Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Bill Byrom
That sounds like a dangerous idea to me. Lightning arrestors at service entrances are designed to crowbar only for a cycle or so. As mentioned earlier in this thread, residential distribution in the US nearly always consists of a center-tapped balanced feed with the center tap grounded. If you

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Bill Hawkins
Wonder if these cases could be used on social media to create enough fear that there would be a market for AC crowbars capable of blowing line/pole transformer HV fuses? There's a few hits with Google, mostly for DC crowbars. Too bad relays are so slow. Bill Hawkins -Original Message-

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Van Horn, David
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No, -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Nichols Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 11:48 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA Did the utility replace

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Jeff AC0C
: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA Did the utility replace the damaged equipment? A friend lived in a building when the city crew working on a transformer put 440 on the line. It blew out all the electronics in 12 condos - mostly TVs. I think toasters and refrigerators were OK. There wasn't any

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Mark Spencer
Hi David. I've been told that in Canada the residential supply voltage in a neighbourhood is often set to account for the voltage drop in typical residential branch circuits. The last time the supply voltage in my home was checked it read 125 volts from each "service pole" to neutral or 250

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
On 4 January 2017 at 14:25, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) < drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote: > > I just phoned Tektronix and they want £160 (GBP) + VAT to calibrate this > 6000 count handheld DMM. Ouch. I will not bother with that. > Sorry, 60,000 touch - 4 3/4 digits.

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
d Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) > Sent: 04 January 2017 13:42 > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA > > I measured my voltage overnight in a peak hold at 255.10 V RMS as close to > the meter as I could. > > _

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread David C. Partridge
Time to call your supply co. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) Sent: 04 January 2017 13:42 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
On 4 January 2017 at 09:34, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > >Do you have a reference to this +6%? I've heard from various sources that > >the UK is 230 -6%/+10%. If the EU dictates otherwise, then I'm certainly > >over the 6% limit. I may or may not be over the 10%

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Bob Camp
Hi > On Jan 4, 2017, at 3:42 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > >> Did the utility replace the damaged equipment? > > A friend lived in a building when the city crew working on a transformer put > 440 on the line. It blew out all the electronics in 12 condos - mostly TVs. > I

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Bob Bownes
> How much trouble do hams have with their insurance companies? Typically very little if you have a rider to cover it. Costs a few $ a year Had my basement flood a number of years back and take out a few k worth of vintage computer gear. Not a problem. Covered to replacement cost. I have a

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread David C. Partridge
measurement; Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA There was a transitional range, but I belive it has expired. In 240V countries it was -6%/+10%. In 220V countries it was -10%/+6% ___ time-nuts mailing list

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-04 Thread Hal Murray
> Did the utility replace the damaged equipment? A friend lived in a building when the city crew working on a transformer put 440 on the line. It blew out all the electronics in 12 condos - mostly TVs. I think toasters and refrigerators were OK. There wasn't any question that the city was

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Jeremy Nichols
Did the utility replace the damaged equipment? On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 9:33 PM Van Horn, David < david.vanh...@backcountryaccess.com> wrote: > I once had some odd equipment failures which we found out were caused by > the line voltage being at 142V. > > This was in the mid 80's in Costa Mesa CA.

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Van Horn, David
I once had some odd equipment failures which we found out were caused by the line voltage being at 142V. This was in the mid 80's in Costa Mesa CA. The tech they sent out told me they had us on the wrong transformer tap. Lowest I've seen was 70V in Hawaii, with everyone coming home about 5PM

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Chuck Harris
Leap seconds only matter if you are counting seconds. The power line isn't. As long as they keep the frequency near nominal, they are fine. -Chuck Harris J wrote: > Power utilities tweak the system frequency on a daily basis to keep MAINS > powered clocks correct. I wonder what their

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Bob Camp
HI > On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > kb...@n1k.org said: >> They sell a lot of 24 bit audio DAC’s into that sort of gear. Team them up >> with some DSP and you get all sorts of interesting data. The “one number” >> that counts is the fundamental ….

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Hal Murray
kb...@n1k.org said: > They sell a lot of 24 bit audio DAC’s into that sort of gear. Team them up > with some DSP and you get all sorts of interesting data. The “one number” > that counts is the fundamental …. DAC? There is a big market for high resolution ADCs in that area - one in

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread J
Power utilities tweak the system frequency on a daily basis to keep MAINS powered clocks correct. I wonder what their correction strategy was for the leap second? On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Vlad wrote: > > > Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second"

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Measuring line voltage for “official” purposes straight up with a lab grade device that may have a bandwidth of many KHz (or even 100’s of KHz) is generally not a good way to go. The line voltage is the value of the fundamental (50 or 60 Hz) sine wave. All the other nonsense that

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
On 2 January 2017 at 05:15, Jeremy Nichols wrote: > Thank you for the detailed analysis, Bill. The voltage measurements I made > in my garage laboratory were duplicated by the utility with their meter, > which was connected at the service entrance. I have just been chatting

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Vlad
I put some raw data here: http://www.patoka.ca/OCXO/60HZ.logs.tar.Z Unfortunately its not continuous, because of for some period of times my machine was offline (software upgrades or my radio made some mess with RF which affects the MCU and recordings. And I was busy with something else

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Vlad
I noticed following information (source: http://www.mainsfrequency.com/news.htm#2015_1): Minimum and maximum mains frequency To clarify the question "how stable is the mains frequency", data of the last 13 months was analyzed (July 2011 to July 2012). The greatest fluctuations occurred

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Artek Manuals
Vlad do you have that data for a longer period of time...say 3 to 6 months? Dave On 1/3/2017 11:05 AM, Vlad wrote: Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note:

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)
On 2 January 2017 at 18:14, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message qnosgqvz...@mail.gmail.com> > , Tim Shoppa writes: > > >What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line > >voltage? > > In EU you're supposed to have 230V +/- 6% in your

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-03 Thread Vlad
Speaking about MAIN... I was interesting to see if "leap second" event has correlation with MAIN frequency fluctuation Here is graphs for the MAIN periods recorded. Note: The data on the charts is "smoothed" by Bezier curves I could see some "surge" which starts to climb in December 30

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread LEE MUSHEL
htning rod protection. 73 Lee K9WRU - Original Message - From: Poul-Henning Kamp <p...@phk.freebsd.dk> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>, Chuck Harris <cfhar...@erols.com> Sent: Mon, 02 Jan 2017 12:55:58 -0500 (EST) Subjec

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message , Tim Shoppa writes: >What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line >voltage? In EU you're supposed to have 230V +/- 6% in your outlet. The way this was arrived at was: A lot of

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread Tim Shoppa
What modern loads are actually sensitive to high (say, +10 to +20%) line voltage? Old incandescent light bulbs were among the most sensitive loads in the past (so much so, that 130V light bulbs were commonly available from the industrial suppliers). I would naively expect the modern CFL's and

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message <586a8b40.4050...@erols.com>, Chuck Harris writes: >Back in the dark ages of ~220V electrical distribution systems in >Europe, the reaping due to unintentional grounding of a ~220V wire >was so common and extreme, whole house ground fault interrupters >were mandated for all

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread Chuck Harris
It's not a split phase system in US residential power, it is a center tapped 240V single phase system. Split phase systems have historically had a 45-90 degree phase difference between the split phases. The US system, depending on which wire lead you take as your reference, has a 0, or a 180

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-02 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 4:49 AM, Bill Byrom wrote: > Most US homes and small businesses are powered by what is commonly > called a "split-phase" 240 V feed. The final distribution system > transformer has a 240 V center-tapped secondary. The center tap is > grounded, and three

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-01 Thread Jeremy Nichols
Thank you for the detailed analysis, Bill. The voltage measurements I made in my garage laboratory were duplicated by the utility with their meter, which was connected at the service entrance. We each showed voltage in excess of 126 VAC. Date from the (U of Tennessee) Frequency Disturbance

Re: [time-nuts] Line Voltage - USA

2017-01-01 Thread Bill Byrom
There are a couple of recent threads concerning the power line mains voltage standards. After a bit of research and thinking, I have found that this is a complex topic. The simple answer is: * The standard in the US for the past 50 years has been 120/240 V +/- 5% RMS at the service entrance to