Re: [time-nuts] Fixing broken HP5065A LED clock

[paul swed]

Poul-Henning is that just the back board of the clock?
I guess I did not realize there were actually 2 boards.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
wrote:

> This probably belongs in the category of serious overkill, but it was
> a nice excuse to learn KICAD and fab a PCB with it:
>
>http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20160112_working_clock/index.html
>
> I have 9 spare PCBs in case anybody have similar issues.
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Hal Murray]

ch...@chriscaudle.org said:
> No, ntpd would be getting time from the serial port, not from the network
> socket.  The idea would be that ntpd was getting the clock time from the
> serial port, but the time messages would be interleaved with whatever data
> the Thunderbolt was sending back in request to the LH commands. 

How does who decide what data goes to ntpd and what goes to LH?

If you have 2 serial ports, it would be easy to wire the pin from the TBolt 
to feed both serial ports.

ntpd knows enough about TBolts to tell it to send the time every second.  It 
would be easy to teach it to ignore stuff it doesn't want and doesn't already 
ignore.  That would let LH drive things and ntpd would just listen in on the 
second port.

It should be possible to duplicate the data stream in software, but I don't 
know how to do that on Linux.



-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] True Time Nut Mission: NASA's Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC)

[Gregory Beat]

Upcoming Event: Deep Space Atomic Clock
Jan. 14, 2016, at 7 p.m. PT (10 p.m. ET, 0300 UTC)
You can watch this event via USTREAM:  http://www.ustream.tv/NASAJPL2

Speakers: 
Todd Ely, DSAC Principal Investigator, JPL
Allen H. Farrington, DSAC Project Manager, JPL
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/tdm/clock/clock_overview.html#.VpWMgK9OKK0
Atomic clocks are an integral, yet almost invisible component of modern life. 
For space exploration, they have been the foundational frequency standard for 
NASA's Deep Space Network. NASA's Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) Technology 
Demonstration Mission, led by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, has been maturing 
the latest Atomic Clock technologies into a smaller package, suitable for 
installation on a variety of deep space probes to enhance navigation precision 
and gravity science across the solar system.

DSAC is scheduled for launch in mid-2016.  
Satellite being built by Surrey Satellite Technologies USA, Englewood, CO


Sent from iPad Air
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Re: [time-nuts] Tait reference

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Are these the references with a rubidium oscillator ?  They seem  to  have
similar models with OCXOs etc.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111862884745
 
---
Well now, how's this for a happy coincidence.
 
I've just received an email from a friend who bought a Tait T801 from  that 
very same auction, asking about the rubidium module that he  found inside 
it:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
Gm8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Ed Armstrong]

More details please. I've installed it, but can't make it work. My 
USB/serial cable is /dev/ttyUSB0 just like yours. I used your .conf 
file. But lady heather says connection rejected.



Ed

On 1/11/2016 8:00 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:

I answered my own question. :)

ser2net works perfectly as a “server” for LH. I’m using a USB to serial adapter 
and the ser2net.conf line for it is

3200:raw:0:/dev/ttyUSB0:9600 8DATABITS NONE 1STOPBIT LOCAL

And for LH, /ip=n.n.n.n:3200 works.



On Jan 11, 2016, at 9:30 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
wrote:

How about a simpler question. I see in the documentation that LH can use a 
network connection to remotely read. Can a server for that protocol be made for 
the RPi? That would be super awesome deluxe for me, and assuming it's just a 
serial-to-TCP protocol should be nearly trivial to write (heck, netcat might 
already just do it).

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:


I wonder if I've got anywhere near the skills to do it...

Probably not right now...  it's not so much as knowing C,  it's knowing the ins 
and out of knowing how your operating system (Windows, Linux, etc) interfaces 
with your hardware (display, mouse, serial port, keyboard).   Basically, if you 
have to ask the question,  your are probably not ready to attempt the task.
Lady Heather is a pretty simple program,  but it is rather long and divided into 5 files. 
 Just getting set up to compile it in a new environment can be quite a challenge to the 
un-initiated (acouple of toupees worth of hair pulling once you can compile and link a 
simple "hello world" program.
Then you need to figure out how to draw dots and characters,  talk to the 
serial port,  talk to the mouse, talk to the keyboard.   Pretty basic stuff 
once you are familiar with your operating system/environment,  but not 
something most people do everyday...
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Re: [time-nuts] Tait reference

[Clint Jay]

That's a very happy coincidence and one I'd hoped to hear.

The pictures in the auction seem to show a lack of tarnish on the Ref Out
and Ref In BNCs which suggests they have had plugs on them, looping the
internal reference, other little bits of information also pointed to that,
the remnants of a sticker on the front of one unit seems to say
'RUBID01...', past auctions of T801 units have been labelled with things
like 'RUBID048', the hex switches seem to be set correctly for use with an
internal reference as well so I was quietly confident they had the Rb
option fitted.

Now I just have to cross my fingers that mine arrive with the Rb in good
conditon. The seller also states 'working order' so there's possible scope
for a refund if it doesn't.

On 12 January 2016 at 12:24, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts 
wrote:

> Are these the references with a rubidium oscillator ?  They seem  to  have
> similar models with OCXOs etc.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111862884745
>
> ---
> Well now, how's this for a happy coincidence.
>
> I've just received an email from a friend who bought a Tait T801 from  that
> very same auction, asking about the rubidium module that he  found inside
> it:-)
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> Gm8PZR
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>



-- 
Clint.

*No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Chuck Harris]

Hi Mark,

That was well understood when I stated that your life would have
been easier had QT been used.  It would have... DOS was a real
pain for doing mouse and graphics stuff.  QT makes it easy..

But QT would have also slowed a DOS era processor to a stop, and
it would probably still be trying to refresh the screen ;-)

-Chuck Harris

Mark Sims wrote:

Lady Heather predates QT by several years...  actually back to 1985 when her 
mommy
controlled Magellan GPS receivers.  A version ran on HP95LX palmtops during the
first Gulf War. The server option just uses the server program to connect the
GPSDO serial port to the net.  On the other end Lady Heather uses the TCPIP
connection data like it came from a serial port...  so you need a Windoze box to
run Lady Heather and display the data.


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Re: [time-nuts] Possible 5372A available .. my usual luck

[Magnus Danielson]

Pete,

On 01/12/2016 05:44 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

I've been lucking for a 5372A with option 020 (fast memory i/o). Well two
5372A's showed up on the Eplace and one had option 020,the other didn't I
bid and won.


Yay!


They shipped me the one wrong one.


Bummer.


The seller has offered to have me ship it back but before I do, is anyone
interested ?

I paid just over $220 for it.

I'm going to ask the seller to consider meeting half way on it, if not I
can either send it
back for a full refund or offer it here, I'm in Portland OR and it is HEAVY,


Well. The Option 020 isn't all that many pieces, at least in mine there 
already seemed to be all the drivers etc. on the board so all I was 
missing was the connectors at the back, oh... and flipping the 020 
option DIP-switch.


They should ship you the board and cables out of the back of the other 
5372A.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I’m going to guess “no,” because only one thing can connect to the ser2net 
socket at a time.

If I were going to do it, what I might do is connect up the PPS output of the 
tbolt to a GPIO pin of the RPi and configure that pin for the pps device and 
set up ntpd for that. That way, LH can have the serial interface all to itself. 
I’ve done this with a far more ordinary GPS module to make a public stratum 1 
server out of a Pi Zero for the NTP pool (ntp.kfu.com).

> On Jan 12, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Chris Caudle  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, January 11, 2016 7:00 pm, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
>> ser2net works perfectly as a server for LH.
> 
> Can ntpd using a Thunderbolt as a time source run cooperatively with LH
> accessing the same Thunderbolt over ser2net?  That seems like the best
> case scenario for using a small ARM system with a Thunderbolt as a time
> server.
> 
> -- 
> Chris Caudle
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] Fixing broken HP5065A LED clock

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

This probably belongs in the category of serious overkill, but it was
a nice excuse to learn KICAD and fab a PCB with it:

   http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20160112_working_clock/index.html

I have 9 spare PCBs in case anybody have similar issues.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Tait reference

[Adrian Godwin]

If so, let's hope the sudden surge of purchases will encourage the dealer
to find some more :)


On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Clint Jay  wrote:

> That's a very happy coincidence and one I'd hoped to hear.
>
> The pictures in the auction seem to show a lack of tarnish on the Ref Out
> and Ref In BNCs which suggests they have had plugs on them, looping the
> internal reference, other little bits of information also pointed to that,
> the remnants of a sticker on the front of one unit seems to say
> 'RUBID01...', past auctions of T801 units have been labelled with things
> like 'RUBID048', the hex switches seem to be set correctly for use with an
> internal reference as well so I was quietly confident they had the Rb
> option fitted.
>
> Now I just have to cross my fingers that mine arrive with the Rb in good
> conditon. The seller also states 'working order' so there's possible scope
> for a refund if it doesn't.
>
> On 12 January 2016 at 12:24, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Are these the references with a rubidium oscillator ?  They seem  to
> have
> > similar models with OCXOs etc.
> > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111862884745
> >
> > ---
> > Well now, how's this for a happy coincidence.
> >
> > I've just received an email from a friend who bought a Tait T801 from
> that
> > very same auction, asking about the rubidium module that he  found inside
> > it:-)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Nigel
> > Gm8PZR
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Clint.
>
> *No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
> of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Chris Caudle]

>> On Jan 12, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Chris Caudle  wrote:
>> Can ntpd using a Thunderbolt as a time source run cooperatively with LH
>> accessing the same Thunderbolt over ser2net?  That seems like the best

On Tue, January 12, 2016 4:01 pm, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
> I'm going to guess no, because only one thing can connect to the
> ser2net socket at a time.

No, ntpd would be getting time from the serial port, not from the network
socket.  The idea would be that ntpd was getting the clock time from the
serial port, but the time messages would be interleaved with whatever data
the Thunderbolt was sending back in request to the LH commands.

LH would also be seeing the time messages, but it sees those anyway, so I
think the only concern would be the behavior of ntpd when all the data
from LH commands is going by.  Possibly a second concern of whether ntpd
sends any commands to the Thunderbolt that might cause LH to be confused
by responses to commands LH did not send.

> If I were going to do it, what I might do is connect up the PPS output of
> the tbolt to a GPIO pin of the RPi and configure that pin for the pps
> device and set up ntpd for that.

You still have to get wall clock time from somewhere, PPS just delineates
the seconds, it doesn't name the seconds.
For some cases you could have ntpd get the starting time from another
network source and just use PPS to keep track of the seconds after that,
but then you would still have corner cases of knowing when leap seconds
occurred, maybe others.
And of course if you relied on network access to other time servers you
could not operate on an isolated network.

> That way, LH can have the serial
> interface all to itself. I've done this with a far more ordinary GPS
> module to make a public stratum 1 server out of a Pi Zero for the NTP pool
> (ntp.kfu.com).
>

How did it get the correct time set at startup?  Did it have to query
other network servers to set the time, then the PPS controlled the clock
after that?
Can it be a "stratum 1" server if it has to rely on another server to get
the correct time when it starts up?  I guess it could if it doesn't serve
time until it has checked with other stratum 1 servers to make sure the
time is correct.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off into those weeds, but that isn't the system I
want.
I want a machine which can get the correct current time without reference
to another system, which means that ntpd must get the time information
from somewhere, either by directly reading the serial port, or passed
through from gpsd which is reading the serial port, or some similar setup.
The PPS driver would be connected directly to ntpd.

-- 
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] (OT) Looking for a paper from NAV01 (RIN International Conference on Navigation)

[Philip Pemberton]

On 06/01/16 22:00, Jochen Frieling wrote:
> First off it looks like they won't even give out the 450 page work, but
> only photocopies of requested articles/pages ("bestellbar / nur Kopie").

That seems to be more or less in line with a lot of reference libraries'
policies. The British Library will allow you to book a time and look at
a journal or paper in their Reading Rooms (assuming they hold a copy),
but primarily they distribute photocopies and scanned copies.


> As I live close to Hannover, I will give it a try the next days to
> obtain a copy of the Hartinger,Willson,Cousins paper.
> Nothing is lost, but keep your fingers crossed.
> 
> I will then see to it that it is made accessible for you and Attila and
> the others interested.

It would be fantastic if you could -- thank you very much in advance!


Thanks,
-- 
Phil.
li...@philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Ben Hall]

Hi Mark and list,

On 1/10/2016 6:31 PM, Mark Sims wrote:

Probably not right now...  it's not so much as knowing C,  it's
knowing the ins and out of knowing how your operating system
(Windows, Linux, etc) interfaces with your hardware (display, mouse,
serial port, keyboard).   Basically, if you have to ask the question,
your are probably not ready to attempt the task.


I was pretty sure that this was going to be the case, but figured I'd 
ask.  I was hoping it would be something not technically difficult, just 
time consuming.  :)


thanks much,
ben
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

If you telnet or nc into your rpi on port 3200, you should get a connection and 
you should get a bunch of garbage. If not, ser2net isn’t working. Is it 
running? sudo /etc/init.d/ser2net restart (did you do that after changing the 
config file?)

If ser2net is working then it must be something about the LH params that’s 
incorrect. Do you have the correct IP address and port? Is there anything 
between the two - firewalls or routers or the like?

> On Jan 12, 2016, at 12:58 AM, Ed Armstrong  wrote:
> 
> More details please. I've installed it, but can't make it work. My USB/serial 
> cable is /dev/ttyUSB0 just like yours. I used your .conf file. But lady 
> heather says connection rejected.
> 
> 
> Ed
> 
> On 1/11/2016 8:00 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
>> I answered my own question. :)
>> 
>> ser2net works perfectly as a “server” for LH. I’m using a USB to serial 
>> adapter and the ser2net.conf line for it is
>> 
>> 3200:raw:0:/dev/ttyUSB0:9600 8DATABITS NONE 1STOPBIT LOCAL
>> 
>> And for LH, /ip=n.n.n.n:3200 works.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 9:30 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How about a simpler question. I see in the documentation that LH can use a 
>>> network connection to remotely read. Can a server for that protocol be made 
>>> for the RPi? That would be super awesome deluxe for me, and assuming it's 
>>> just a serial-to-TCP protocol should be nearly trivial to write (heck, 
>>> netcat might already just do it).
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
>>> 
> I wonder if I've got anywhere near the skills to do it...
 Probably not right now...  it's not so much as knowing C,  it's knowing 
 the ins and out of knowing how your operating system (Windows, Linux, etc) 
 interfaces with your hardware (display, mouse, serial port, keyboard).   
 Basically, if you have to ask the question,  your are probably not ready 
 to attempt the task.
 Lady Heather is a pretty simple program,  but it is rather long and 
 divided into 5 files.  Just getting set up to compile it in a new 
 environment can be quite a challenge to the un-initiated (acouple of 
 toupees worth of hair pulling once you can compile and link a simple 
 "hello world" program.
 Then you need to figure out how to draw dots and characters,  talk to the 
 serial port,  talk to the mouse, talk to the keyboard.   Pretty basic 
 stuff once you are familiar with your operating system/environment,  but 
 not something most people do everyday...
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Chris Caudle]

On Mon, January 11, 2016 7:00 pm, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
> ser2net works perfectly as a server for LH.

Can ntpd using a Thunderbolt as a time source run cooperatively with LH
accessing the same Thunderbolt over ser2net?  That seems like the best
case scenario for using a small ARM system with a Thunderbolt as a time
server.

-- 
Chris Caudle




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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Server On Raspberry Pi 2 Model B?

[Mike George]

Ed:

A few recommendations for troubleshooting.

In /etc/ser2net.conf comment out the 4 default lines (/dev/ttyS0-3)
so that the line Nick provided is the only config present.

Stop ser2net:
 /etc/init.d/ser2net stop
then restart:
 /etc/init.d/ser2net start

Make sure ser2net is running:
 ps -ef | grep ser2net

If not, tail /var/log/syslog and see if any errors were reported on 
statrtup.

Normally you just see a single line reporting successful startup.

If it is running , make sure it is listening on the socket you specified 
(3200):

   netstat -tln | grep 3200

you should see a line with 0.0.0.0:3200 under local address

There is additional troubleshooting you can do depending on results
of above steps.

Good luck.

Mike

On 1/12/2016 03:58, Ed Armstrong wrote:
More details please. I've installed it, but can't make it work. My 
USB/serial cable is /dev/ttyUSB0 just like yours. I used your .conf 
file. But lady heather says connection rejected.



Ed

On 1/11/2016 8:00 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:

I answered my own question. :)

ser2net works perfectly as a “server” for LH. I’m using a USB to 
serial adapter and the ser2net.conf line for it is


3200:raw:0:/dev/ttyUSB0:9600 8DATABITS NONE 1STOPBIT LOCAL

And for LH, /ip=n.n.n.n:3200 works.

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