Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi True on the volume and weight. Not as much power as an OCXO since it's passive. At 1x 2 x 0.5 you could fix the power and weight by using an EMXO. You still would have more power than the TCXO, but no were near as much as the couple watts a USO uses. Bob Bob On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:41 PM, J

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 11:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I suspect that a good IT cut would probably do better than an SC in either application. In the deep space situation, a copper slug in a dewar sounds like a reasonable addition to the design. If you're going to do dewars, then you're talking USOs for wh

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Bill Dailey
Firefox is notorious for screwing up audio in windows. I have had OS of problems with this. I actually think its something o o with networking. Sent from my iPad On Sep 1, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: > On 09/01/2012 02:17 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: >> On 09/01/2012

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
On 09/01/2012 02:17 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 09/01/2012 08:35 AM, Hal Murray wrote: The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mostly, it works as expected, but occasional

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 09/01/2012 08:35 AM, Hal Murray wrote: The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mostly, it works as expected, but occasionally, it picks or drops a cycle. In order to underst

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 09/01/2012 10:57 PM, J. Forster wrote: Nope. The rise/falls are far too fast for anything connected to the grid even if in the same house. If the thing is on the output of a UPS with a rapidly switched load, maybe. Any big loads, even ohmic heaters, have some inductance. I don't see any such

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 09/01/2012 05:53 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 9/1/12 8:32 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Observing a curve and being able to compensate it are often two different things. Hysteresis is one very obvious example. Another is simple sensor lag. A some what less obvious one is that the temperature performance i

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread J. Forster
Nope. The rise/falls are far too fast for anything connected to the grid even if in the same house. If the thing is on the output of a UPS with a rapidly switched load, maybe. Any big loads, even ohmic heaters, have some inductance. I don't see any such influence. Try an oscillator. I suggested

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message , "Bill Hawkins" writes: >I agree with others that the power company isn't doing this. Not only are they not, but it also very obvious that the source is nearby, since high-frequency components suffer very high damping in the grid. My guess is an electronically switched motor, likely

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread David McGaw
In the second set it looks like the wrong input is being sampled at times. Notice the offset is always the same. I have seen this happen a lot with simple sampling programs. Even if this were real I doubt it would cause false triggering of the clock. The pulse shown in the first set would.

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread tcur...@sbcglobal.net
Perhaps a dumb question, but the wall wart is plugged into the wall, connected directly to the grid? You aren't powering the wall wart through a UPS or some type of inverter? Tom Sent from my HTC Inspireā„¢ 4G on AT&T - Reply message - From: "Bill Hawkins" To: "'Discussion of precise t

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Bill Hawkins
Hal, where are you taking off the signal to the audio line? At the low voltage wall wart or at the modem pin? - assuming there's an isolation or dropping resistor. I agree with others that the power company isn't doing this. There would be inductive ringing. Can you confirm with another wall wart

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I suspect that a good IT cut would probably do better than an SC in either application. In the deep space situation, a copper slug in a dewar sounds like a reasonable addition to the design. Bob On Sep 1, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Jim Lux wrote: > On 9/1/12 8:32 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >>

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 8:32 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Observing a curve and being able to compensate it are often two different things. Hysteresis is one very obvious example. Another is simple sensor lag. A some what less obvious one is that the temperature performance is also influenced by the rate of chan

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Observing a curve and being able to compensate it are often two different things. Hysteresis is one very obvious example. Another is simple sensor lag. A some what less obvious one is that the temperature performance is also influenced by the rate of change in temperature. Here's another th

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 6:56 AM, Arthur Dent wrote: IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can do anything like that. YMMV, -John I agree. If this was happening on the grid by the time this blip had traveled down the line to you it would have been so filtered through transfor

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread lists
I think monitoring a signal generator was the best idea presented. You always need a baseline (sanity) test in any experiment. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nu

[time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Arthur Dent
> IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can > do anything like that. > > YMMV, > > -John I agree. If this was happening on the grid by the time this blip had traveled down the lineĀ  to you it would have been so filtered through transformers and other devices and yo

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Peter Gottlieb
I concur with John, the grid doesn't do that. To me it looks like line noise and/or a software issue is causing your setup to give false results.I have seen a lot of instrumentation get fooled by line noise, especially around zero crossings. Measuring the power line accurately in the prese

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread J. Forster
> More... OOPS > > You might try logging the output of an audio oscillator, Even an HP 200 > would work. > > -John > > = > > >> I agree: I don't think this is possible on a power line. Better to use a >> second sampling unit to check. >> >> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, J. Forster

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread J. Forster
More... You might try logging the output of an audio oscillator, Even an HP 20 would work. -John = > I agree: I don't think this is possible on a power line. Better to use a > second sampling unit to check. > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, J. Forster wrote: > >> IMO, you ha

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread J. Forster
I'd try to beg or borrow a line dsturbance monitor. To me, it looks like a SW issue, BTW. Perhaps something like an interrupt service routine crock. FWIW, -John == > I agree: I don't think this is possible on a power line. Better to use a > second sampling unit to check. > > On Sat

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Azelio Boriani
I agree: I don't think this is possible on a power line. Better to use a second sampling unit to check. On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, J. Forster wrote: > IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can > do anything like that. > > YMMV, > > -John > > === >

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread J. Forster
IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can do anything like that. YMMV, -John === > The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. > > I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal > that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mo

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/31/12 11:35 PM, Hal Murray wrote: The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mostly, it works as expected, but occasionally, it picks or drops a cycle. In order to understand

Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread lists
I think 50% is the employee discount, at least back in the day. I worked at a company that was one of the early users of Silvaco. The founder, Ivan Pesic, bought all the gear for his start up at employee discount, then started a company competing with HP TECAP. He got the network analyzer, the

Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread David Kirkby
On 1 September 2012 02:42, Said Jackson wrote: > You could get our GPSTCXO eval kit. > > It has a uBlox gps, supports NMEA GGA and RMC messages, has on-board USB, and > outputs a disciplined 10MHz with reasonably good phase noise. Two flies > captured in one. > > Probably costs only as much as s

Re: [time-nuts] ublox chip sets - what GPS device should I buy?

2012-09-01 Thread David Kirkby
On 1 September 2012 00:00, Kevin Rosenberg wrote: > On Aug 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM, David Kirkby wrote: >> I don't have it yet, but bought it on eBay today from the seller >> "agilentused" which is Agilent, and sells used/ex-demo units which >> have been reconditioned, and have a fully warranty. Sin