where from F to HC. I would not use

Re: [time-nuts] Actual life time of a Datum LPRO-101?

2009-03-30 Thread Predrag Dukic
Hi, Neville, is the same with FEI products; Higher voltage when new, decreased with aging? Predrag Dukic At 12:17 30.3.2009, you wrote: Hi, they finish their life when the lamp fades out. When you stoke it up there is a lamp monitoring voltage that is about 10 volts when new but drops

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten

2009-03-30 Thread EWKehren
In my opinion the best way is still to use two 74xx90 connected divide by five and divide by two. That gives a symmetrical output. That is why you can not use a 390. The A output should subsequently be applied to a D or JK flip flop with the clock input connected to the 10 MHz. The D or JK

Re: [time-nuts] Actual life time of a Datum LPRO-101?

2009-03-30 Thread Neville Michie
Hi, they finish their life when the lamp fades out. When you stoke it up there is a lamp monitoring voltage that is about 10 volts when new but drops below 4 volts at end of life. Otherwise, if it will lock on it is probably a good unit. New users tend not to understand that the frequency trim

Re: [time-nuts] Hand Held GPS]

2009-03-30 Thread paul
Magnus Danielson wrote: David C. Partridge skrev: Do things never break in good weather? Yes, but only when all the people able to fix them are away on holiday or off sick, or you've run out of the necessary parts. Or the customer has used up all the spares to expand the network :-)

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art divide by ten - UPDATE

2009-03-30 Thread Bill Janssen
David C. Partridge wrote: I don't have any more PCBs left for the frequency divider I did last year, but if there's enough interest, I can get another batch made up. All outputs re-clocked to input using FF before final line driver stage. Cheers Dave -Original Message- From:

[time-nuts] Manually controlling the EFC on a Z3801/5

2009-03-30 Thread Peter Vince
Is it possible to lock down, or control, the EFC on a Z3801 or Z3805? Putting it into Holdover allows the system to steer it according to its learnt characteristics, but I would quite like to bolt it down to see how stable, or otherwise, the oscillator is. Unlike on the Thunderbolt, I can't

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71

2009-03-30 Thread Kit Scally
Bill, What's wrong with Tom's (/tvb) PIC divider ? http://www.leapsecond.com/tools/PPSDIV.ASM Rgds, Kit ** Message: 2 Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:28:57 -0700 From: Bill Janssen bi...@ieee.org Subject: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten To: Discussion of precise time

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71

2009-03-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Kit Probably the higher jitter and periodic phase modulation due to simultaneous switching of multiple outputs at different frequencies. The magnitude of the latter will depend on the loads driven by each output. The cure is to use an external flipflop to resynchronise the outputs to the 10Mhz

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71

2009-03-30 Thread Magnus Danielson
Tom Van Baak skrev: Kit Probably the higher jitter and periodic phase modulation due to simultaneous switching of multiple outputs at different frequencies. The magnitude of the latter will depend on the loads driven by each output. The cure is to use an external flipflop to resynchronise

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71

2009-03-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Tom Tom Van Baak wrote: Kit Probably the higher jitter and periodic phase modulation due to simultaneous switching of multiple outputs at different frequencies. The magnitude of the latter will depend on the loads driven by each output. The cure is to use an external flipflop to

[time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread John Ackermann N8UR
When Bruce raised the question a bit earlier, I was curious so set up a quick experiment. I happen to have two 10 MHz to 1 PPS dividers based on Tom's code. They lack the higher order outputs, so the modulation effects Bruce spoke of aren't present, but they should be a good test for general

Re: [time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
John John Ackermann N8UR wrote: When Bruce raised the question a bit earlier, I was curious so set up a quick experiment. I happen to have two 10 MHz to 1 PPS dividers based on Tom's code. They lack the higher order outputs, so the modulation effects Bruce spoke of aren't present, but they

Re: [time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread Pete
John, Thanks for sharing your experimental results. I am surprised that the PIC divider outputs were 85 ms apart when driven from the same source. I am ignorant of their internal workings, but I would expect the jitter results to be significantly impacted by this. Any thoughts on the origin of

Re: [time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread Tom Van Baak
Over 1000 measurements at 1 PPS, I got a standard deviation of 46.9 ps. The delta between minimum and maximum readings was 330 ps. Since we were testing two independent dividers, I suppose you could divide the standard deviation by the square root of 2, which gives about 33 ps. I then did

Re: [time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Tom Van Baak wrote: Over 1000 measurements at 1 PPS, I got a standard deviation of 46.9 ps. The delta between minimum and maximum readings was 330 ps. Since we were testing two independent dividers, I suppose you could divide the standard deviation by the square root of 2, which gives about

Re: [time-nuts] PIC Divider Performance (was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 71)

2009-03-30 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 49d16637.60...@febo.com, John Ackermann N8UR writes: Therefore, the PIC divider is a bit above the 5370B noise floor, but not much. Many years ago, I did a similar experiment, but to eliminate the timebases from the measurement I used the PPS output as start and the 10MHz input