Re: [time-nuts] Z3805
Hi There often are series resistors / inductors ahead of the power bricks in all these designs. I have found several of them fried. After replacement, everything seems to work ok. I have no idea why they cook out, but they do… Bob On Nov 16, 2012, at 2:50 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: Bob wrote: I've heard much talk in this group about the power supplies on the Z3805. * * * my Z3805 * * * started producing a real bad smell after a few hours, the classic burnt transformer type. * * * I opened the unit and found the 25W 5V, +/-15V (made by ATT) was real, real hot. Is this the supply driving the heater inside the 10811? There appear to be quite a number of different boxes available labeled Z3805 these days, so information you get may or may not apply to the particular unit you have. My Korean-made Z3805A takes nominally 24-27 V DC power and has a dual-oven 10811 OCXO. I presume -- but do not know for sure -- that the ovens run from the raw DC supply, not from a DC-DC converter. If the smell did come from the DC-DC converter block, it suggests a failure either in the converter itself or in the circuitry that is powered by the 15 V supplies. I think the former would be more likely -- the converter should have internal protection that would step in before it got hot enough to smell, in case of a load fault. A failed oven controller in the 10811 could also produce a burnt smell. Whatever it was, it will very likely give a repeat performance at some inopportune time, unless you chase down the trouble first. Not easy with an intermittent fault, but particularly if it was one of the 10811 ovens acting up, it would be nice to catch it before it happens again. Hints: (1) use your nose, up close. Does one part have a residual smoky smell? (2) Look very carefully, using a magnifier. Does one part have ID markings that look faded or scorched, or small cracks? Is anything leaking out of the DC-DC converter? Also look carefully at resistors and polar capacitors. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] [Fwd: [Milsurplus] Wanted - AN/URQ-10 manual]
On the off-chance someone has this manual. Please reply direct to Nick. -John === Original Message Subject: [Milsurplus] Wanted - AN/URQ-10 manual From:Nick England navy.ra...@gmail.com Date:Thu, November 15, 2012 6:26 pm To: Military Surplus Mail List milsurp...@mailman.qth.net -- I've recently acquired an AN/URQ-10 frequency standard and would like to borrow a manual to copy (or pdf to download). NAVSHIPS 0967-053-7010 This gadget was used shipboard as a master source for synthesized radio and RATT gear such as AN/WRR-2, AN/WRT-2, R-1051/URR, AN/UCC-1, etc. http://www.navy-radio.com/freq-equip.htm thanks, Nick K4NYW __ Milsurplus mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:milsurp...@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB cheap chip saa6579 RDS decoder back to the chip
Hi Paul - If you can spend time on that: 1. Look for the different modulation spectrum between BPSK and RDS. The phase modulation angle is different, the bits are manchester encoded or such to get a hole on the carrier frequency (For the ARI carrier), the baseband is DBPSK. 2. Carefully adjust the clock generator. Very sensitive to it! 3. The demodulator can lock on two different phase states. But the difference is just where the clock transition is positioned in the data-bit. In locked state this should be constant and can only change the next time the chip switches von search to lock state (with a 50% probability). 4. Yes, often such chips are interesting but poorly documented. Sometimes it helps to look for similar devices like the SAA6588, TDA7330 , etc. Older datasheets often show more details. 5. I don't think you can use the chip with 1bit/sec. It is made for 1200bits/sec. I don't know if the internal digital part of the circuit is fully static. But surely the capacitors of the filter are to small for a 1200:1 dynamic range. Maybe I misunderstood this in your application. Have fun - Henry paul swed schrieb: Henry Its been a while since that thread and I have not done anything with the chip. But to answer your questions. Really good signal to noise. The modulator is 6 from the saa6579. Its a home brew BPSK modulator and the transitions are programmable. But I am following wwvbs 1sec per bit. So the phase is quite stable for long periods of time. Signal level is 1000uv but again that can be adjusted. Were is someone. My comment was someone on time-nuts suggested that you had to use the clock and a flip flop to properly see the data. Thats what you are also saying. As to the wwvb modulation scheme I fully understand that. But I actually do not know a lot about RDS and how it might be different from wwvbs method of transmission. I believe there is plenty of information on RDS. I just don't have a lot of time to figure it out. I will get back to the chip at some point it is really interesting but very poorly documented unfortunately. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Fwd: [Milsurplus] Wanted - AN/URQ-10 manual]
responded On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:41 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: On the off-chance someone has this manual. Please reply direct to Nick. -John === Original Message Subject: [Milsurplus] Wanted - AN/URQ-10 manual From:Nick England navy.ra...@gmail.com Date:Thu, November 15, 2012 6:26 pm To: Military Surplus Mail List milsurp...@mailman.qth.net -- I've recently acquired an AN/URQ-10 frequency standard and would like to borrow a manual to copy (or pdf to download). NAVSHIPS 0967-053-7010 This gadget was used shipboard as a master source for synthesized radio and RATT gear such as AN/WRR-2, AN/WRT-2, R-1051/URR, AN/UCC-1, etc. http://www.navy-radio.com/freq-equip.htm thanks, Nick K4NYW __ Milsurplus mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:milsurp...@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] thunderbolt
I'm looking for a Thunderbolt or similar with defunct 10 MHz oscillator for a weird project. Anybody have something at rockbottom price? Don L -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
I'm sure many on this list will have had bad experiences with eBay and/or Paypal. I've had a fair few myself, but the following is the single largest loss I have incurred, and was when buying directly from Agilent - not some reseller of Agilent equipment. The only winners are eBay and Paypal, with myself and Agilent both losing money. I will lose £452.90 (around $720 USD). I don't know how much Agilent have lost, but I suspect it is more than me. As an individual buyer, not part of a large company, the £452.90 will effect me more than it does a multi-billion dollar company like Agilent. The eBay seller was agilentused, which is Agilent selling some of their reconditioned (CertiPrime) items via eBay. Brief details are: * On the 4th September I purchased an N9923A portable vector network analyzer via Agilent from eBay. The purchase price was $17,736 (USD). * The transaction was paid via Paypal. Since I live in the UK, I had to pay Paypal £11463.74 (GBP). Obviously Paypal charge commission in converting my GBP to USD. * Just over a month later the VNA arrived from Agilent. The auction clearly stated the item would be dispatched from Malasia about 3 weeks after payment was received, so I was not surprised by this long shipment time. * The VNA arrived, and I was initially very pleased with it. It was clearly reconditioned to a high standard, with a new battery, new power supply, new manual, new case etc. The scratches which were on the unit were *very* minor. * I had various issues with this VNA - both a hardware fault and firmware bugs. The details are pretty irrelevant, but I would say the support from Agilent, especially from Afsi Moaveni, who supports this product, was excellent. * Agilent advised me the VNA needed to be returned for repair, as they suspected a system board needed replacing. * But given my concerns over the number of firmware bugs, for what should have been a mature product (released 2-3 years ago), I requested a refund. * Agilent agreed to a refund. * Agilent arranged for the VNA to be picked up via UPS, with Agilent paying the cost of the return shipping. * Rather than Agilent refund me in USD, I requested Agilent cancel the Paypal transaction, as I knew this would give me a 100% refund, not losing any money due to Paypal currency conversion fees. * Unfortunately, due to the time this had gone on, which was not helped by the long shipment time from Agilent to me, this was 70 days after I'd paid for the item. This is outside the 60-day limit for Paypal transactions to be cancelled. * I contacted Paypal to try to get this 60-day limit extended but was unsuccessful. I was advised that Agilent, being a large user of Paypal, would have had their own account manager, and that the Paypal account manager maybe able to cancel the transaction. * I advised Agilent of this, but Agilent were unable to cancel the Paypal transaction, so deceided to refund money to my UK bank account. * After various negotiations over this, in which I sent copies of my bank statement to Agilent showing them how much it cost me, I've been advised I will be refunded by the Agilent conversion rate for Nov’12 of 1.61078 USD = 1.00 GBP., which means I will receive £11,010.84. Hence the result of this, is that I've had to pay Paypal £11463.74, but will receive back £11010.84 from Agilent. Hence I will have lost £452.90 (around $720) of my own money. Hence let this be a warning to anyone else. A few things have contributed to this unfortunate experience. 1) Using Paypal for a transaction which incurred currency transfer fees. 2) The fact the transaction was for a fairly large sum of money. 3) Agilent's long dispatch time, which meant the issue took a long time to resolve. 4) Agilent's slightly unfavorable conversion rate of 1.61078 USD = 1.00 GBP, when xe.com gives 1.58840 USD = 1.00 GBP today. Of course Agilent have lost too: 1) Agilent have paid eBay fees 2) Agilent have paid Paypal fees 3) Agilent have paid the return shipping cost from my house to Agilent UK. 4) Agilent's support staff did their best to resolve the issues, and they obviously need to be paid. 5) A large number of Agilent staff were involved in the refund negotiations, who again need to be paid. 6) After fixing the hardware fault, Agilent will have to recondition the unit to sell it to someone else. I supsect the eBay/Paypal group have made at least $1000 from all this. Dr. David Kirkby - not a happy Paypal or Agilent customer. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
PayPal is pretty much a law unto itself. Basically, if you choose to become involved with them, it's their bat, ball, glove, and ballpark. Your only real alternative is to play another game. Unfortunately, the younger generation of eBay sellers is convinced that PayPal and plastic is the only trustworthy way of doing business. I am somewhat pissed because I just lost out on an eBay item, not to another bidder as there was no one else, but to a PayPal only lockout. YMMV, -John I'm sure many on this list will have had bad experiences with eBay and/or Paypal. I've had a fair few myself, but the following is the single largest loss I have incurred, and was when buying directly from Agilent - not some reseller of Agilent equipment. The only winners are eBay and Paypal, with myself and Agilent both losing money. I will lose £452.90 (around $720 USD). I don't know how much Agilent have lost, but I suspect it is more than me. As an individual buyer, not part of a large company, the £452.90 will effect me more than it does a multi-billion dollar company like Agilent. The eBay seller was agilentused, which is Agilent selling some of their reconditioned (CertiPrime) items via eBay. Brief details are: * On the 4th September I purchased an N9923A portable vector network analyzer via Agilent from eBay. The purchase price was $17,736 (USD). * The transaction was paid via Paypal. Since I live in the UK, I had to pay Paypal £11463.74 (GBP). Obviously Paypal charge commission in converting my GBP to USD. * Just over a month later the VNA arrived from Agilent. The auction clearly stated the item would be dispatched from Malasia about 3 weeks after payment was received, so I was not surprised by this long shipment time. * The VNA arrived, and I was initially very pleased with it. It was clearly reconditioned to a high standard, with a new battery, new power supply, new manual, new case etc. The scratches which were on the unit were *very* minor. * I had various issues with this VNA - both a hardware fault and firmware bugs. The details are pretty irrelevant, but I would say the support from Agilent, especially from Afsi Moaveni, who supports this product, was excellent. * Agilent advised me the VNA needed to be returned for repair, as they suspected a system board needed replacing. * But given my concerns over the number of firmware bugs, for what should have been a mature product (released 2-3 years ago), I requested a refund. * Agilent agreed to a refund. * Agilent arranged for the VNA to be picked up via UPS, with Agilent paying the cost of the return shipping. * Rather than Agilent refund me in USD, I requested Agilent cancel the Paypal transaction, as I knew this would give me a 100% refund, not losing any money due to Paypal currency conversion fees. * Unfortunately, due to the time this had gone on, which was not helped by the long shipment time from Agilent to me, this was 70 days after I'd paid for the item. This is outside the 60-day limit for Paypal transactions to be cancelled. * I contacted Paypal to try to get this 60-day limit extended but was unsuccessful. I was advised that Agilent, being a large user of Paypal, would have had their own account manager, and that the Paypal account manager maybe able to cancel the transaction. * I advised Agilent of this, but Agilent were unable to cancel the Paypal transaction, so deceided to refund money to my UK bank account. * After various negotiations over this, in which I sent copies of my bank statement to Agilent showing them how much it cost me, I've been advised I will be refunded by the Agilent conversion rate for Nov12 of 1.61078 USD = 1.00 GBP., which means I will receive £11,010.84. Hence the result of this, is that I've had to pay Paypal £11463.74, but will receive back £11010.84 from Agilent. Hence I will have lost £452.90 (around $720) of my own money. Hence let this be a warning to anyone else. A few things have contributed to this unfortunate experience. 1) Using Paypal for a transaction which incurred currency transfer fees. 2) The fact the transaction was for a fairly large sum of money. 3) Agilent's long dispatch time, which meant the issue took a long time to resolve. 4) Agilent's slightly unfavorable conversion rate of 1.61078 USD = 1.00 GBP, when xe.com gives 1.58840 USD = 1.00 GBP today. Of course Agilent have lost too: 1) Agilent have paid eBay fees 2) Agilent have paid Paypal fees 3) Agilent have paid the return shipping cost from my house to Agilent UK. 4) Agilent's support staff did their best to resolve the issues, and they obviously need to be paid. 5) A large number of Agilent staff were involved in the refund negotiations, who again need to be paid. 6) After fixing the hardware fault, Agilent will have to recondition the unit to sell it to someone else. I supsect the eBay/Paypal group have made at least $1000 from all this. Dr.
Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (trying to read my instruments)
I have had two 10811 with EFC problems that turned out to be lack of soldering of one internal joint. This is a large PTFE ferule with several leads including the varactor and trimmer going into it. For many years the leads all contacted but finally one lead developed an oxide film. A soldering iron fixed them very quickly. The serial numbers were widely separated, so it was not an unlucky batch problem. cheers, Neville Michie On 16/11/2012, at 1:57 PM, Chris Howard wrote: You all were right, my targeting of the 50 ohm resistor across the oscillator output does not seem to have solved the problem. A good thing to do, probably, but not the answer. While I was all excited about the resistor change I also mapped out the control voltage (EFC) vs frequency change. I wrote it out but didn't pay much attention. Now I've been pondering over that a bit. My next theory is that my EFC maybe isn't really doing very much. First I need to know if I am reading this right. My frequency counter is a Racal 1992 It reads 9.9997^6 as I write. A total of 9 digits with a smaller 6 to the right. If I read this correctly, I'm looking at 9,999,999.97 Hz ? If so, then I've got an EFC problem. My EFC mapping looks like this (this was done before I adjusted the coarse control) -4.94 VDC 9,999,999.95 -3.70 9,999,999.95 -1.24 9.999.999.93 0 VDC 9,999,999.93 +1.21 9,999,999.92 +2.44 9,999,999.92 +3.67 9,999,999.91 +4.90 VDC 9,999,999.90 It doesn't look to me like I am getting anything like 1/2 hertz range using the EFC. If that's the case than my controller card is frantically steering but not getting the desired result. Or, if I'm reading it wrong, maybe that last digit is 0-5 meaning 1/2 a hertz and I am all wet (again). This particular oscillator came out of an old HP counter and I believe the EFC was wired to ground. So maybe the thing has never been exercised. Are there versions of the 10811 that don't have EFC guts inside? Hope I'm not boring you all to death. Chris w0ep On 11/9/2012 11:26 PM, WarrenS wrote: Chris HP 10811 can't drift that much that fast unless something is near broken, or being connected wrong like gnds or PS voltage. Check the operation of the oven. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
I'm just amazed Aligent doesn't take credit cards directly. Paypal is for small time players. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (trying to read my instruments)
Maybe that is my problem. I definitely have a problem. I am able to get the EFC to work on some occasions. Usually it will work if I run the trimmer all the way out and toggle the power. I can then adjust the trimmer and get things working. But if I give the box a rap the frequency jumps and I get into the mode of the EFC not working. I can trimmer it up and it will look fine but no EFC. I will check out that ferule thing. I'm not sure what you are describing but will look for it. Chris On 11/16/2012 5:53 PM, Neville Michie wrote: I have had two 10811 with EFC problems that turned out to be lack of soldering of one internal joint. This is a large PTFE ferule with several leads including the varactor and trimmer going into it. For many years the leads all contacted but finally one lead developed an oxide film. A soldering iron fixed them very quickly. The serial numbers were widely separated, so it was not an unlucky batch problem. cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
Tyhey used to. Have you asked them if they still do? -John = I'm just amazed Aligent doesn't take credit cards directly. Paypal is for small time players. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (trying to read my instruments)
I have found a pic of the dry joint, this one was just a dry joint with resin insulating the connection, the other never had any solder applied. cheers, Neville Michie On 17/11/2012, at 11:09 AM, Chris Howard wrote: Maybe that is my problem. I definitely have a problem. I am able to get the EFC to work on some occasions. Usually it will work if I run the trimmer all the way out and toggle the power. I can then adjust the trimmer and get things working. But if I give the box a rap the frequency jumps and I get into the mode of the EFC not working. I can trimmer it up and it will look fine but no EFC. I will check out that ferule thing. I'm not sure what you are describing but will look for it. Chris On 11/16/2012 5:53 PM, Neville Michie wrote: I have had two 10811 with EFC problems that turned out to be lack of soldering of one internal joint. This is a large PTFE ferule with several leads including the varactor and trimmer going into it. For many years the leads all contacted but finally one lead developed an oxide film. A soldering iron fixed them very quickly. The serial numbers were widely separated, so it was not an unlucky batch problem. cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
