Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
One can easily buy 50 PPM/ degree metal film resistors. You can do much better than that. I don't know how much it matters if the bridge resistors are mounted near (temperature wise) the sensor. I poked 10K into Digikey, scrolled down to Resistors, selected through-hole, and picked 10K (there were a lot of false hits) and then 1, 2, and 5 ppm/C 1ppm/C, 0.01% is $18. 2ppm/C, 0.01% is $14. 5ppm/C, 0.05% is $2.75 ea, min qty is 10 5ppm/C, 0.1% is $1.41 ea, min qty is 10 I didn't find any 1 ppm/C in surface mount. For the ones I checked, prices are in the same ballpark. I'm not sure what values they already stock and/or which values they will order if nobody has asked for that value yet. (I assume they order a whole reel if somebody orders 10.) I donât know what a PID is but I agree about using a bridge circuit. PID is Proportional/Integral/Derivative It's the magic in a large class of feedback loops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller Letâs assume for example we want 80 C. for our oscillator. The Ni1000 is rated as 1482.5 ohms at 80C and 1489.1 ohms at 81C resulting in a change of about.0066 ohms per milli-degree. As stated earlier, the standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. or .000385 ohms per milli-degree. I assume you would pick handy values for 2 of the resistors, then adjust the 3rd resistor so the bridge is ballanced at the target temperature. By adjust I was thinking of starting with a good guess and adding a series/parallel resistor for the fine print. The idea is that you are aiming for a null. You adjust the target temperature by tweaking the resister balancing the sensor. The last unknown for me is what type of op-amp does one use? Look up Instrumentation Amplifier. One of the classic applications is reading a bridge. The typical package is 3 op-amps, 2 unity gain buffers as isolation stages feeding a 3rd op-amp that does the real work. Usually the package contains a few well matched resistors. Sometimes you need to add one more resistor to set the gain, sometimes you set the gain by tying a few pins high/low. Although the platinum sensor is superior can such a low value of change be used practically in a bridge circuit made by us time-nuts? How much gain do you need? Instrumentation amplifiers work fine when setup for gains like 1K. Rick Karlquist and crew have written a wonderful paper on this area. http://www.karlquist.com/oven.pdf I think things will be a lot easier if you can use a lot of volume for insulation. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:38:39 -0800 (PST) Perry Sandeen sandee...@yahoo.com wrote: List, My following comments are am exploratory thought process of which I don’t profess to know the answers. Perhaps in the future experiments will provide some. So here we start. The Ni1000 SOT temperature sensor is a nickel based unit that has a basic resistance of 1K ohms at 20 degrees C and a 6+ ohms (approx) change per degree. The sensitivity of a standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. Well, to make comparison a fair game, i'd suggest to take the relative resitance change instead of the absolute one. For one, one could take a PT1000 instead of a PT100 so both the Nickel and the Platinum start out at the same initial value of resistance. By that, the platinum resistor gets to 3.85 Ohms/°C, roughly half the sensitivity of nickel. Wrote: Nickel sensors are more stable than thermistors, but not as stable as platinum. The cost is more attractive than Pt, tho. Agreed. The platinum price I was able to find was about $30 each. So the Ni1000 is one tenth the price. Surely one could find nickel resistors for less than 3 bucks each, but platinum isn't that expensive either. Depending on how they're built (bare resistor or housed in stainless steel, cables attached or not), one can find them for about 6 USD / 4 EUR at well-known sources and for something like 10 USD / 7 EUR packs of five off eBay. For plain resistors, that is. On the other hand, at quick glance i haven't found nickel resistors at all. Temperature control modules that can work with them, sure, but no resistors. Strange... Wrote: I'd consider staying analog with a DC bridge and a PID control op-amp. You don't need a highly accurate voltage source for the bridge because null is null, whatever the excitation voltage. Of course, you'll want a stable null for the op-amp, too. I don’t know what a PID is but I agree about using a bridge circuit. Wrote: need a highly stable set of bridge resistors for a stable temperature. In the old days, precision, stable resistors were wound on ceramic forms by soldering a loop of e.g. constantan wire to the lead wires at each end of the form. Then you pull the loop at the center so that you can wind it on the core in a non-inductive manner. Snipped I have a number of them salvage from older test equipment. Using them in a small enclosed temperature control module is really impractical. One can easily buy 50 PPM/ degree metal film resistors. Probably sorting the two other branch resistors from a batch of 10 with a 4 1/2 digit or greater resolution DVM can provide an extremely well matched set. Let’s assume for example we want 80 C. for our oscillator. The Ni1000 is rated as 1482.5 ohms at 80C and 1489.1 ohms at 81C resulting in a change of about.0066 ohms per milli-degree. As stated earlier, the standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. or .000385 ohms per milli-degree. Although the platinum sensor is superior can such a low value of change be used practically in a bridge circuit made by us time-nuts? In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. That again works out to the same voltage swing. And as said, there are platinum sensors around with 1kOhm, also have seen 2k and IIRC 5k. On the other hand, the high-value platinum sensors generally aren't available in the highest accuracy bins. Another question is are we over-engineering a regulating circuit for the crystal, as in how sharp is the turning point? Will this be gold plating a Yugo? I have no idea. I’m bringing this up for discussion. Umm, is there such a thing as over-engineering to a time-nut? ;-) How sharp the turning point is strongly depends on how the crystal is cut. IIRC, SC-cut crystals tend to have a quite flat turning point somewhere around 50-80°C. Can't give you numbers on that though. But i'd guess to get to the point of zero tempco of the crystal and stay there, one would need to get within less than one degree C sonsistently. So you'll want to know the temperature with accuracy of at least 0.2°C. The thermostat will need fine-tuning anyways in order to accomodate all the unknowns like exact turnover temperature of your crystal, tempco of the other resistors, whatever. Wrote: Don't even think of using any kind of variable resistor to adjust the bridge null. What you want is a stable temperature near the value that gives the least crystal tempco. Agreed. But I have a question. If one was using the Ni1000 couldn’t one use say a 20 turn 10 ohm ceramic trimpot swamped with a 10 ohm resistor or a low value Beckmen 10 turn pot to find the center of the turning point? In my opinion, for finding the turning point a trimpot is okay. But then replace the
[time-nuts] OT loosing things
While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
In message 20101112110627.488cb...@vz127.worldserver.net, Florian E. Teply writes: In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... I don't know about temperature, but I've worked with load cells. The data sheet I just found on the web said 350 ohms at 10 V, so 28 mA, or 14 each side. That seems like a reasonable ballpark. That's 1/3 watt, but they are mounted on a blob of steel the size of my fist. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message20101112110627.488cb...@vz127.worldserver.net, Florian E. Teply writes: In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... Poul-Henning If the 100 ohm and and 1k sensor elements have the same thermal resistance then having 10x the current in a 100ohm element will increase its self heating by a factor of 10 over the 1k element. Its usually better to use an AC bridge (to minimise the effect of thermoemfs) or equivalent technique with lower sensor dissipation. There are examples of such bridges using platinum RTDs to achieve 50uK or better stability in the literature (about 40-50 years ago). If the sensor element has a thermal resistance of say 100K/W and a stability of 1mK is desired, any self heating should be stable to better than 1mK. Thus limiting the sensor self heating to perhaps 10mK or less is perhaps advisable. If the sensor thermal resistance is 100K/W then the the sensor dissipation be 100uW or less. With a 100 ohm sensor element the corresponding sensor current is 1mA or less. The sensor voltage then varies by about 385uV/K for a 100 ohm platinum RTD With a 1K platinum RTD dissipating the same power the sensor voltage tempco is 3.16x larger. One can also switch the bridge source polarity to achieve a similar effect to that of an AC bridge, some high resolution ADC chips have this capability (albeit using external excitation switches) built in. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
In message 4cdd1fce.4050...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes: Its usually better to use an AC bridge (to minimise the effect of thermoemfs) or equivalent technique with lower sensor dissipation. Hehe, I just finished doodleing an idea to use a chopper scheme to cancel out seebek effects and op-amp offset... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
Florian E. Teply wrote: On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:38:39 -0800 (PST) Perry Sandeensandee...@yahoo.com wrote: List, My following comments are am exploratory thought process of which I don’t profess to know the answers. Perhaps in the future experiments will provide some. So here we start. The Ni1000 SOT temperature sensor is a nickel based unit that has a basic resistance of 1K ohms at 20 degrees C and a 6+ ohms (approx) change per degree. The sensitivity of a standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. Well, to make comparison a fair game, i'd suggest to take the relative resitance change instead of the absolute one. For one, one could take a PT1000 instead of a PT100 so both the Nickel and the Platinum start out at the same initial value of resistance. By that, the platinum resistor gets to 3.85 Ohms/°C, roughly half the sensitivity of nickel. Wrote: Nickel sensors are more stable than thermistors, but not as stable as platinum. The cost is more attractive than Pt, tho. Agreed. The platinum price I was able to find was about $30 each. So the Ni1000 is one tenth the price. Surely one could find nickel resistors for less than 3 bucks each, but platinum isn't that expensive either. Depending on how they're built (bare resistor or housed in stainless steel, cables attached or not), one can find them for about 6 USD / 4 EUR at well-known sources and for something like 10 USD / 7 EUR packs of five off eBay. For plain resistors, that is. On the other hand, at quick glance i haven't found nickel resistors at all. Temperature control modules that can work with them, sure, but no resistors. Strange... Wrote: I'd consider staying analog with a DC bridge and a PID control op-amp. You don't need a highly accurate voltage source for the bridge because null is null, whatever the excitation voltage. Of course, you'll want a stable null for the op-amp, too. I don’t know what a PID is but I agree about using a bridge circuit. Wrote:need a highly stable set of bridge resistors for a stable temperature. In the old days, precision, stable resistors were wound on ceramic forms by soldering a loop of e.g. constantan wire to the lead wires at each end of the form. Then you pull the loop at the center so that you can wind it on the core in a non-inductive manner. Snipped I have a number of them salvage from older test equipment. Using them in a small enclosed temperature control module is really impractical. One can easily buy 50 PPM/ degree metal film resistors. Probably sorting the two other branch resistors from a batch of 10 with a 4 1/2 digit or greater resolution DVM can provide an extremely well matched set. Let’s assume for example we want 80 C. for our oscillator. The Ni1000 is rated as 1482.5 ohms at 80C and 1489.1 ohms at 81C resulting in a change of about.0066 ohms per milli-degree. As stated earlier, the standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. or .000385 ohms per milli-degree. Although the platinum sensor is superior can such a low value of change be used practically in a bridge circuit made by us time-nuts? In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. That again works out to the same voltage swing. And as said, there are platinum sensors around with 1kOhm, also have seen 2k and IIRC 5k. On the other hand, the high-value platinum sensors generally aren't available in the highest accuracy bins. Another question is are we over-engineering a regulating circuit for the crystal, as in how sharp is the turning point? Will this be gold plating a Yugo? I have no idea. I’m bringing this up for discussion. Umm, is there such a thing as over-engineering to a time-nut? ;-) How sharp the turning point is strongly depends on how the crystal is cut. IIRC, SC-cut crystals tend to have a quite flat turning point somewhere around 50-80°C. Can't give you numbers on that though. But i'd guess to get to the point of zero tempco of the crystal and stay there, one would need to get within less than one degree C sonsistently. So you'll want to know the temperature with accuracy of at least 0.2°C. The thermostat will need fine-tuning anyways in order to accomodate all the unknowns like exact turnover temperature of your crystal, tempco of the other resistors, whatever. Due to manufacturing tolerances not all crystals (eg Sc cut crystals) exhibit a turnover temperature. Wrote: Don't even think of using any kind of variable resistor to adjust the bridge null. What you want is a stable temperature near the value that gives the least crystal tempco. Agreed. But I have a question. If one was using the Ni1000 couldn’t one use say a 20 turn 10 ohm ceramic trimpot swamped with a 10 ohm resistor or a low value Beckmen 10 turn pot to find the
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
Hi The 100 ohm standard for RTD's dates way back. The assumption was that you had it on a *long* run of cable (2 pair / sense leads of course). The insulation leakage was a bigger issue than anything else in the equation. Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 20101112110627.488cb...@vz127.worldserver.net, Florian E. Teply writes: In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:36:15 + Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 20101112110627.488cb...@vz127.worldserver.net, Florian E. Teply writes: In a bridge circuit, you don't measure resistance directly, but use the voltage that appears across the bridge. So for a 100 ohms element, you'd usually have ten times the current flowing in that branch compared to a 1kohm element. This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... Exactly. Usually you want to avoid self-heating. There are two possibilites: a) Use low currents. Still you want to read your voltage precisely enough to make use fo the superior properties of platinum, so with 1 milliamp of current (roughly 100 uW power in a PT100), the .385 Ohms/°C make for 385 microvolts of signal for a 1 degree of temperature change. Yet the power dissipation in the resistor might still be too much, especially in very sensitive circuits. In a PT1000, 100 microamps will yield the same voltage swing in your signal but only 10 uW of power dissipation in your sensor. Generally speaking, in precision circuitry one would use as much current as reasonably possible to maximize the signal. The upper limit to the current is posed by the power dissipation in the sensor. For one, the system must not be disturbed by the power introduced by the sensor. And second, the difference between the platinum resistor internal temperature (that one sets the resistance) and the temperature to be controlled must be small enough. On the other hand, you can't get too low with current in order to not swamp the signal with noise (both thermal noise in the bridge resistors and noise imposed by the amplifying circuitry). You could still go lower with the current, but make sure the signal you want to see, say 20 microvolts for a 0.05 °C temperature change, is significantly above the noise. So, basically your amplification circuitry may not introduce more than very few microvolts of noise referred to the input. Plan b): Duty-cycling the measurement. That perfectly lends itself to digital circuitry, but is a tad more complicated in the analog domain. Basically what you do is power the bridge, measure the voltage and unpower it again. So if you measure the temperature once every second for, say, 10 milliseconds, you get only 1 percent of the power dissipation in the resistor on average. Given the thermal inertia of typical systems, once every second should be enough. But of course, you'll have to be careful not to introduce switching noise into your oscillator. The circuitry will be a lot more complex though. In both cases, given the slow thermal behaviour of the systems, you can low-pass filter the signal heavily. HTH, Florian ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
I liked the idea of fairies being the culprits but each to their own :) I think that the LW are not completely random, they definitely return your own stuff to you but I don't believe it is necessarily in the same place. Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve On 13/11/2010, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
The answer is much simpler: the object's wave function (quantum mechanics) can move the object, albeit with little probability :-) Best regards Frank On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: I liked the idea of fairies being the culprits but each to their own :) I think that the LW are not completely random, they definitely return your own stuff to you but I don't believe it is necessarily in the same place. Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve On 13/11/2010, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
As I understand it, the problem to be solved is stability to a millidegree or some such. That kind of accuracy is not required because the flat spot of crystal tempco is not narrow. +/- 1% would be accurate accuracy. For stability, you must remove all sources of variation. Self- heating is not a stability problem, it is an accuracy problem. Operating at the bridge null reduces the effect of bridge power variations. The challenge is to get enough gain from the low offset error amplifier to maintain the required error range without having so much gain that the loop is unstable. This usually means taking physical design steps to eliminate dead-time or lags in the heater control loop. Of course, you can't get to a millidegree from ambient with just one oven. And you can't eliminate time lags if you have any thermal mass. Note that you have the same loop stability problems if you use a crystal as the sensor and a counter as the detector. I worked for Rosemount (part of Emerson since 1976), a maker of industrial sensors including 100 ohm platinum. The four wire Kelvin connection offers the most accuracy, but frugal industry finds that a three wire connection is adequate for very long runs of cable. This connection puts a lead wire in both legs of the bridge. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:28 AM The 100 ohm standard for RTD's dates way back. The assumption was that you had it on a *long* run of cable (2 pair / sense leads of course). The insulation leakage was a bigger issue than anything else in the equation. On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
That's just a corellary to You always find things in the last place you look Of course that's true, because when you find it, you stop looking -John == [snip] Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
I'm sure some faeries are fairies... On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
And some are Faerie Queens. -John === I'm sure some faeries are fairies... On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
Why mess with bridges, etc? Analog Devices, among others, make solid state temperature sensors that are very good and put out linearized currents, something like 1 mV / Degree K. -John === List, My following comments are am exploratory thought process of which I donât profess to know the answers. Perhaps in the future experiments will provide some. So here we start. The Ni1000 SOT temperature sensor is a nickel based unit that has a basic resistance of 1K ohms at 20 degrees C and a 6+ ohms (approx) change per degree. The sensitivity of a standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. Wrote: Nickel sensors are more stable than thermistors, but not as stable as platinum. The cost is more attractive than Pt, tho. Agreed. The platinum price I was able to find was about $30 each. So the Ni1000 is one tenth the price. Wrote: I'd consider staying analog with a DC bridge and a PID control op-amp. You don't need a highly accurate voltage source for the bridge because null is null, whatever the excitation voltage. Of course, you'll want a stable null for the op-amp, too. I donât know what a PID is but I agree about using a bridge circuit. Wrote: need a highly stable set of bridge resistors for a stable temperature. In the old days, precision, stable resistors were wound on ceramic forms by soldering a loop of e.g. constantan wire to the lead wires at each end of the form. Then you pull the loop at the center so that you can wind it on the core in a non-inductive manner. Snipped I have a number of them salvage from older test equipment. Using them in a small enclosed temperature control module is really impractical. One can easily buy 50 PPM/ degree metal film resistors. Probably sorting the two other branch resistors from a batch of 10 with a 4 1/2 digit or greater resolution DVM can provide an extremely well matched set. Letâs assume for example we want 80 C. for our oscillator. The Ni1000 is rated as 1482.5 ohms at 80C and 1489.1 ohms at 81C resulting in a change of about.0066 ohms per milli-degree. As stated earlier, the standard platinum 100 ohm sensor is a nominal 0.385 ohm/°C. or .000385 ohms per milli-degree. Although the platinum sensor is superior can such a low value of change be used practically in a bridge circuit made by us time-nuts? Another question is are we over-engineering a regulating circuit for the crystal, as in how sharp is the turning point? Will this be gold plating a Yugo? I have no idea. Iâm bringing this up for discussion. Wrote: Don't even think of using any kind of variable resistor to adjust the bridge null. What you want is a stable temperature near the value that gives the least crystal tempco. Agreed. But I have a question. If one was using the Ni1000 couldnât one use say a 20 turn 10 ohm ceramic trimpot swamped with a 10 ohm resistor or a low value Beckmen 10 turn pot to find the center of the turning point? The last unknown for me is what type of op-amp does one use? Answers or contrarian opinions welcomed. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Temperature sensors and bridge amps
IC Instrumentation Amplifiers are very good these days both on offset and bias currents and voltages. They make bridge amps easy. Gain is selectable with one resistor. I still prefer IC sensors though. -John === As I understand it, the problem to be solved is stability to a millidegree or some such. That kind of accuracy is not required because the flat spot of crystal tempco is not narrow. +/- 1% would be accurate accuracy. For stability, you must remove all sources of variation. Self- heating is not a stability problem, it is an accuracy problem. Operating at the bridge null reduces the effect of bridge power variations. The challenge is to get enough gain from the low offset error amplifier to maintain the required error range without having so much gain that the loop is unstable. This usually means taking physical design steps to eliminate dead-time or lags in the heater control loop. Of course, you can't get to a millidegree from ambient with just one oven. And you can't eliminate time lags if you have any thermal mass. Note that you have the same loop stability problems if you use a crystal as the sensor and a counter as the detector. I worked for Rosemount (part of Emerson since 1976), a maker of industrial sensors including 100 ohm platinum. The four wire Kelvin connection offers the most accuracy, but frugal industry finds that a three wire connection is adequate for very long runs of cable. This connection puts a lead wire in both legs of the bridge. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:28 AM The 100 ohm standard for RTD's dates way back. The assumption was that you had it on a *long* run of cable (2 pair / sense leads of course). The insulation leakage was a bigger issue than anything else in the equation. On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:36 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: This was one of the things that I wondered about: How large currents are used ? Can't be too much because that would lead to self-heating... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
And thank you, Mr. Spenser... [?] On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:15 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: And some are Faerie Queens. -John === I'm sure some faeries are fairies... On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. 332.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SC-cut crystals
Dear time-nuts, If I want to play around with AT-cut crystals, it is trivial to pick them up. I have bags of 20 MHz AT-cut crystals laying around. I do not feel comfortable like hacking away on the 10811s I have. So, where do I find some SC-cut crystals to play around with? I don't need stellar performance. Think crude lab-hacks at this point. Any ideas? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SC-cut crystals
So, where do I find some SC-cut crystals to play around with? I don't need stellar performance. Think crude lab-hacks at this point. Any ideas? I got mine from Charles Wenzel. It think it failed his phase noise screening. Really nice guy, BTW. -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Actually, they are undoubtedly menahunes, brought from Hawaii in the wheel well of a jet... Don William H. Fite And thank you, Mr. Spenser... [?] On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:15 PM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: And some are Faerie Queens. -John === I'm sure some faeries are fairies... On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SC-cut crystals
Magnus Danielson wrote: Dear time-nuts, If I want to play around with AT-cut crystals, it is trivial to pick them up. I have bags of 20 MHz AT-cut crystals laying around. I do not feel comfortable like hacking away on the 10811s I have. So, where do I find some SC-cut crystals to play around with? I don't need stellar performance. Think crude lab-hacks at this point. Any ideas? Cheers, Magnus You could always dissect one of the cheap 5.55MHz OCXOs that you have to get a 10.000110MHz SC cut crystal. Note: The oscillator output is divided by 2 with a 74HC74A. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
IMO, a GPS and Rb is less needed than socks, but then I have cold feet. :) -John = Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
I want a mini-RFID with a hand-held remote (or an iPhone app), so that I could stick an RFID on (say) my car keys and then click on the little button for find car keys Surgically attaching that remote might be a problem, though. Regards Marshall On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:39 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, a GPS and Rb is less needed than socks, but then I have cold feet. :) -John = Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Losing things
I don't believe there are such things as fairies, etc. Unless you count the 4 foot 10 Filipino fairy that inhabits my house. I was bad enough to take my glasses off to work on something only to spend an hour afterward looking for them. Now, I have someone else to blame. She puts her glasses in the exact same place every night at bedtime and without fail asks where they are every morning. I have gotten in the habit of telling her that they are da'on, Tagalog for there. Every time I am looking for anything she will invariably say its over dere which is meaningless since dere is anywhere in the whole world except here. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Hi Your time nuts priorities obviously need to be re-calibrated... GPS's and Rb's (both plural) are definitely on the list ahead of socks. Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:39 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, a GPS and Rb is less needed than socks, but then I have cold feet. :) -John = Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Maybe... if you put them on the floor under the desk and put your feet on them. -John == Hi Your time nuts priorities obviously need to be re-calibrated... GPS's and Rb's (both plural) are definitely on the list ahead of socks. Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:39 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, a GPS and Rb is less needed than socks, but then I have cold feet. :) -John = Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Many years ago, back in the early days of personal computers and email, we had an email list called junk. It was a free-for-all with lots of people on it. One day, somebody asked if anybody had any spare coat hangers. Somebody responded that they seemed to be breeding in his closet. It morphed into a discussion of the sex lives of coat hangers and exploded into one of the longest threads anybody had ever seen. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
http://www.keyringer.com/ -John == Hi Your time nuts priorities obviously need to be re-calibrated... GPS's and Rb's (both plural) are definitely on the list ahead of socks. Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 5:39 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, a GPS and Rb is less needed than socks, but then I have cold feet. :) -John = Hi Socks? Obviously an un-needed item ... Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. -John = On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are. Maybe high-end socks? -Dave - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. -John = On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Well, how often do you loose your daughters socks? - Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of d.sei...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:10 PM To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are. Maybe high-end socks? -Dave - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. -John = On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
LOL- They don't get lost, it's mine that vanish and turn up randomly. Dave - Original Message - From: Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:35:54 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Well, how often do you loose your daughters socks? - Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of d.sei...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:10 PM To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are. Maybe high-end socks? -Dave - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. -John = On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Well, you know, one never knows. Thought maybe you liked them :). - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of d.sei...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:44 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things LOL- They don't get lost, it's mine that vanish and turn up randomly. Dave - Original Message - From: Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:35:54 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Well, how often do you loose your daughters socks? - Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of d.sei...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:10 PM To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are. Maybe high-end socks? -Dave - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quik.com To: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. -John = On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list --
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Relax - we all need a little humbleness and humor every once in a while. Besides, I am honestly beginning to doubt the usefulness of ADEV in today's communications systems, and yet it seems we are stuck on it. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mike S Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Sigh. It used to be this was one of the most focused, on-topic email reflectors available, instead of the typical fill-your-inbox-with-offtopic-crap ones. How things have changed. CALL FOR MODERATION. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Not only losing things.. I have a problem with screw drivers changing sex. There is never a cross-point screw driver when you find a cross-point screw, just dozens of straight blade screwdrivers. Next time, when it is a straight slot screw there are dozens of cross point screw drivers but no straight blade screw drivers. cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
The discussion is just heading toward the measurement of the time it takes for disappeared things to re appear. At 13-11-2010, you wrote: Sigh. It used to be this was one of the most focused, on-topic email reflectors available, instead of the typical fill-your-inbox-with-offtopic-crap ones. How things have changed. CALL FOR MODERATION. -- Raj, VU2ZAP Bangalore, India. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Losing things
On 13 November 2010 12:00, John Green wpxs...@gmail.com wrote: I don't believe there are such things as fairies, etc. Unless you count the 4 foot 10 Filipino fairy that inhabits my house. I was bad enough to take my glasses off to work on something only to spend an hour afterward looking for them. Now, I have someone else to blame. She puts her glasses in the exact same place every night at bedtime and without fail asks where they are every morning. I have gotten in the habit of telling her that they are da'on, Tagalog for there. Every time I am looking for anything she will invariably say its over dere which is meaningless since dere is anywhere in the whole world except here. My elderly Mother is just like that, she tidies things away and then never knows where she put them. I dread doing jobs at her place that take more than one day as she always makes the place look nice inbetween and I spend a lot of the second day just trying to find things that the 5 foot 2, and getting smaller all the time, English fairy has squirelled away. Cheers, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Mike Feher wrote: Relax - we all need a little humbleness and humor every once in a while. Besides, I am honestly beginning to doubt the usefulness of ADEV in today's communications systems, and yet it seems we are stuck on it. Regards - Mike You just need to look at a different kind of communication system. If you're working at 8 bps like I do, or you want to measure the distance to a spacecraft around Saturn with an accuracy of millimeters, ADEV is important. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
Hi You and a lot of other people. There have been a *lot* of papers using ADEV as an example of what not to do in the past two years. Bob On Nov 12, 2010, at 8:15 PM, Mike Feher wrote: Relax - we all need a little humbleness and humor every once in a while. Besides, I am honestly beginning to doubt the usefulness of ADEV in today's communications systems, and yet it seems we are stuck on it. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-901-9193 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mike S Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things Sigh. It used to be this was one of the most focused, on-topic email reflectors available, instead of the typical fill-your-inbox-with-offtopic-crap ones. How things have changed. CALL FOR MODERATION. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 03:40, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. Sounds like strong evidence for the existance of Faeries and their nefarious ways. Steve On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: I liked the idea of fairies being the culprits but each to their own :) I think that the LW are not completely random, they definitely return your own stuff to you but I don't believe it is necessarily in the same place. Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve On 13/11/2010, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 05:49, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure some faeries are fairies... Ha, ha, ha... I can assure you, the fairies at the bottom of my garden are faeries and not the other type which we used to call Liberals way back in England :) I guess that context and cultural differences are something to keep an eye on or you will be labled as off with the faeries. Steve On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 09:22, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... The chaos theory would explain the randomdomness and the chaos that the LW brings to our lives :) As chaos theory is part and parcel of the Unverse, I have adopted it into my own life and now live in a totally chaotic way. I figure that it is the ecological thing to do even though it frequently, read mostly, ends up working against me. :) Cheers, Steve Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 16:14, Raj vu2...@gmail.com wrote: The discussion is just heading toward the measurement of the time it takes for disappeared things to re appear. I think that my original post may have been sent to the wrong group, Raj :) Cheers, Steve At 13-11-2010, you wrote: Sigh. It used to be this was one of the most focused, on-topic email reflectors available, instead of the typical fill-your-inbox-with-offtopic-crap ones. How things have changed. CALL FOR MODERATION. -- Raj, VU2ZAP Bangalore, India. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
