Re: [time-nuts] 60Hz line data

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The utility of the watch crystal is greatly enhanced in a wrist watch by the calibration process on the watch. When they use one in an AC powered clock (say a clock / radio / alarm) , it’s as a backup device. Power goes out and the crystal keeps time. They don’t do much (any at all)

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion (part 2)

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Here’s the basic point: What is *required* for low phase noise? If you can build *one* oscillator that violates a “law” then that “law” is not valid. In tis case the question is “do you *need* low harmonics in the oscillator stage to get low phase noise?” Here on the list, we get obsessed

[time-nuts] Picked up the Austral 2200A tonight

2015-07-27 Thread Jason Ball
Just picked it up, it has an internal rubidium which piqued my interest as worst case I could cannibalize the unit. It's also been sitting on a shelf for 10 years so the oscillator should hopefully have some life left in it. What does surprise me is the firmware is dated 25th August 1998, I was

Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2010B useful in Australia/Sydney at all ?

2015-07-27 Thread Mike Cook
Trying again in case the SPAM header frightened you. My ISP is flagging some nut mail. Don’t know why. Le 27 juil. 2015 à 09:44, Mike Cook michael.c...@sfr.fr a écrit : Back in the 2011, the same Q was asked here and there was a response from Rob Kimberley who had worked at Austron

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion (part 2)

2015-07-27 Thread jerry shirᴀr
Here's the rub Bob. I have been trying to find a way or have you explain how a high harmonic oscillator stage is even possible and zip. You don't know and I certainly don't know. So there's that. Jerry On Jul 27, 2015 9:33 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s the basic point: What is

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion

2015-07-27 Thread Charles Steinmetz
Bob wrote: In tis case the question is do you *need* low harmonics in the oscillator stage to get low phase noise? Note that there are actually two questions. One is WRT the phase noise of the oscillator itself, and the other WRT the phase noise of a system that integrates the oscillator.

Re: [time-nuts] ground plane for cheap helix antennas?

2015-07-27 Thread Alan Ambrose
Hi Attila, Bob et al Generally speaking, you do want satellites as low on the horizon as possible, because they give you the most accurate x/y position solution. The idea is to get a location where you can see at least 2/3 of those tracks when they are above about 20 degrees to the

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion (part 2)

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:52 AM, jerry shirᴀr radio.n...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the rub Bob. I have been trying to find a way or have you explain how a high harmonic oscillator stage You are confusing the current through the crystal with the current in the oscillator transistor. So:

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion

2015-07-27 Thread Charles Steinmetz
Jerry wrote: I have been trying to find a way [to] explain how a high harmonic oscillator stage is even possible and zip. Simple. Use a circuit with way more gain than necessary, and bias it so that it goes into saturation at the one end of its voltage excursion long before the current

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Jul 27, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com wrote: Bob wrote: In tis case the question is do you *need* low harmonics in the oscillator stage to get low phase noise? Note that there are actually two questions. One is WRT the phase noise of the oscillator

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Jul 27, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com wrote: Bob wrote: In tis case the question is do you *need* low harmonics in the oscillator stage to get low phase noise? Note that there are actually two questions. One is WRT the phase noise of the oscillator

[time-nuts] Just When You Thought It Was Safe ....

2015-07-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi For all of you who dropped off the list back around Christmas and decided to re-join now that the KS box yack has died down ….. The usual auction site now has the pair selling for $100 and the “no GPS inside” part of the pair selling for $25 or two for $50. Mighty fair prices considering

Re: [time-nuts] 60Hz line data

2015-07-27 Thread Bill Byrom
In the early 1970's both LED and LSI integrated circuit technology advanced to the point that digital wristwatches were introduced. These used 32,768 Hz crystals. Use of this technology was made in digital desk clocks (such as alarm radio clocks), but I think that for many years it was much less

Re: [time-nuts] 60Hz line data

2015-07-27 Thread Bill Hawkins
Gotta get some answers from my relative in a PA gas fired plant. A year ago he told me that the plan to deregulate the number of cycles in a day had been abandoned. The referenced documents are older than that. OTOH, there's no other explanation for Hal Murray's observation of the West Coast

Re: [time-nuts] Square to sine wave symmetrical conversion (part 2)

2015-07-27 Thread jerry shirᴀr
Thanks Tim. I love reading these papers. However my copy states In fact, were it not for this slight non-linearity, it would be virtually impossible to build a simple lamp-stabilized RC oscillator with good envelope stability over a wide frequency range. rather than In fact, were it not for