On Mon, 07 May 2012 20:50:41 +0200
Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
It is also why the CD media has changed rythmic music, which
went from a love of distortion to a love of pure tones when
the CD media made it possible to play loud pure tones.
The late Julian Dunn has
AES = Audio Engineering Society
Google Julian Dunn audio
-John
=
On Mon, 07 May 2012 20:50:41 +0200
Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
It is also why the CD media has changed rythmic music, which
went from a love of distortion to a love of pure tones
On Wed, 9 May 2012 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT)
J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:
AES = Audio Engineering Society
Google Julian Dunn audio
Thanks a lot... now i have more to read for those rainy evening ;-)
Attila Kinali
--
Why does it take years to find the answers to
the
I once did a test with a audio expert and compared a CD and a digital copy.
He confirmed that the copy was the original and when I showed him which was
which
he still refused to believe.. I know a local guy who gold plated the PCBs for
his home brewed amp!
Raj
At 07-05-2012, you wrote:
These
On Mon, 07 May 2012 13:40:15 +0530
Raj vu2...@gmail.com wrote:
I once did a test with a audio expert and compared a CD and a digital copy.
He confirmed that the copy was the original and when I showed him which was
which
he still refused to believe.. I know a local guy who gold plated the
Let's expect the ultimate portable MP3 player with atomic clock
reference... :]
Also funny are the offerings with RbO CD-clocks... usually tweaked
FE-5680s, which are not exactly famous for a clean jitter/spurious free
output signal... The only reason is the easiness of output frequency
El 07/05/2012 11:20, Attila Kinali escribió:
But to bring this back to time nutty topics, have a look at
http://www.colorfly.eu/product.html It's an MP3 player with high
precision timing. It does not only use two TCXOs with 5ps Jitter..
No! It also employes a technique known as Jitter Kill for
An old saying: a fool and his money are often parted.
Sums things up nicely I feel.
Rob Kimberley
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Javier Herrero
Sent: 07 May 2012 11:30
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts
How does the fool get his money?
Chris Stake
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Rob Kimberley
Sent: 07 May 2012 11:55
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
But to bring this back to time nutty topics, have a look at
http://www.colorfly.eu/product.html
It's an MP3 player with high precision timing. It does not only use
two TCXOs with 5ps Jitter.. No! It also employes a technique known
as Jitter Kill for the ultimate mobile sound experience! :-)
/search?w=Power+Cords
Burt, K6OQK
From: Rob Kimberley robkimber...@btinternet.com
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
An old saying: a fool and his money are often parted.
Sums things up nicely I feel.
Rob
@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh dear
A friend of mine signed me up for a catalog from the Audio Advisor. He
said I deserved this - I was afraid to ask what he meant by that! Spend a
few minutes looking over this
site: http://www.audioadvisor.com/ Be sure to check out their Power
cords at: http
In message 226574.14407...@smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com, Burt I. Weiner w
rites:
Be sure to check out their
Power cords at: http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/search?w=Power+Cords
I always wondered how the distortion could stop right at the power
outlet, but I see that somebody has cornered
Nope.
Any Audiophool knows green electricity sounds much better, without any
artifacts produced by those annoying carbon atoms in coal, oil, or natural
gas, rattling around producing annoying distractions.
-John
In message 226574.14407...@smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com,
On 5/7/12 7:39 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote:
A friend of mine signed me up for a catalog from the Audio Advisor. He
said I deserved this - I was afraid to ask what he meant by that! Spend
a few minutes looking over this site: http://www.audioadvisor.com/ Be
sure to check out their Power cords at:
And for those who want a good debunking article to show to their
non-technical friends:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/power-cables
On 5/7/2012 8:01 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message226574.14407...@smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com, Burt I. Weiner w
rites:
Be sure to check
In message 52252.12.6.201.2.1336403114.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. Fors
ter writes:
Any Audiophool knows green electricity sounds much better, without any
artifacts produced by those annoying carbon atoms in coal, oil, or natural
gas, rattling around producing annoying distractions.
Unless,
All this kerfuffle about that Rubidium Clock kind of misses the point.
This is not some Audiophool thing but a serious piece of gear used for
recording studios. I am not going to get into the pricing of it, but if
you add up the cost of a /new/ Rb unit, distribution amp, power supply
and
In message 4fa7e639.9090...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes:
Well.. this is where folks on this list can do the world a service..
The whole thing about timing, stability, phase noise, Allan deviations,
etc. *is* complex, and it's tricky to come up with easy to understand,
short, descriptions of
-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Burt I. Weiner
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:39 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh dear
A friend of mine signed me up for a catalog from the Audio
Advisor. He said I deserved this - I was afraid
+0100
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
I must get one of their line cords to see if it will improve my timing
system!!
You just have to laugh at this nonsense.
Rob K
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Burt I
A crummy crystal oscillator zero beated to WWV is good to 1 in 10E6, a Rb
disciplined to GPS maybe 1 in 10E11.
Do you seriously think you, or anybody, can hear a pitch difference of
0.001 Hz in the audio range?
A quartz crystal is plenty good for any audio application, IMO.
-John
=
In message 226574.14407...@smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com, Burt I.
Weiner w
rites:
Next step will be to try to sell them electricity produced on
turbogenerators aligned to the earths magnetic field in order
to deliver minimal low unharmonic distotion...
I've been thinking I should be
On Mon, 07 May 2012 08:20:55 -0700
Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote:
I see nothing odd about wanting to get the best possible source for the
Master Clock for your master recordings.
My son does run a small studio and for him I was able to make a version
of that unit, for a lot less money
65,536 possible levels in 44.1
KHz to 192 KHz formats.
Thomas Knox
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:59:04 +0200
From: att...@kinali.ch
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
On Mon, 07 May 2012 08:20:55 -0700
Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote:
I see nothing odd about
Actually in digital audio playback timing is just as important except that
there is no was to remove jitter during poor recordings.
Thomas Knox
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:20:55 -0700
From: dan...@verizon.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
All this kerfuffle
On Mon, 7 May 2012 10:02:25 -0600
Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote:
Actually the numbers are quite real, play with the math, a small amount
of jitter in a DAC (X) can have a large difference (Y) when sampling a
complex wave form especially in the audiophile world where the sound of
24bit
On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:19:19 +0200
Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote:
Of course, you have
to keep the clock signal clean of any disturbance that might add modulations
to it. But that's a matter of keeping the power supply clean and having the
signal shielded. It's not an inherent property
dac 16,777,216 discrete
levels is clearly superior to older 16 bit dac 65,536 possible levels in 44.1
KHz to 192 KHz formats.
Thomas Knox
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:59:04 +0200
From: att...@kinali.ch
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
On Mon, 07 May 2012 08:20:55 -0700
Dan
It has nothing to do with engineering.
Artists, and I use the word with a huge bag of salt, are often Prima
Donnas. They are under the illusion that their works are masterpieces,
because they sell millions of copies on iTunes or elsewhere, or theit
concerts are sold out in two minutes. So,
On 5/6/2012 7:39 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M-Rubidium-Atomic-Clock-/270809581736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3f0d8248a8
Make sure you read the description to discover what it's being sold for.
My chuckle for the day.
Jim Palfreyman
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2012 08:20:55 -0700
Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote:
I see nothing odd about wanting to get the best possible source for the
Master Clock for your master recordings.
You are right about that. But there are
just
might be something to worry about.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Attila Kinali
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:19 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
Isn't long term stability an oxymoron? Or, put another way, a Murphy
Mantra?
Don
MailLists
Let's expect the ultimate portable MP3 player with atomic clock
reference... :]
Also funny are the offerings with RbO CD-clocks... usually tweaked
FE-5680s, which are not exactly famous for a clean
On 5/7/2012 2:20 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Mon, 07 May 2012 13:40:15 +0530
Rajvu2...@gmail.com wrote:
I once did a test with a audio expert and compared a CD and a digital copy.
He confirmed that the copy was the original and when I showed him which was
which
he still refused to believe..
Suppose you have a perfect, ideal clock that puts out 'convert' pulses at
an exact rate is used to strobe a high precision A/D.
Now suppose you add jitter to that perfect clock so that the rate stays
the same but time interval between successive pulses varies randomly
between P(1-x) and P(1+x).
One of my other avocations is precision shooting. I would not like to
engage in a contest to see which bunch of aficionados has more
folklore
Don
Javier Herrero
El 07/05/2012 11:20, Attila Kinali escribió:
But to bring this back to time nutty topics, have a look at
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
If you take into consideration that the best currently available DACs,
also true for analog circuits, have a dynamic range about 120-126dB, the
last
measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
If you take into consideration that the best currently available DACs,
also true for analog circuits, have a dynamic range about 120-126dB, the
last 3-4 bits are quite irrelevant (random noise mostly)... a good 20bit
DAC already
In message 4fa7fb9b.3040...@yahoo.com, Randy D. Hunt writes:
On 5/6/2012 7:39 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M-Rubidium-Atomic-Clock-/270809581736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3f0d8248a8
Make sure you read the description to discover what it's
In message d2251f0f290d4b1ab54e1a4dba345...@vectron.com, Bob Camp writes:
If you extend the bandwidth down low enough (as in low audio) the jitter
goes up quite a bit. In the case of audio, jitter at low frequencies just
might be something to worry about.
Not with the kind of physical laws I
In message 62172.12.6.201.2.1336409319.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. Fors
ter writes:
Suppose you have a perfect, ideal clock that puts out 'convert' pulses at
an exact rate is used to strobe a high precision A/D.
Now suppose you add jitter to that perfect clock so that the rate stays
the same
Analog Devices and Linear Technology have application notes on this
subject. At least with sampling converters, jitter directly limits
dynamic range.
My back of the envelope calculation comes up with about 25ps of RMS
jitter for an ideal 16 bit sampling converter at audio frequencies but
most
In message 4fa80913.7000...@medesign.ro, MailLists writes:
That was a big problem with the dynamic range of tape recorders, which
had to be solved with noise reduction circuits. Even good 16 bit ADCs
have a higher DR than the SNR of most instruments in quiet recording
studios.
Not so fast
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 18:15 +, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
We must start out by defining the acceptable level of total distortion,
if we choose 0.5% then we need 200 digital levels, roughly 8 of
your 16 bits for the signal.
That gives you a headroom of 7 bits (leaving one for the sign)
In message 1336415866.16321.14.camel@laptop, Dan Mills writes:
On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 18:15 +, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
16 bits is actually fine as a distribution format,
Yes, I agree with that, and lets use that agreement to stop the
topic :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
We must start out by defining the acceptable level of total distortion,
if we choose 0.5% then we need 200 digital levels, roughly 8 of
your 16 bits for the signal.
That gives you a headroom of 7 bits (leaving one
On 05/07/2012 08:15 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4fa80913.7000...@medesign.ro, MailLists writes:
That was a big problem with the dynamic range of tape recorders, which
had to be solved with noise reduction circuits. Even good 16 bit ADCs
have a higher DR than the SNR of most
In message cabbxvhuasdq-mwug6fmwc4ln-d3zkhegvpvvbpcprwxewgf...@mail.gmail.com
, Chris Albertson writes:
You are mixing recording and distribution. The 16-bit 44.1K CD
Quality is for distribution to consumers.
I'm old enough to have listend to comparisons when 16 bit 44.1KHz
was _both_ recoding
New question about jitter in recording.I was reading some time
ago about non-uniform sampling. Basically the time between samples is
random (or as random as you can make it) But now you have to sample a
clock AND the signal. Or more likely use a psuedorandon sample
interval that can be
In message cabbxvhtad_ewe_ptrmkifkrywzjfhw3xmypfev6b5su3xw+...@mail.gmail.com
, Chris Albertson writes:
Advantages are that you
can sample higher frequency than 1/2 the average sample rate and
alieasing is less a problem.
Disadvantage: on playback you get both a sample and a standard deviation
j...@quikus.com said:
Suppose you have a perfect, ideal clock that puts out 'convert' pulses at an
exact rate is used to strobe a high precision A/D.
Now suppose you add jitter to that perfect clock so that the rate stays the
same but time interval between successive pulses varies randomly
-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
An old saying: a fool and his money are often parted.
Sums things up nicely I feel.
Rob Kimberley
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
b...@att.net
www.biwa.cc
K6OQK
-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
An old saying: a fool and his money are often parted.
Sums things up nicely I feel.
Rob Kimberley
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
b...@att.net
www.biwa.cc
On Mon, May 07, 2012 at 08:28:41AM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
A crummy crystal oscillator zero beated to WWV is good to 1 in 10E6, a Rb
disciplined to GPS maybe 1 in 10E11.
Do you seriously think you, or anybody, can hear a pitch difference of
0.001 Hz in the audio range?
A quartz crystal
It's kinda a trick question.
The important thing is 'before anyone could detect any differences in the
sound?'
I was involved in making a decision to go with brand A or B speakers in a
roughly 1200 seat auditorium. There was a lot of political pressure to
choose brand B. IMO, brand A sounded
May we PLEASE go back the the intended purpose of this list.
Hadley
K7MLR
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
Peter Cooper, of Fermi Lab, says, Every experimentalist knows
that the apparatus, or at least your understanding of it, is
always at fault until
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M-Rubidium-Atomic-Clock-/270809581736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3f0d8248a8
Make sure you read the description to discover what it's being sold for.
My chuckle for the day.
Jim Palfreyman
___
It makes the audio sound better. Just like tubes and oxygen free speaker
cables.
Darn he has 8 offers already. Must say the front panel is much nicer then
what I build.
Regards
Paul
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com wrote:
For the 'Golden Ear' crowd
An Audiophool and his money are easily parted by a good sales pitch.
The same suckers buy $250,000 turntables and solid silver speaker wires.
YMMV,
-John
Swiss-made? FEI 5660? PRS10? US $5,995? Oh, dear indeed.
Nice to know the fiscal predators have predators to bite 'em.
Bill Hawkins
-Original Message-
From: Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 9:40 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh
, Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh dear
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Sunday, May 6, 2012, 7:39 PM
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M-Rubidium-Atomic
and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh dear
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio-Isochrone-10M-Rubidium-Atomic-Clock-/270809581736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3f0d8248a8
)
that this new cutting edge technology provides.
And, you won't need to darken the edges of your CDs with a black felt tipped
pen any longer.
--- On Sun, 5/6/12, Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Oh dear
To: Discussion of precise time
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oh dear
Instead of making fun of the web site, we all need to be more
entrepreneurial so that we can fleece, errr, that is, offer a
superior product to the audiophiles out there. Think of the add copy:
You don't
: [time-nuts] Oh dear
For the 'Golden Ear' crowd
An Audiophool and his money are easily parted by a good sales pitch.
The same suckers buy $250,000 turntables and solid silver
speaker wires.
YMMV,
-John
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Antelope-Audio
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