Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt no UTC offset
On 05/02/2012 03:50 AM, Dennis Ferguson wrote: On 2 May, 2012, at 04:30 , Tom Van Baak wrote: The UTC offset is in words 6-10, page 18, subframe 4 -- every 12.5 minutes. /tvb The leap second warning is also in the same place. How the unit could know that a leap second is pending but not know the UTC offset is a mystery. Well, there is such things as software bugs. The upcoming leapsecond is kind of unique as it has been a very long time since the last in June, which was June 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second So, it is not surprising that there can be some issues with it. As I recall, the format of the GPS message is such that one should be able to execute it correctly even if one does not know the rules. The bugs I have seen comes from software trying to apply the rules, but does it incorrectly. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Sw for pm6680B
With the 350pS single shot resolution the PM6680 can't replace the 20pS of the 5370. Keep the 5370 as well. The PM6681 is 50pS. The SR620 is 25pS. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Pierre-François (f5bqp_pfm) pfmo...@wanadoo.fr wrote: Hi Nigel, Magnus, Bjorn the Gang, Thanks for all your replies to my initial message, I appreciate very much. I downloaded the lastest version of TimeLab and will try it soon, I just tested the counter against my 5370B and my different Rubidium sources. Nigel, if you're referring to the 6680B which was on The Frenchy Bay last week, yes it's me, sorry if you were also on the deal... I would have preferred a PM6681, but no luck, it was a 6680B version, may be one day if necessary, don't know yet if it's. The old mummy arrived some days ago, I tested it, it works great, at least the basic function I tested. The OCXO has to be tuned properly, however as I'll use it in the lab driven by a PRS10 Rubidium 1pps synchronized with a Z3816 GPS rig so it's not a big issue. The question I'm wondering : Does the PM6680B (or PM6681B) replace completely a 5370B? My two main problems with the 5370B are the noise and the heat (then the AC consumption)! Also the 5370B on the bench is much more heavy compared to the PM6680B... So I'm not sure if one replace the other, so keeping the 5370B is certainly preferable?... Don't know... :-\ Your advises are welcome. All the bests to all of you and enjoy your toys... pf, f5bqp __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt no UTC offset
In my opinion nothing has to be changed. It is working OK this way. To improve performance it is worth to use linear regulators for the power supply +12V and -12V that are related to the OCXO supply and EFC. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:24 AM, francesco messineo francesco.messi...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/2/12, Dennis Ferguson dennis.c.fergu...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 May, 2012, at 04:30 , Tom Van Baak wrote: The UTC offset is in words 6-10, page 18, subframe 4 -- every 12.5 minutes. /tvb The leap second warning is also in the same place. How the unit could know that a leap second is pending but not know the UTC offset is a mystery. that's why I asked in the first place... all was green but the leap second pending which I'd expected to be there anyway. The UTC offset came much time later anyway. I don't know if the tbolt could be confused or had some firmware issue after being unpowered for some months. By the way, attached is a plot of signal levels with the new antenna, I'm interested in opinions about what can be changed in the settings to maybe improve performance. Thanks Frank IZ8DWF Dennis Ferguson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] thunderbolt no UTC offset
I think the tbolt may need to go through two 12.5 minute almanac cycles before it updates/outputs all its data... The first thing to do to improve performance is to run the a oscillator autotune command. This will determine the correct osc gain and initial DAC settings. It will also set the TC and damping values and the antenna elevation and signal level filter values. Before running the a command you should set the antenna elevation filter to a low value, clear the signal level history, and let the unit collect signal data for a few hours. That way it can determine the angle where your antenna begins to lose data. The other thing to do is to run the 48 hour precision antenna position survey. Finally, you may want to implement the active temperature control. -- I'm interested in opinions about what can be changed in the settings to maybe improve performance. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
I personally like the simplicity of this one. Material cost quite low, but takes a good team effort. http://iprl.wz.cz/ Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Sw for pm6680B
In a message dated 02/05/2012 04:14:19 GMT Daylight Time, pfmo...@wanadoo.fr writes: Nigel, if you're referring to the 6680B which was on The Frenchy Bay last week, yes it's me, sorry if you were also on the deal... No problem, the one I saw was in the US, same seller had another listed this week, it came up on one of my regular searches and I was just watching it out of interest:-) regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
I have noticed that it tends to lag when you stay on the page a while. I am sure that is just a matter of a simple adjustment... Thanks for the link :) Didier KO4BB --Original Message-- From: Rob Kimberley Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com To: Time-Nuts ReplyTo: Time-Nuts Subject: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project Sent: May 2, 2012 4:10 AM I personally like the simplicity of this one. Material cost quite low, but takes a good team effort. http://iprl.wz.cz/ Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt no UTC offset
Correction: the UTC offset is part of the *primary* data packet that is sent every second from the Thunderbolt, but as Tom pointed out, it has to receive the information from the satellite(s) first, which can take 12.5 minutes (Thunderbolt Users Guide, version 5, 2003, page A-56, paragraph Report Packet 0x8F-AB Primary Timing Packet) Until it has received the information, the UTC offset is represented as 0, which can certainly be confusing. The Leap Second Pending bit is part of the *secondary* data packet sent by the Thunderbolt every second as well. The manual does not say how often the leap second pending information is sent from the birds. Since I rarely turn my Thunderbolts off, and I display GPS time by default, I had not noticed the delay after power up. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:17 PM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: From memory, the UTC offset is part of the Supplemental data packet that is sent every second by default. Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 11:41:22 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt no UTC offset francesco.messi...@gmail.com said: I just powered on again my trimble thunderbolt after some time without antenna. All alarms are green but the obvious leap second pending. BUT: I can't use UTC time as both tboltmon and lady heather display a No UTC offset message. I don't remember having seen this in the past. What's wrong with the thunderbolt now? How long has it been on? The UTC offset comes from the satellites. I think it is only sent every hour. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Hi T-Nuts In january 2012 - I bought a Prologix GPIB interface from an Italian Seller sglabs on the Bay. Today i received a mail from the seller SNIP * I need a favor form you… Here in Italy is requiring by law…. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday… I’m sorry to disturb for this reason, but I need help from you. Thanks for collaboration Best regards SNIP * The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... TIA CFO - Tnut beginner Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Hello, Most likely a phishing mail. Please ignore. We will let SgLabs know. Regards. Abdul -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 8:48 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? Hi T-Nuts In january 2012 - I bought a Prologix GPIB interface from an Italian Seller sglabs on the Bay. Today i received a mail from the seller SNIP * I need a favor form you… Here in Italy is requiring by law…. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday… I’m sorry to disturb for this reason, but I need help from you. Thanks for collaboration Best regards SNIP * The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... TIA CFO - Tnut beginner Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
No, Italian law doesn't require DOB or place of birth registering for purchases, I suspect his email has been hi-jacked by someone who's attempting to get into the identity theft business. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: 02 May 2012 16:48 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? : Here in Italy is requiring by law.. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Sadly; It is currently one of the few growth industries in the EU. Thomas Knox From: david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:30:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? No, Italian law doesn't require DOB or place of birth registering for purchases, I suspect his email has been hi-jacked by someone who's attempting to get into the identity theft business. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: 02 May 2012 16:48 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? : Here in Italy is requiring by law.. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Lucky those who don't have to live in the EU!! Rob K (UK) -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Knox Sent: 02 May 2012 17:35 To: Time-Nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? Sadly; It is currently one of the few growth industries in the EU. Thomas Knox From: david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:30:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? No, Italian law doesn't require DOB or place of birth registering for purchases, I suspect his email has been hi-jacked by someone who's attempting to get into the identity theft business. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: 02 May 2012 16:48 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? : Here in Italy is requiring by law.. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
It is not much better in the States, Lately I have been thinking about selling my identity to make a little extra money. Thomas Knox From: robkimber...@btinternet.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:39:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? Lucky those who don't have to live in the EU!! Rob K (UK) -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Knox Sent: 02 May 2012 17:35 To: Time-Nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? Sadly; It is currently one of the few growth industries in the EU. Thomas Knox From: david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:30:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? No, Italian law doesn't require DOB or place of birth registering for purchases, I suspect his email has been hi-jacked by someone who's attempting to get into the identity theft business. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: 02 May 2012 16:48 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? : Here in Italy is requiring by law.. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
And as a first step you might want to tell eBay. Contrary to the general impression they do care :^( Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Sw for pm6680B
On 05/02/2012 09:52 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: With the 350pS single shot resolution the PM6680 can't replace the 20pS of the 5370. Keep the 5370 as well. The PM6681 is 50pS. The SR620 is 25pS. Exactly what I wanted to point out. The 5370 has very good noise floor, so you want that until you have something significantly better. However, the PM6680 is much niftier for day-to-day work and for many long-term measures is far than sufficient anyway. If the noise annoys you on the fan, replace it with a more quiet fan from this millenium. Also mount a fan on the heat-sink, as it burns a little too much for self-convection to work well for that heatsink. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Sw for pm6680B
Hi Pierre-François, On 05/02/2012 05:13 AM, Pierre-François (f5bqp_pfm) wrote: Hi Nigel, Magnus, Bjorn the Gang, Thanks for all your replies to my initial message, I appreciate very much. I downloaded the lastest version of TimeLab and will try it soon, I just tested the counter against my 5370B and my different Rubidium sources. Enjoy your TimeLab. It's particularly educational to see the ADEV and HDEV curves flap up and down in the top tau range displayed, and then for shorter taus it will stabilize as more data has been gathered, and then as measurement continues, the curve stabilizes for mid-range taus. The old mummy arrived some days ago, I tested it, it works great, at least the basic function I tested. The OCXO has to be tuned properly, however as I'll use it in the lab driven by a PRS10 Rubidium 1pps synchronized with a Z3816 GPS rig so it's not a big issue. That's not a bad way to go. Trimming the OCXO is a bit optional if you slave it to the 10 MHz, but good if you want to use it free-running at some later time. The question I'm wondering : Does the PM6680B (or PM6681B) replace completely a 5370B? My two main problems with the 5370B are the noise and the heat (then the AC consumption)! Also the 5370B on the bench is much more heavy compared to the PM6680B... So I'm not sure if one replace the other, so keeping the 5370B is certainly preferable?... Don't know... :-\ Your advises are welcome. As I mentioned in a separate comment, no, the PM6680B does not completely replace your 5370B. All the bests to all of you and enjoy your toys... We always do! Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
At this URL I get something called Samwell what what in the butt, not a clock. Maybe I did not watch long enough? Don Rob Kimberley I personally like the simplicity of this one. Material cost quite low, but takes a good team effort. http://iprl.wz.cz/ Rob Kimberley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
Rob, On 05/02/2012 11:10 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: I personally like the simplicity of this one. Material cost quite low, but takes a good team effort. http://iprl.wz.cz/ They have people working on it around the clock. It is a bit unclear where one inserts 10 MHz and PPS, but it is clear that it's a multiple ladder implementation. I fear that its environmental properties is sub-optimal, and will fail on heavy wind conditions. But in general, hat's of for the czecks! Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
On 5/2/2012 5:47 PM, cfo wrote: The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... I am from Italy, and I can assure you that such info is not required by any Italian law. Don't give away information that could in the end result in an identity thief... I receive daily emails form all over the world, alerting me that I won this and that.. etc and in order to receive my prizes I have to send them such kind of information, together with employer name, phone number, etc. etc. Luckily Mail Washer does all the dirty work for me, and those emails are immediately put where they belong, i.e. the round file :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
On Wed, 02 May 2012 09:58:53 -0700, Dan Rae wrote: And as a first step you might want to tell eBay. Contrary to the general impression they do care :^( Dan Done ... Reported to ebay PayPal CFO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
is not impression it is personal experience ebay does not care. Specially when it comes to volume sellers, a seller that time nuts use promised to pay shipping to return crap, gave me a choice give 5 star rating or no refund. Contacted ebay with the evidence, they did nothing and I did not get my money. In a message dated 5/2/2012 1:00:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dan...@verizon.net writes: And as a first step you might want to tell eBay. Contrary to the general impression they do care :^( Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Are they trying to steal your identity? Sounds like a couple of good pieces of info to know! Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of cfo Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:48 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? Hi T-Nuts In january 2012 - I bought a Prologix GPIB interface from an Italian Seller sglabs on the Bay. Today i received a mail from the seller SNIP * I need a favor form you… Here in Italy is requiring by law…. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday… I’m sorry to disturb for this reason, but I need help from you. Thanks for collaboration Best regards SNIP * The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... TIA CFO - Tnut beginner Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Clearly a scam attempt, IMO. You have your stuff. You are not bound by Italian law, unless the EU is worse than I thought. IMO, ignore it, and if the purchase was made through eBay, report it as a phishing attempt. YMMV, -John === Hi T-Nuts In january 2012 - I bought a Prologix GPIB interface from an Italian Seller sglabs on the Bay. Today i received a mail from the seller SNIP * I need a favor form you⦠Here in Italy is requiring by lawâ¦. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday⦠Iâm sorry to disturb for this reason, but I need help from you. Thanks for collaboration Best regards SNIP * The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... TIA CFO - Tnut beginner Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
That's what I get too. I would say that someone has substituted the gay black porn music video for the real website... in other words, the DNS has been hacked. Does anyone have the correct IP address (in dot code.)? -Chuck Harris Don Latham wrote: At this URL I get something called Samwell what what in the butt, not a clock. Maybe I did not watch long enough? Don ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
On 05/02/2012 07:48 PM, Alberto di Bene wrote: I am from Italy, and I can assure you that such info is not required by any Italian law. Don't give away information that could in the end result in an identity thief... Alberto, I'm not an expert in the ever-changing italian fiscal laws, but as far as I understood recent dispositions (to fight VAT evasion) may require to have the birth date and place for private foreign customers (see spesometro), at least for purchases over a certain amount. Anyway, better to try to contact the seller for clarifications... Regards, Claudio ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Never seen a request like that before... usually they try to get login credentials for home banking, credit cards accounts and the like. Here in Italy, every transaction with the tax authority starts with the VAT ID (our codice fiscale). On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:20 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: Clearly a scam attempt, IMO. You have your stuff. You are not bound by Italian law, unless the EU is worse than I thought. IMO, ignore it, and if the purchase was made through eBay, report it as a phishing attempt. YMMV, -John === Hi T-Nuts In january 2012 - I bought a Prologix GPIB interface from an Italian Seller sglabs on the Bay. Today i received a mail from the seller SNIP * I need a favor form you… Here in Italy is requiring by law…. that for all customers that have bought something from us, I need to have also birthplace and birthday… I’m sorry to disturb for this reason, but I need help from you. Thanks for collaboration Best regards SNIP * The mail actually looks quite authentic , Correct name phone# etc. But i have never heard of such a request before. And was wondering if any Italian T-Nut could verify that this request is valid. It seems a bit strange to me ... TIA CFO - Tnut beginner Denmark ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
On 05/02/2012 09:28 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: That's what I get too. I would say that someone has substituted the gay black porn music video for the real website... in other words, the DNS has been hacked. Does anyone have the correct IP address (in dot code.)? At least a few snap-shots: http://marinevisart.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/httpiprl-wz-cz-by/ Wonder if they got hacked or what. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
From the pics in the link, that clock was noted here a year or so ago. At that time the link worked for a video of some guys building and updating a 2x4 version of a seven segment display in real lime. -John On 05/02/2012 09:28 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: That's what I get too. I would say that someone has substituted the gay black porn music video for the real website... in other words, the DNS has been hacked. Does anyone have the correct IP address (in dot code.)? At least a few snap-shots: http://marinevisart.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/httpiprl-wz-cz-by/ Wonder if they got hacked or what. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
The reason may be trivial. Ask the seller, he is a correct person. Anyway, the birthplace and DOB of a person are very easy to obtain on the web - it would be a stupid scam. But knowing the seller, I'm sure it is not. Being a dealer too, you can't believe the number of fiscal rules we have to obey. Accounting for the sale to a private customer outside Italy may be a nightmare. 73 - Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Interesting Clock Project
On 05/02/2012 09:44 PM, J. Forster wrote: From the pics in the link, that clock was noted here a year or so ago. At that time the link worked for a video of some guys building and updating a 2x4 version of a seven segment display in real lime. It still did this today when I saw and shared it with colleagues. Maybe somebody hacked it as it re-appeared. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchin jmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Magnus, you are correct but can I avoid to list our beloved counters/analyzers? The time-nut main tool is the TIC. Anyway, to correct the PPS input for the PRS10 the hardware approach is a must: so a delay line and a microprocessor are needed. Unless the SRS can develop a suitable software for the PRS10 (an inverted TTL serial line is already present) to read the M12+. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Jerry, Magnus, Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. But do not have a large PLL time-constant, while you are checking basic functionality. Time-constants are shown in a table on page 35 in the manual. With default (PT=8) settings it will take hours for the pll to get close in. Any tinkering with moving the pulse (PP) or delay calibration (TO) will take forever to show if you got the sign right or hade the right offset size... ;-( Calibrate the Time offset (TO) according to the example on page 32 in the manual, by looping the 1pps_out to 1pps_in on the PRS10, keep in mind that you should use the cable, buffers, etc that later will take your GPS 1PPS to the 1PPS_in on the PRS, so that you really take care of all delay from the GPS 1pps to the PRS10, including internal PRS10 delays, that might have changed from previous calibration. Also have in mind that the 1pps disciplining wants 256 good measurements in a row just to start closing the PLL. Take the time constant down to 0, and make yourself confident that all offset calibrations are right and that you are tracking the right edge of the GPS 1PPS etc. After all tinkering to get the basics right then increase the time-constant to filter out 1PPS noise and outliers. To check performance later, you could check that the PRS10 timetag (TT) stays very low, by polling each second and logg these values. I am not at all an expert on PRS10. Have spent the weekend trying to get two units to sync to each other. I would like to have a simple (quick feedback) way of making sure that most time bias'es are removed. A free-running Tbolt for example gives a low noise 1PPS, and quickly tracking that, would make bias elimination much less time consuming. Anyone having an efficiant scheme for setting up a PRS10? -- Björn On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Hi Azelio, On 05/02/2012 10:30 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Magnus, you are correct but can I avoid to list our beloved counters/analyzers? The time-nut main tool is the TIC. Hehe, yes. But you can do great things even with a spare HP5335A for instance. It's quite respectable with about 1 ns resolution in this context. I have not tried using the SIA-3000 for TIC purposes. Just getting into the machine GPIB-wise is a bit of a challenge. Anyway, to correct the PPS input for the PRS10 the hardware approach is a must: so a delay line and a microprocessor are needed. Unless the SRS can develop a suitable software for the PRS10 (an inverted TTL serial line is already present) to read the M12+. Well, look at the Spectratime SRO-100, which already has that feature. http://www.spectratime.com/products/isync/gps-disciplined/SRO-100 Architecture-wise it is very similar to the FEI 5680, a 60 MHz VCXO, DDS for FLL and then DDS for output. PPS input and output makes you think about PRS-10. The PPS input has about 1 ns resolution. Now, there is a few things which differs from the PRS-10. It move it's internal (and later also its output) PPS to align up to the PPS reference. It hence does not need an output alignment. This makes the 7,5 MHz clock (133 ns cycle) less critical. BTW I do the same in my products. The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up, something which is critical to some applications. Also, it can take info from Jupiter-T, OnCore, M12+ and SuperStar II receivers for detailed timing info. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Hi Marco, I disagree. This is personal information and is restricted by data protection law in the EU. It is commonly used for financial activity identity checks. I would never give this information to an unknown third party. As an aside, Italy has the greatest lost parcel rate of any country I post to. I don't know why this is but I now send everything to Italy by an insured, signed for service. Robert G8RPI. From: Marco IK1ODO ik1...@spin-it.com To: j...@quikus.com; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2012, 20:50 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? The reason may be trivial. Ask the seller, he is a correct person. Anyway, the birthplace and DOB of a person are very easy to obtain on the web - it would be a stupid scam. But knowing the seller, I'm sure it is not. Being a dealer too, you can't believe the number of fiscal rules we have to obey. Accounting for the sale to a private customer outside Italy may be a nightmare. 73 - Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
I cannot believe my Guidetech GT4000 was left off your list. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 22:11:25 +0200 From: mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up, something which is critical to some applications. Yes, for example the DVB-T SFN requires the PPS and 10MHz phases to be aligned, better, not to move. This requires to slightly alter the 10MHz to keep the PPS aligned. Let me ask Bjorn: did you succeed in aligning the two PRS10? Moreover, what do you mean by each other, a scheme like this: |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Azelio, On 05/02/2012 10:30 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Magnus, you are correct but can I avoid to list our beloved counters/analyzers? The time-nut main tool is the TIC. Hehe, yes. But you can do great things even with a spare HP5335A for instance. It's quite respectable with about 1 ns resolution in this context. I have not tried using the SIA-3000 for TIC purposes. Just getting into the machine GPIB-wise is a bit of a challenge. Anyway, to correct the PPS input for the PRS10 the hardware approach is a must: so a delay line and a microprocessor are needed. Unless the SRS can develop a suitable software for the PRS10 (an inverted TTL serial line is already present) to read the M12+. Well, look at the Spectratime SRO-100, which already has that feature. http://www.spectratime.com/products/isync/gps-disciplined/SRO-100 Architecture-wise it is very similar to the FEI 5680, a 60 MHz VCXO, DDS for FLL and then DDS for output. PPS input and output makes you think about PRS-10. The PPS input has about 1 ns resolution. Now, there is a few things which differs from the PRS-10. It move it's internal (and later also its output) PPS to align up to the PPS reference. It hence does not need an output alignment. This makes the 7,5 MHz clock (133 ns cycle) less critical. BTW I do the same in my products. The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up, something which is critical to some applications. Also, it can take info from Jupiter-T, OnCore, M12+ and SuperStar II receivers for detailed timing info. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
I'm so sorry for the inconvenience but I wasn't aware of this CTIA supreme piece of test equipment... now I know. This CTIA is mainly intended for very high speed serial interconnect and Gigabit ethernet test. On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I cannot believe my Guidetech GT4000 was left off your list. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 22:11:25 +0200 From: mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Björn, On 05/02/2012 10:54 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Jerry, Magnus, Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. But do not have a large PLL time-constant, while you are checking basic functionality. Time-constants are shown in a table on page 35 in the manual. With default (PT=8) settings it will take hours for the pll to get close in. Any tinkering with moving the pulse (PP) or delay calibration (TO) will take forever to show if you got the sign right or hade the right offset size... ;-( Yes, PT8 gives an 18 hour time-constant, forgot that. Calibrate the Time offset (TO) according to the example on page 32 in the manual, by looping the 1pps_out to 1pps_in on the PRS10, keep in mind that you should use the cable, buffers, etc that later will take your GPS 1PPS to the 1PPS_in on the PRS, so that you really take care of all delay from the GPS 1pps to the PRS10, including internal PRS10 delays, that might have changed from previous calibration. Yes, that would be meaningful for the time-offset. It's the second example on page 32, as the first example relates to the time-slope parameter. Also have in mind that the 1pps disciplining wants 256 good measurements in a row just to start closing the PLL. Indeed. See page 17 for the steps. Take the time constant down to 0, and make yourself confident that all offset calibrations are right and that you are tracking the right edge of the GPS 1PPS etc. After all tinkering to get the basics right then increase the time-constant to filter out 1PPS noise and outliers. To check performance later, you could check that the PRS10 timetag (TT) stays very low, by polling each second and logg these values. I am not at all an expert on PRS10. Have spent the weekend trying to get two units to sync to each other. I would like to have a simple (quick feedback) way of making sure that most time bias'es are removed. A free-running Tbolt for example gives a low noise 1PPS, and quickly tracking that, would make bias elimination much less time consuming. Anyone having an efficiant scheme for setting up a PRS10? Well, it is a good idea to lock-in with PT0, to make it quickly track frequency, and then step through PT1, PT2 etc until the final time-constant has been reached. The trick is that you let any remaining frequency error ring out before you step to the next level. Whenever you do a tracking loop, the averaged frequency will vary, and the noise will constitute an frequency error if going into hold-over. The peak noise voltage will be a result of the loop bandwidth filtering. Tracking into the hold-over directly will take time, but stepping it will work as you quickly will track in the coarse part, and then only have to track in the remainder. For longer time-constants, it will still take time to reach it, but you will get there quicker by doing this sequential stepping. I haven't had time to try it on my PRS-10, but I think you get the general idea. A PI-loop is very cooperative to this approach, and the implementation supports this, since the I term is scaled on the input side of the integrator, so the accumulated state would not have to be scaled as you step the time-constant, which could be cumbersome in some other designs. Also, be aware that you may want to use the pre-filtering (LM1) with noisy sources. It should be enabled by default. Pre-filtering when properly used (as in this case) gives you a -12 dB/Oct slope rather than -6 dB/Oct slope, which is really helpful as you can keep the time-constant fairly low for the same suppression capability of noise, giving you a quicker track-in time. A fairly simple PIC/AVR/whatever design should be able to do the magic of re-aligning the PRS-10 input delay compensation (TO) as response to any time-adjustment values, thus simulating the SRO-100 functionality. It could also manage such tuned trackin. A Linux machine and a few lines of code would probably be a good starting-point. ;) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Hi Azelio, On 05/02/2012 11:19 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up,something which is critical to some applications. Yes, for example the DVB-T SFN requires the PPS and 10MHz phases to be aligned, better, not to move. This requires to slightly alter the 10MHz to keep the PPS aligned. Actually, DVB-T SFN doesn't really require that. It is claimed that some transmitters do require it, but I still want hard evidence for that. I keep hearing strange interpretations of what DVB-T SFN really requires. The spec leaves room for improvement. Let me ask Bjorn: did you succeed in aligning the two PRS10? Moreover, what do you mean by each other, a scheme like this: |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... PRS10A PRS10B PPSOUT -- PPSIN PPSIN -- PPSOUT I believe he meant. I also believe he used a separate source for the later experiment. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up, something which is critical to some applications. Yes, for example the DVB-T SFN requires the PPS and 10MHz phases to be aligned, better, not to move. This requires to slightly alter the 10MHz to keep the PPS aligned. Let me ask Bjorn: did you succeed in aligning the two PRS10? Somewhat... I had a stable offset between the 10MHz PRS10 signals of almost 8ns, moving +-2.5ns over some hours. Moreover, what do you mean by each other, a scheme like this: |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... Almost, I also let the PRS10A be steered by a Tbolt. PLL settings 8 on PRS10A, and 0 on PRS10B, which should make PRS10B quick enough to follow any wiggle the PRS10A do slowly following its Tbolt supplied PPS_in. I had locked Tbolt 1PPS going into PPS_IN of PRS10A PPS Out of PRS10A going into PPS_IN of PRS10B. I watched/measured 1) PPS out from Tbolt on ch 1 (yellow) 2) 10MHz out from PRS10B on ch 2 (green) 3) 10MHz out from PRS10A on ch 3 (blue) 4) 1PPS out from PRS10 B on ch 4 (red) see attached screendump from a 500MHz Scope. I did not have enough time to completely remove offsets between 10MHz signals from PRS10A B. More tuning should have been done on the PRS10A wrt the Tbolt PPS also. Any comments? -- Björn On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Azelio, On 05/02/2012 10:30 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Magnus, you are correct but can I avoid to list our beloved counters/analyzers? The time-nut main tool is the TIC. Hehe, yes. But you can do great things even with a spare HP5335A for instance. It's quite respectable with about 1 ns resolution in this context. I have not tried using the SIA-3000 for TIC purposes. Just getting into the machine GPIB-wise is a bit of a challenge. Anyway, to correct the PPS input for the PRS10 the hardware approach is a must: so a delay line and a microprocessor are needed. Unless the SRS can develop a suitable software for the PRS10 (an inverted TTL serial line is already present) to read the M12+. Well, look at the Spectratime SRO-100, which already has that feature. http://www.spectratime.com/products/isync/gps-disciplined/SRO-100 Architecture-wise it is very similar to the FEI 5680, a 60 MHz VCXO, DDS for FLL and then DDS for output. PPS input and output makes you think about PRS-10. The PPS input has about 1 ns resolution. Now, there is a few things which differs from the PRS-10. It move it's internal (and later also its output) PPS to align up to the PPS reference. It hence does not need an output alignment. This makes the 7,5 MHz clock (133 ns cycle) less critical. BTW I do the same in my products. The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up, something which is critical to some applications. Also, it can take info from Jupiter-T, OnCore, M12+ and SuperStar II receivers for detailed timing info. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. attachment: image21273.png___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 5334A battery
Hi all, I have to replace the memory back-up battery on a 5334a counter. Today I've found it leaked causing some corrosion on the pcb. Does anybody know what kind of battery is it? I don't have the service manual. Thanks, Antonio I8IOV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5334A battery
Try this http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/HP_Agilent/HP_5334_Universal_Counter/HP_5334B_Service_Manual_Nov-1991.pdf On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:51 PM, iov...@inwind.it iov...@inwind.it wrote: Hi all, I have to replace the memory back-up battery on a 5334a counter. Today I've found it leaked causing some corrosion on the pcb. Does anybody know what kind of battery is it? I don't have the service manual. Thanks, Antonio I8IOV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Hi Magnus, |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... PRS10A PRS10B PPSOUT -- PPSIN PPSIN -- PPSOUT I believe he meant. No I would never do that! Take one! let the other follow the first one. I also believe he used a separate source for the later experiment. Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps -- PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ?
Privacy protection laws are a sham. Another example of out of control Eurocrats. The laws really offer only the illusion of protection. The servers for any web site can be in Korea or Gurnsey or a Caribean Island where there is no law at all. Furthermore, the only reason someone would ever get prosecuted is if some official decides to crucify you, following the model Romans of deterrance... 'killing a chicken to scare the monkeys'. Good PR, useless in practice if your information is stolen. The only real protection IMO is not to give out anything or shop elsewhere. YMMV, -John = Hi Marco, I disagree. This is personal information and is restricted by data protection law in the EU. It is commonly used for financial activity identity checks. I would never give this information to an unknown third party. As an aside, Italy has the greatest lost parcel rate of any country I post to. I don't know why this is but I now send everything to Italy by an insured, signed for service. Robert G8RPI. From: Marco IK1ODO ik1...@spin-it.com To: j...@quikus.com; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2012, 20:50 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone from Italy here ? The reason may be trivial. Ask the seller, he is a correct person. Anyway, the birthplace and DOB of a person are very easy to obtain on the web - it would be a stupid scam. But knowing the seller, I'm sure it is not. Being a dealer too, you can't believe the number of fiscal rules we have to obey. Accounting for the sale to a private customer outside Italy may be a nightmare. 73 - Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] R: Re: HP 5334A battery
Already done. The 5334B doesn't have any back-up battery. My counter is the 5334A. Thanks azelio.boriani wrote Try this http://www.ko4bb. com/Manuals/HP_Agilent/HP_5334_Universal_Counter/HP_5334B_Service_Manual_Nov- 1991.pdf On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:51 PM, iov...@inwind.it iov...@inwind.it wrote: Hi all, I have to replace the memory back-up battery on a 5334a counter. Today I've found it leaked causing some corrosion on the pcb. Does anybody know what kind of battery is it? I don't have the service manual. Thanks, ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Hi Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:01 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Hi Magnus, |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... PRS10A PRS10B PPSOUT -- PPSIN PPSIN-- PPSOUT I believe he meant. No I would never do that! Take one! let the other follow the first one. Phew. You had me and obviously others believe so for a while. I'm happier now. I also believe he used a separate source for the later experiment. Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps --PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Yes, all made clear. Trigger on Ch.4, I see. You have written green: 10MHz PRS10B but it must be A, otherwise it seems that the PPS and the 10MHz of the PRS10 are not phase aligned. Moreover, the PRS10B seems to track the PRS10A with some delay as the 10MHz from A spreads on more than 5nS (useful, the infinite persistence, isn't it? I use it a lot) On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:01 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Hi Magnus, |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... PRS10A PRS10B PPSOUT -- PPSIN PPSIN-- PPSOUT I believe he meant. No I would never do that! Take one! let the other follow the first one. Phew. You had me and obviously others believe so for a while. I'm happier now. I also believe he used a separate source for the later experiment. Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps --PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Magnus, Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps --PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. No a GPS locked Tbolt. A free-running Tbolt was just an example of a very low noise 1PPS source, where I would find it useful to have a PT-1 bias calibration mode bypassing the PLL, and moving the PPSOUT directly with the PPSIN. -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Or my E1740A :-) On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I cannot believe my Guidetech GT4000 was left off your list. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 22:11:25 +0200 From: mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Yes, the E1740A it is a VXI plug-in like the Racal 2351. I have the Racal and the VXI C-size small mainframe E1421B. On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:31 AM, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.comwrote: Or my E1740A :-) On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: I cannot believe my Guidetech GT4000 was left off your list. Thomas Knox Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 22:11:25 +0200 From: mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS On 05/02/2012 10:03 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: You don't have a Cs reference but you have a GPS: in the long term it is the same. By using a TIC (your preferred: HP5370B, HP5372A, SR620, PM6680, PM6681, HP53132A, Racal 2351, Yokogawa TA720, PICTIC II, Wavecrest DTS275 [SIA3000?] and others) keep track of the GPS PPS vs. the PRS10 PPS. Considering the M12+T PPS noise, you won't need anything stellar. A PICTIC II will do just fine... or if you trust the PRS-10 readings, run from that. What would make this better would to use a sawtooth-correction to PPS delay setup, as the PRS-10 measurement resolution will be about on par with that. Would lower the effects of hanging-bridges, even if one suffers less when dealing with a rubidium. Adjust the PRS-10 PLL bandwidth/time-constant, the default value is most probably not optimum, you can go further up in time. Do check the manual. Cheers, Magnus On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Jerry Mulchinjmulc...@cox.net wrote: I need some guidance from the collective. I just finished rebuilding my PRS10 lab standard and it is now using a M12+T GPS module. I have completed my site survey and it is now in hold position mode, TRAIM is enabled with 500ns alarm setting and the 1PPS is enabled during non-TRAIM alarm conditions. The PRS10 is set for default 1PPS steering, but all of the other parameters are just as I received the unit 5 years ago. My questions are these; 1.) Should I reset the PRS10 to its Default settings or just adjust selected parameters to align the unit for proper operation with the M12+T unit? And if that is the case, what parameters need adjusting? 2.) Are there any special settings, other than what WinOncore sets, that I should make to the M12+T unit? 3.) After all this is completed, how do I know that the PRS10 is properly tracking GPS and maintaining frequency accurately? I don't have a Cesium reference, but I do have an un-disiplined LPRO-101, but I don't think that really helps me determine frequency accuracy. I will be adding the sawtooth correction eventually to the M12+T 1PPS output, but observed negative sawtooth with WinOncore shows +/- 14ns changes with some bridging occasionally. While I don't ever want to claim NIST traceability, I would like to be a close as possible, and I guess that is the bottom line need here. So what else do I need to do to get as close as possible? Thanks for any help. Jerry Mulchin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Yes, all made clear. Trigger on Ch.4, I see. You have written green: 10MHz PRS10B but it must be A, otherwise it seems that the PPS and the 10MHz of the PRS10 are not phase aligned. Moreover, the PRS10B seems to track the PRS10A with some delay as the 10MHz from A spreads on more than 5nS (useful, the infinite persistence, isn't it? I use it a lot) I had locked Tbolt 1PPS going into PPS_IN of PRS10A PPS Out of PRS10A going into PPS_IN of PRS10B. I watched/measured 1) PPS out from Tbolt on ch 1 (yellow) 2) 10MHz out from PRS10A on ch 2 (green) // Corrected 3) 10MHz out from PRS10B on ch 3 (blue)// Corrected 4) 1PPS out from PRS10 B on ch 4 (red) I should do some proper measurements with TIC, instead of just 'watching' on the scope. Yes the 1pps and 10MHz is ofcause stable within the same PRS10. But should not the 10MHz zero crossing be aligned with the 1PPS? Cables were not perfectly matched, but should be within 2-3ns of each other. Yes, persistance is very nice! -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Hi Björn, On 05/02/2012 11:50 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: The phase of the PPSOUT and the generated 10 MHz will probably not align up,something which is critical to some applications. Yes, for example the DVB-T SFN requires the PPS and 10MHz phases to be aligned, better, not to move. This requires to slightly alter the 10MHz to keep the PPS aligned. Let me ask Bjorn: did you succeed in aligning the two PRS10? Somewhat... I had a stable offset between the 10MHz PRS10 signals of almost 8ns, moving +-2.5ns over some hours. Recall that input resolution is about 0,2 ns and output resolution is about 0,5 ns and that 1 ns seems to be around where input and output precision is really given... so some of that may be traceable to those aspects. Moreover, what do you mean by each other, a scheme like this: |---| | | | PRS10APRS10B | |---PPS IN PPS OUT--PPS IN PPS OUT--| hoping that the font doesn't mess up the ASCII schematic... Almost, I also let the PRS10A be steered by a Tbolt. PLL settings 8 on PRS10A, and 0 on PRS10B, which should make PRS10B quick enough to follow any wiggle the PRS10A do slowly following its Tbolt supplied PPS_in. I had locked Tbolt 1PPS going into PPS_IN of PRS10A PPS Out of PRS10A going into PPS_IN of PRS10B. I watched/measured 1) PPS out from Tbolt on ch 1 (yellow) 2) 10MHz out from PRS10B on ch 2 (green) 3) 10MHz out from PRS10A on ch 3 (blue) 4) 1PPS out from PRS10 B on ch 4 (red) see attached screendump from a 500MHz Scope. I did not have enough time to completely remove offsets between 10MHz signals from PRS10A B. More tuning should have been done on the PRS10A wrt the Tbolt PPS also. Any comments? The timing offsets of both PRS-10s may need a bit adjustment to align up better. The thunderbolt PPS noise is obviously not wonderful. The higher noise on the PRS-10B 10 MHz (green) compared to the PRS-10B PPS (red) is interesting. This may be due to the PPS output delay hiding the error, something which you can grasp from the last sentence of page 33 in the manual. Thus, the PPS output delay is used to cover up the time-error that the PLL loop provides. It looks like it is better locked-up then it actually is, so looking at the loop state will be necessary to really know. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Maybe the 10MHz and the PPS are not exactly aligned but you can see that the persistance of the 10MHzB (blue trace) is exactly the same of the PPS B (red trace), so they are absolutely consistent and perfectly linked together. On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 12:42 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Yes, all made clear. Trigger on Ch.4, I see. You have written green: 10MHz PRS10B but it must be A, otherwise it seems that the PPS and the 10MHz of the PRS10 are not phase aligned. Moreover, the PRS10B seems to track the PRS10A with some delay as the 10MHz from A spreads on more than 5nS (useful, the infinite persistence, isn't it? I use it a lot) I had locked Tbolt 1PPS going into PPS_IN of PRS10A PPS Out of PRS10A going into PPS_IN of PRS10B. I watched/measured 1) PPS out from Tbolt on ch 1 (yellow) 2) 10MHz out from PRS10A on ch 2 (green) // Corrected 3) 10MHz out from PRS10B on ch 3 (blue)// Corrected 4) 1PPS out from PRS10 B on ch 4 (red) I should do some proper measurements with TIC, instead of just 'watching' on the scope. Yes the 1pps and 10MHz is ofcause stable within the same PRS10. But should not the 10MHz zero crossing be aligned with the 1PPS? Cables were not perfectly matched, but should be within 2-3ns of each other. Yes, persistance is very nice! -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:30 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Magnus, Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps -- PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. No a GPS locked Tbolt. Thanks for that clarification, I am obviously a bit tired. A free-running Tbolt was just an example of a very low noise 1PPS source, where I would find it useful to have a PT-1 bias calibration mode bypassing the PLL, and moving the PPSOUT directly with the PPSIN. So this does not suffice?: Page 33: When provided with an accurate and stable 1pps source, the unit will automatically align its 1pps output to the 1pps input and then adjust the frequency of the rubidium reference to maintain the alignment over time. Page 17: After receiving 256 consecutive good 1pps inputs, the 1pps pulse delay is set to the last of the 256 time-tag values. I interpret this as this: When the 256s PPS has been approved, the last-time-tag is used to adjust the output delay such that the output signal is aligned, within the precision of the time-offset value. Then, the PLL is running. Either the output delay is not shifted and only the PPS alignment is done on approval, or it is updated in the background. The text only supports the former explicitly, but it would be nice to verify if it is either of these. Doing phase-jump of PPS like this on start-up is expected. I've even has a measurement on it somewhere. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:42 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Yes, all made clear. Trigger on Ch.4, I see. You have written green: 10MHz PRS10B but it must be A, otherwise it seems that the PPS and the 10MHz of the PRS10 are not phase aligned. Moreover, the PRS10B seems to track the PRS10A with some delay as the 10MHz from A spreads on more than 5nS (useful, the infinite persistence, isn't it? I use it a lot) I had locked Tbolt 1PPS going into PPS_IN of PRS10A PPS Out of PRS10A going into PPS_IN of PRS10B. I watched/measured 1) PPS out from Tbolt on ch 1 (yellow) 2) 10MHz out from PRS10A on ch 2 (green) // Corrected 3) 10MHz out from PRS10B on ch 3 (blue)// Corrected 4) 1PPS out from PRS10 B on ch 4 (red) I should do some proper measurements with TIC, instead of just 'watching' on the scope. Yes the 1pps and 10MHz is ofcause stable within the same PRS10. But should not the 10MHz zero crossing be aligned with the 1PPS? No. See my other posting. As far as I can see, the PRS-10 does not bother to create relative phase alignment between 10 MHz and PPS. If you want that, you will have to play tricks with the time-offsets (TO) with the hints from the time-tags (TT) and then some separate calibration. It seems like there is still some time-offset calibration to be done. Cables were not perfectly matched, but should be within 2-3ns of each other. Yes, persistance is very nice! Indeed. For stuff like this, I like having a scope in parallel with the signals so I see what happens. The counter gives the quality measures, but the scope gives the overall picture and you get such a more direct response of behaviour as you see the PPS move about. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:30 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Magnus, Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps -- PPSIN PPSOUT -- PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. No a GPS locked Tbolt. Thanks for that clarification, I am obviously a bit tired. A free-running Tbolt was just an example of a very low noise 1PPS source, where I would find it useful to have a PT-1 bias calibration mode bypassing the PLL, and moving the PPSOUT directly with the PPSIN. So this does not suffice?: Page 33: When provided with an accurate and stable 1pps source, the unit will automatically align its 1pps output to the 1pps input and then adjust the frequency of the rubidium reference to maintain the alignment over time. Page 17: After receiving 256 consecutive good 1pps inputs, the 1pps pulse delay is set to the last of the 256 time-tag values. I interpret this as this: When the 256s PPS has been approved, the last-time-tag is used to adjust the output delay such that the output signal is aligned, within the precision of the time-offset value. Then, the PLL is running. Either the output delay is not shifted and only the PPS alignment is done on approval, or it is updated in the background. The text only supports the former explicitly, but it would be nice to verify if it is either of these. Doing phase-jump of PPS like this on start-up is expected. I've even has a measurement on it somewhere. It is surely working alright in the long run. I am not convinced it is appropriate for applications where you fire up the PRS for a few hours and then do a few hours of measurements. Even if it jumps the 1pps, early on the PLL will still be 100s of ns away from its reference. There should be a better way to make this, than how I run the PRS... -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
On 05/03/2012 01:09 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Björn, On 05/03/2012 12:30 AM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Magnus, Tbolt PRS10A PRS10B 1pps -- PPSIN PPSOUT --PPS IN PRS10A slowly following the Tbolt (PRS10A PT8) PRS10B quickly following the PRS10A (PRS10B PT0) Ok? Yes, but if this is a free-running thunderbolt (I think you said something about that) then PT8 will be a bit slow. For a tracking thunderbolt PT8 may work, even if it takes time for it to track in. No a GPS locked Tbolt. Thanks for that clarification, I am obviously a bit tired. A free-running Tbolt was just an example of a very low noise 1PPS source, where I would find it useful to have a PT-1 bias calibration mode bypassing the PLL, and moving the PPSOUT directly with the PPSIN. So this does not suffice?: Page 33: When provided with an accurate and stable 1pps source, the unit will automatically align its 1pps output to the 1pps input and then adjust the frequency of the rubidium reference to maintain the alignment over time. Page 17: After receiving 256 consecutive good 1pps inputs, the 1pps pulse delay is set to the last of the 256 time-tag values. I interpret this as this: When the 256s PPS has been approved, the last-time-tag is used to adjust the output delay such that the output signal is aligned, within the precision of the time-offset value. Then, the PLL is running. Either the output delay is not shifted and only the PPS alignment is done on approval, or it is updated in the background. The text only supports the former explicitly, but it would be nice to verify if it is either of these. Doing phase-jump of PPS like this on start-up is expected. I've even has a measurement on it somewhere. It is surely working alright in the long run. I am not convinced it is appropriate for applications where you fire up the PRS for a few hours and then do a few hours of measurements. Even if it jumps the 1pps, early on the PLL will still be 100s of ns away from its reference. There should be a better way to make this, than how I run the PRS... Indeed. What you can do is to forward correct the phase error in order hide the loop error. What the PRS-10 approach does is: 1) First degree compensate the PPS offset error 2) Use the phase difference from that point to track in frequency error. The PI-loop will ensure that the phase-error goes towards 0. The end result should be a time-error close to zero. The track-in error would be exposed in the PRS-10, but a feed-forward solution would paper over it. Considering that PRS-10 had telecom applications in mind, this approach would be fine, since we have usually loads of time to average things out on, and we can handle some transients at times. The PRS-10 approach is not ideal for some measurements and some other approaches. You can however lower the initial jump by the trimmer, as the initial frequency offset could be reduced. /|T(0) would however still be there. The relative openness of the PRS-10 would however allow for some smarter tricks to be played. The PRS-10 does not play all the tricks it could play given the hardware capabilities it has. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Setting up PRS10 with M12+T GPS
On 5/2/2012 5:18 PM, Tom Knox wrote: I cannot believe my Guidetech GT4000 was left off your list. No worries. He didn't list the HP 5370A, either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] R: Re: HP 5334A battery
My 5334A Service Manual for SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX: 2426A lists the following battery; Reference Designation - BT1 HP Part Number - 1420-0268 Description - Battery 3.6V .065A-HR NI-CD Mfr Code - 28480 (which is Hewlett-Packard) Mfr Part Number - 1420-0268 I haven't opened my unit up to make any checks against this data. Hope this helps. Alan On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:02 PM, iov...@inwind.it iov...@inwind.it wrote: Already done. The 5334B doesn't have any back-up battery. My counter is the 5334A. Thanks azelio.boriani wrote Try this http://www.ko4bb. com/Manuals/HP_Agilent/HP_5334_Universal_Counter/HP_5334B_Service_Manual_Nov- 1991.pdf On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:51 PM, iov...@inwind.it iov...@inwind.it wrote: Hi all, I have to replace the memory back-up battery on a 5334a counter. Today I've found it leaked causing some corrosion on the pcb. Does anybody know what kind of battery is it? I don't have the service manual. Thanks, ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Motorola ONCORE M12+T timing gps reciever manual and schematic
Hi, Time-Nuts guys does anyone have a manual and connection diagram for a Motorola ONCORE M12+T timing gps reciever. I am considering buying one and I need to know a little more about them. Thankyou Ken Kubick kenkub...@hotmail.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Motorola ONCORE M12+T timing gps reciever manual and schematic
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Ken Kubick kenkub...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Time-Nuts guys does anyone have a manual and connection diagram for a Motorola ONCORE M12+T timing gps reciever. Google found this one: http://www.cnssys.com/files/M12+UsersGuide.pdf -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
