Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Indeed according to the tracor 900 manual you could get to -11th in 24 hours best case. Further comment was NAA is CS as of 1976! The 900 indeed has a semi simple op amp adapter thing that reduces or gets rid of the MSK. Though I have read the description and details it makes no sense as to how it

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
NAA actually is above and below 24KHz. That said I suspect that the system simply averages the MSK out of the loop by the filter TC of the PLL. There are numbers of propagation papers on NAA. Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed according to

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread David I. Emery
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:09:23PM -0400, paul swed wrote: I had discounted it because of the lack of info and totally unclear how to get rid of the FSK. MSK is FSK just with a very narrow shift. Also the effects of the fsk on the carrier. Hmmm glad I am typing this. It may be that the mark

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor*900A*.pdf On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:49 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: David Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way. But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a reference. Its

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
David Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way. But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a reference. Its a few opamps perhaps one side acting as a phase delay summing with the original and hitting a BPF. all of that running at 100Hz center

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop trick. The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift. So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that may drop phase due to noise. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:52 PM,

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread David I. Emery
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop trick. The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift. So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that may drop phase due to

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread David I. Emery
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote: Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop trick. That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment... -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com I did see the info there also. Browsers we luv'em. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:20 PM,

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread Pete Lancashire
URL ok from here -pete On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com I did

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread David I. Emery
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: URL ok from here The text of the original post had *s in the URL... which didn't work so well... Partly pilot error here... Works OK without the *s -pete -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE,

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started looking at NAA and msk. Regards Paul. On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, David I. Emery d...@dieconsulting.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: URL ok from here The text of the

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Oh Ebay has one for sale for the person that just needs one. Todays buy now $1693 plus shipping. There you go a deal a day. I think not. regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:48 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started

[time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread Arthur Dent
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. The problem with the above link is the period is included as part of the link when you click on it. It will work without the period. -Arthur

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
so much for copy and paste. Thanks On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf. The problem with the above

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread paul swed
Did check NAA and its banging into Boston. Had to put 40 db anttenuator inline to make it reasonable. Using the wwvb antenna. Most likely would do just fine with 6 ft of wire. Ok only had 4 ft of wire and its there. Could really use 10-12ft. :-) So maybe my fillings won't pick it up. Regards Paul.

[time-nuts] TM 500 extender board en HP 5370 extender boards

2014-08-15 Thread Claude Houde
Hello ! Please count me in also for two sets of TM 500 extenders and one HP 5370 board set. Please contact me off list at : va2hdd (at) amsat.org when you can, no rush, I have one question about this project. Thank you, Claude Houde VA2 HDD Le 2014-08-15 12:00,

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread Kenneth G. Gordon
On 15 Aug 2014 at 20:57, paul swed wrote: Did check NAA and its banging into Boston. 2 Megawatts to that antenna should show VOLTS at your place. We used that station for many years for VLF propagation research in Missoula, Montana. It banged in 24/7/365. Still does, except when its down for

Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz....

2014-08-15 Thread Alex Pummer
interesting to read: a very low frequency comparator for relating local frequency to u.s. standards http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1964-10.pdf 73 alex On 8/15/2014 4:52 PM, Arthur Dent wrote: Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a 2.5MB file