Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Charles Steinmetz
/tvb wrote: That would make a fun time experiment. One that you should do and report back to us. I see two experiments: one using LED flashes and one using speaker ticks. The research has been done with audio tics. Under ideal conditions -- fast tics (risetime 1uS, duration 10uS) mixed

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO disciplining algorithms

2015-04-19 Thread Charles Steinmetz
Alan wrote: An interesting point re 3 use-cases and re the vast majority of commercial algorithms being made for telco purposes. Does that imply that 10MHz lab-instrument feed for frequency / timing etc would ideally have some different algorithms? Frankly, I see no need for a lab standard

Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/15 7:02 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Many years ago while standing around (between races) with some pretty good stopwatches, a group of us decided to see just how well a set of people could time the same pair of start / stop events. Our conclusion was that as a group we could get agreement

Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Chris Albertson
I think the question really was How close must two visual clock displays be to be perceived as being exactly in sync?. Some people (but not me) can see a 1/10 second difference and to me a one second difference is obvious. The answer is likely between 1.0 and 0.1 seconds. But if you add a tick

Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Ultra High Stability Time Base Options for 53132A

2015-04-19 Thread J. L. Trantham
If anyone is interested in adding a clearer version of the 53132-60011 board on page 13 of the CLIP for the 53132A, I have redrawn the schematic. I have the values of all components except 4 capacitors that appear to all be the same. I can measure them, if needed, but I will have to remove

Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Bill Hawkins
The question implies simultaneous observation, but it could be resolved by phase change over time. All it requires is a means to start both second hands from the same reference point at the same time. Once released, the error between them will grow to something easily measured as the minutes go

Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Ultra High Stability Time Base Options for 53132A

2015-04-19 Thread Tom Miller
Hi Joe, You might upload them to KO4BB.com with a short note on what they are. There is a 53132 directory there. Regards, Tom - Original Message - From: J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, April

Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Chuck Harris
1/5th second is simply the rate at which the balance wheel on a standard stopwatch ticks... 18000BPM. -Chuck Harris Jim Lux wrote: Hence the reason that horse races are traditionally timed in 1/5th second increments. (1/5th second is also about 1 stride for a race horse at full gallop 3.5-4

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO disciplining algorithms

2015-04-19 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Apr 14, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Alan Ambrose alan.ambr...@anagram.net wrote: Hi all, Thanks for the interesting feedback everyone, and thanks Attila, for your specific references - some reading ahead. In principle, I should be able to remember all the stochastic / standard control

Re: [time-nuts] UBlox GPSDO

2015-04-19 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On a practical basis - in a GPSDO you want to be able to “tune” the filter (like you tune a control loop). That involves getting at the individual coefficients. Doing that is not what these chips are designed to allow. You can do the whole control loop with a $1 MCU, so it’s not a big

Re: [time-nuts] Need advice for multilateration setup

2015-04-19 Thread Robert Watzlavick
Attila, From reading at the abstract, it looks interesting - bird tracking! But essentially the same problem I'm trying to solve. I was looking for a copy of the paper on the web as I'm not sure I want to purchase it. Thanks, -Bob On 04/18/2015 04:02 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: Moin, On

Re: [time-nuts] Visual clock comparison

2015-04-19 Thread Fotis Georgatos
Hi, I don't know what you consider as listening device, but the ear has fantastic ability to hear slightly differentiating sounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats On the basis of that, someone could listen time and detect even very minor differences in sync, far below the base