[time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[Mark Sims]

I'm not sure what the Z3801A uses for EFC range.   Heather uses the EFC 
relative command to report the EFC setting.  That command reports values from 
-100% to 100%.   There is a command that reports the DAC input in counts, but 
nothing documented that shows volts/count.

Since the DAC is at -2V with a 99+% DAC setting, it looks like the DAC circuit 
has issues, or power supply problems.   I think the DAC circuit is a 16 bit DAC 
with 4 more bits of resolution created by dithering the DAC inputs.
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[time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[Mark Sims]

First check for power / ground shorts on the power supply outputs with an ohm 
meter.   There is a good chance of a shorted tantalum cap somewhere in the 
system shutting down the supply.  If the power supply is connected to the 
system via a connector,  disconnect it from the system and see if the supply 
puts out anything.
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[Tom Curlee]

What is the rail to rail EFC voltage on the Z3801A?  Is it different than the 
single oven 10811?  My 10811 manual says that the EFC is -5V to +5V, while the 
EFC voltage on my ailing Z3801 is ~-2.0V with LH reporting the DAC at 
99.996902%.
Haven't had time to dig any further - been moving/installing antennas including 
one of my GPS antennas.


  From: Mark Sims 
 To: "time-nuts@febo.com"  
 Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 7:36 PM
 Subject: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming
   
Or, it you are sure it's the OCXO,  go shopping for a new one.    There is a 
reputable seller with them (the double oven version) for $100 on Ebay.

A couple of things to try...  monitor the EFC voltage, power up the unit, and 
see if it is changing as it attempts to lock.  If  it does not, you may have a 
DAC problem... I don't think the Z3801 remembers the last DAC voltage to speed 
up the initial lock, so it should be searching for the lock voltage.

Also monitor the OCXO output and see how it changes as it warms up.  It should 
start out several Hz off and converge to 10 MHz as it warms up.  



> Either tear into the OCXO or go shopping for a new(er) GPSDO.
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[time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[Bob Martin]

We had a brief power outage a few days ago.

My TS2100 didn't power up afterwards. Fuses are fine, AC power delivered to 
power supply, which is producing nothing. Nothing looks/smells fried on the 
power supply.

Couldn't find data on what the power supply output voltages should be; not in 
the meagre documentation, .

I'd appreciate help from someone with a TS2100 while I look for faults in this 
little switching power supply. Looks like three voltages, +5 and what else? Is 
this a more or less standard supply?

Appreciate any help I can get!

Bob K6RTM



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[time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[Mark Sims]

Or, it you are sure it's the OCXO,   go shopping for a new one.There is a 
reputable seller with them (the double oven version) for $100 on Ebay.

A couple of things to try...  monitor the EFC voltage, power up the unit, and 
see if it is changing as it attempts to lock.   If  it does not, you may have a 
DAC problem... I don't think the Z3801 remembers the last DAC voltage to speed 
up the initial lock, so it should be searching for the lock voltage.

Also monitor the OCXO output and see how it changes as it warms up.   It should 
start out several Hz off and converge to 10 MHz as it warms up.   



> Either tear into the OCXO or go shopping for a new(er) GPSDO.
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[rfnuts]

The easiest solution would be to drill a hole in the right place in
order to access the screw that covers the trimmer hole of the inner OCXO
housing.

Does anyone have a disassembled double oven 10811 at hands and could
take the required measures plus check if any vital parts of the outer
oven are in the way?

Adrian

Am 03.03.2018 um 19:37 schrieb Tom Curlee:
> Since the Z3801A is being discussed, I thought I'd ask about an issue I'm 
> having with my unit.  I use my Z3801 as my working lab standard for the usual 
> pieces of RF test equipment.  In the past year or so I've had the unit drop 
> out of lock and go into standby mode.  Resetting/cycling power would bring it 
> back into lock for a while, but it generally got worse and now stays in hold 
> over mode.  LH (thanks Mark Sims!!) reports that everything is operating 
> normally except that the it has a PLL unlock.  The one highly suspicious item 
> is that the DAC is at 99.996902% - full output.
> The unit shows it has over 94.5K hours run time, so I suspect that the OCXO 
> has aged to the point that the EFC can't pull it into lock.  I disassembled 
> the OCXO to see if it had a trimmer capacitor like the standard 10811 units.  
> After removing the outer case and foam insulation, I see that the outer 
> heater is one of the thin printed circuit serpentine heaters on what I think 
> is Kapton.  That would need to be peeled off of the case to either get to the 
> hole for the trimmer (if there is one) or to remove the cover for the inner 
> case.
> What I don't understand is the purpose of what looks like another coil or 
> heater wrapped around the Kapton printed circuit heater stuck to the inner 
> case.  This second coil/heater is 2 layers of 1/8" thick red foam wrapped 
> completely around the inner case, with fine copper wires wrapped over each 
> layer.  At least I think there are wires on each layer.  This whole second 
> heater is taped down and I don't want to dig any further until I know a bit 
> more about what I'm doing or find that there isn't a trimmer on the double 
> oven 10811 oscillators.
> Any ideas on the purpose of the outer heater (or whatever it is)?  Does the 
> double oven 10811 have a manual trimmer that I can adjust to bring the 
> oscillator back to the center of the EFC range?  Assuming that I can manually 
> adjust the OCXO back into adjustment range, will there be any issues with the 
> Z3801 performance, things like phase noise, short term stability, etc?
> Any suggestions will be most appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Tom
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Either tear into the OCXO or go shopping for a new(er) GPSDO. The
Z38xx devices all had a lot more in common with each other than they
did differences. The OCXO design changed from the 10811 to various
more modern designs. The disciplining process seems to have remained
pretty much the same over the years. 

Bob

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 11:21 AM, Joe Hobart  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you, Hal, for these links and to others for your comments.
> 
> Setting the oven temperature on a turning point appears tedious.  Perhaps 
> there
> is enough range in the frequency adjustment to put the oscillator back on
> frequency - or close enough for the EFC to be effective.  If not, I may have 
> to
> adjust the temperature, but time is limited.
> 
> Some measurements with the EFC disconnected and a calibrated frequency 
> counter:
> 
> .815  KHz  at Z3801A turn on
> 
> .9984 KHz  highest frequency seen (temperature overshoot)
> 
> .9947 KHz  approximate final frequency
> 
> The EFC does have wide range; it can almost pull the 5.3 Hz offset onto 
> frequency.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Joe, W7LUX
> 
> 
>> Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat accessible
>> without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
>> assembly?
> 
> https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm
> 
> https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[paul swed]

Crazy thought.Could you just force a DC offset into the EFC assuming the
internal varicap is not out of range.
It would be simply adding a resistor to pull up or down to see if you can
get a bit of pull and allow the dac to move back in range a bit. Its a band
aid.
I know its sort of crazy. But ripping the oven apart really is no fun at
all.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Joe Hobart  wrote:

>
> Thank you, Hal, for these links and to others for your comments.
>
> Setting the oven temperature on a turning point appears tedious.  Perhaps
> there
> is enough range in the frequency adjustment to put the oscillator back on
> frequency - or close enough for the EFC to be effective.  If not, I may
> have to
> adjust the temperature, but time is limited.
>
> Some measurements with the EFC disconnected and a calibrated frequency
> counter:
>
>  .815  KHz  at Z3801A turn on
>
>  .9984 KHz  highest frequency seen (temperature overshoot)
>
>  .9947 KHz  approximate final frequency
>
> The EFC does have wide range; it can almost pull the 5.3 Hz offset onto
> frequency.
>
> Thanks again,
> Joe, W7LUX
>
>
> > Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat
> accessible
> > without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
> > assembly?
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[Thomas Miller]

 Take a look at the Maxim
DS32KHZS 32.768kHz Temperature-Compensated Crystal Oscillator TCXO
 Available in 14 pin dip, needs +5 (you have), batt (you have, ground. Supplies 
32,768 that you feed into pin 17 of the clock chip after removing the existing 
Xtal. Supposed to hold 1 min per year over the full temp range with no 
adjustment. 

This guy says he has them in the 14 pin dip:


Regards



 

-Original Message-
From: D. Resor 
To: 'Tom Van Baak' ; 'Discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement' 
Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2018 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC.  In 
addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell 
solenoids.  This where the AC reference is "sampled"  I cannot completely cut 
out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI.

A lot to study.




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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[Joe Hobart]

Thank you, Hal, for these links and to others for your comments.

Setting the oven temperature on a turning point appears tedious.  Perhaps there
is enough range in the frequency adjustment to put the oscillator back on
frequency - or close enough for the EFC to be effective.  If not, I may have to
adjust the temperature, but time is limited.

Some measurements with the EFC disconnected and a calibrated frequency counter:

 .815  KHz  at Z3801A turn on

 .9984 KHz  highest frequency seen (temperature overshoot)

 .9947 KHz  approximate final frequency

The EFC does have wide range; it can almost pull the 5.3 Hz offset onto 
frequency.

Thanks again,
Joe, W7LUX


> Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat accessible
> without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
> assembly?

https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm

https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm

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[time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[Mark Sims]

I've been known to use the egg timer mode in the kitchen... I get distracted 
easily and burned food has been known to occur.  Due to system vagaries, it is 
probably only accurate to say 30 milliseconds (better on Linux, of course), so 
less than perfect eggs are possible.  I've thought about letting the alarm set 
a modem control line so that you can control an automatic egg extractor device.

The egg timer can be configured to sound the alarm file once, or repeatedly 
until you stop it.  It can also be set to automatically re-start a new 
countdown.

The alarm clock can be set with a time, a date, or a date/time.  When set with 
just a time, it will trigger every day at that time.  If the time you set is 
less than the current time, it triggers on the next day.   

Currently you can only set one egg timer and one alarm time... I'm thinking of 
adding support for multiple timers so you can cook more than one thing at a 
time.   

I did add the ability to add an alarm time to the greetings calendar events.  I 
might add the ability of things like the equinox events to automatically fill 
in the proper alarm time.

Heather can also play sounds at sunrise, sun transit, and sunset (or 
moonrise/moon transit/moonset).  The default is a rooster at rise/set and 
church bells at solar noon.



> because doesn't everyone time their soft boiled eggs to the microsecond? 
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[time-nuts] Has anyone played with a SRS FS740?

[Tom Knox]

Hi All;

Has anyone had hands on experience with a FS740 or any thoughts in general? 
Seem like a really nice box.

Thanks;

Thomas Knox

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[William H. Fite]

To the yoctosecond. Very fine sand in the li'l hourglass.



On Monday, March 5, 2018, jimlux  wrote:

> On 3/5/18 10:26 AM, Mark Sims wrote:
>
> Besides those clocks Heather has alarm clock and egg timer alarms.
>>
>
>
> because doesn't everyone time their soft boiled eggs to the microsecond?
> (hmm, my Z3801 GPSDO is probably good to 1E-11 at tau of 300 seconds, so
> that's a potential error of 3ns ) 
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-- 
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
for sinners. His standards are quite low.
--Desmond Tutu
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[jimlux]

On 3/5/18 10:26 AM, Mark Sims wrote:


Besides those clocks Heather has alarm clock and egg timer alarms.



because doesn't everyone time their soft boiled eggs to the microsecond? 
 (hmm, my Z3801 GPSDO is probably good to 1E-11 at tau of 300 seconds, 
so that's a potential error of 3ns ) 

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[time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[Mark Sims]

The university that I hang out at has a clock tower with a full set of bells.  
Several years ago the tower and bells were restored,  at hefty expense.   But, 
alas, some no-goodnik neighbors objected to the sound, so they cut back the use 
of the clock.  I don't know what system they use to get the time and sound the 
bells.   The bells can also be played from a keyboard (used to be done by a 
professor in the electrical engineering department until he passed away).  It's 
rare to hear the bells played anymore.

Lady Heather has support for several audible clocks.

The simplest in the v6 Beta code is a tick clock.  Ticks on the second and 
beeps on the minute.  This ticks/beeps are compensated for the delays/offsets 
in the GPS time message.   This mode is intended for doing things like setting 
mechanical clocks.

There is a Ships Bells mode that sounds the time in ships bells format.

There is a cuckoo clock mode.

There is a singing clock that can be configured to play .wav files at various 
minutes past the hour.  The default config plays passages from the Palestrina, 
Missa Assumpta est Maria.

I've been meaning to add a Big Ben mode that allows both playing a file on the 
hour and then chiming the hour (a cross between the singing clock and the 
cuckoo clock).   The easiest way to do that would be to have 12 separate hour 
files.

Besides those clocks Heather has alarm clock and egg timer alarms.

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[Thomas Miller]

Ok, looking at the pictures and the datasheet gives several questions.

1)  What signal is on TP1? Is it 32,768 Hz?
2)  What does C3 do? Is it used to trim the 32,768 Xtal?

3)  Out of curiosity what is the frequency of U2, the oscillator module?

Maybe you can remove the 32,768 Xtal and feed in a more accurate reference 
(from a 32,768 TCXO or OCXO). Or a derived from a 10 MHz GPSDO divided to 
32,768 and fed into pin 17 of the 5832?

I wonder if the 60 Hz line option just feeds an input to the Z80 processor and 
the time keeping is done in software? Again, what does C3 do?

I know there are some Rb oscillators that can be programmed to output 32,768 
Hz. Might try looking for one of those.


 Interesting problem. Thanks for sharing it.

Regards,

 

-Original Message-
From: D. Resor 
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
Sent: Mon, Mar 5, 2018 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that.

I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. 
However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used 
units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult.  Some of the 
integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also.


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of 
answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a 
soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the 
web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no 
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring 
circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz 
out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get 
the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


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Re: [time-nuts] ECS ECOC-2522 (was GPS Talking Clock)

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I’ve built two GPSDO units now with this OCXO. For the first one, I fed the DAC 
(AD5680) from the oscillator’s reference output. This resulted in a very poor 
(compared to expected) short term ADEV result (1-2 E-11). There was a lot of 
noise (something like 5 mV P-P) on the reference output. Also, rather oddly, 
the reference voltage was something like 2.8v. The datasheet doesn’t say what 
the expected voltage is, but if you were to use that as your DAC reference, 
you’d be throwing away the top 20% or so of the tuning range.

For the second unit, I built it with the same circuit I use for the CW OH300, 
which lacks a reference output. There, instead, I use an NCP51460 precision 
regulator for a reference. There, I achieved a short term ADEV much closer to 
expectations. It’s just under 6E-12 at tau 1-5s. ECS claims it ought to be 
closer to 3, but it’s entirely possible that my reference (Thunderbolt) and/or 
counter (53220A) are contributing error, or that my design has some other noise 
contribution I haven’t yet found. Still, it’s at least in the ball park. And 
the oscillator hasn’t even yet been running for 24 hours, so it may get better 
with some time (I’m a little skeptical about wear-in helping low-tau ADEV 
though. Doesn’t that usually operate on longer term drift instead?).

In both cases, the reference was bypassed with a 10 µF and 0.1 µF chip cap 
adjacent to the DAC. Both power supplies had similarly low levels of noise and 
ripple. The worst that you could say about either was the amount of blowback 
from the oscillator itself was far higher than the input noise.

Of course, sample size here is 1 each, so it’s possible that the first one was 
just a dud. But the theory that the noise on the reference is FMing the output 
fits the observations.


> On Feb 18, 2018, at 7:54 AM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> No they don’t. I wrote and asked them and they sent me back some sample data. 
> They were a pretty pleasant surprise.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 18, 2018, at 6:04 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 17, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Nick Sayer via time-nuts  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It’s been a while since I’ve posted here, but I’ve had a bunch of irons in 
>>> the fire. I’m working on adapting my GPSDO to the ECS ECOC-2522, which the 
>>> manufacturer claims has a short term ADEV in the low -12s, but I haven’t 
>>> gotten it doing that well yet.
>> 
>> At least on this data sheet: 
>> 
>> https://www.ecsxtal.com/store/pdf/ECOC-2522.pdf
>> 
>> They don’t say much of anything at all about ADEV. OCXO’s in the little 
>> packages are rarely super stars when it comes to ADEV.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> But one thing that is ready (well, electronically it is - I’m still working 
>>> on the laser cut case for it) is my GPS Talking Clock.
>>> 
>>> The story is that I called the USNO time number at midnight on New Year’s 
>>> Day, but the wife noted that it was the wrong time zone. That got me 
>>> thinking, and I wound up designing a GPS driven simulacrum.
>>> 
>>> It’s an ATXmega32E5 with the usual Venus838 timing module and a µSD card 
>>> slot. The card is loaded with audio samples that the 32E5 plays back 
>>> through its DAC. I got double-buffered DMA to work to feed the DAC, so 
>>> audio playback is a largely background task. I just have to fill the buffer 
>>> with the next block from the file every ~30 ms or so. The ticks and beeps 
>>> are generated from an on board 1 kHz source and are turned on by a PPS ISR, 
>>> so they’re as accurate as possible. The whole thing is basically as 
>>> accurate as an aural clock can be - the latency induced by the speed of 
>>> sound has far more impact than anything else.
>>> 
>>> While the audio is turned off, the clock can also do Westminster Quarters 
>>> (or any other chime you wish to load in).
>>> 
>>> The µSD card is FAT formatted and the audio sample files are easy to make 
>>> with ‘sox’ (raw, 1 channel, 8 kHz, 16 bit little-endian, unsigned), so 
>>> there’s no reason you can’t substitute my voice with your own, or make your 
>>> own chimes.
>>> 
>>> It’s available at https://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/gps-talking-clock/
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Tom Knox]

I think what makes the IWatch unique is it has an option that makes it a 
standalone cell phone. With this new option it no longer need to be in 
proximity of you IPhone. You leave the IPhone at home and have a fully function 
cell phone on your wrist. The only hitch is they will not let you active a 
watch separately, it must be tied to you IPhone number.

Garmin also make some nice sport watches that a fully functional GPS receivers. 
Everything but a one PPS and 10MHz output.

Cheers;

Thomas Knox





From: time-nuts  on behalf of Nick Sayer via 
time-nuts 
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 10:13 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

Lots of folks have chimed in on this thread, but I will just add that the Apple 
watch is an NTP client. I’m extremely happy with mine, but the reasons I am are 
far, far wider than its accuracy (which I can only judge by eye, which is an 
extraordinary low bar for a Time Nut).

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 10:38 PM, Don Murray via time-nuts  
> wrote:
>
> Hello Time Nuts...
>
>
>
> After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
> hour of the day, flawless transfer between
> standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
> Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>
> Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
> each with some type of problem.
>
> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>
> So, Time Nuts...  any suggestions or recommendations?
>
> TNX
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

Lots of folks have chimed in on this thread, but I will just add that the Apple 
watch is an NTP client. I’m extremely happy with mine, but the reasons I am are 
far, far wider than its accuracy (which I can only judge by eye, which is an 
extraordinary low bar for a Time Nut).

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 10:38 PM, Don Murray via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Time Nuts...
> 
> 
>  
> After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
> hour of the day, flawless transfer between
> standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
> Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>  
> Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
> each with some type of problem.  
>  
> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>  
> So, Time Nuts...  any suggestions or recommendations?
>  
> TNX
>  
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[William H. Fite]

And that is just my point--well, part of it, anyway--ultra-precise
measurement of time is profoundly important, and rightly the primary focus
of this group. But for the wrist, very, very few of us need pin-point
accuracy--though many seem to perceive that we do. My Tissot mechanical
chronograph is right now doing a fantastic job of timing the eggs I'm
boiling for my lunch.



On Monday, March 5, 2018, Larry McDavid  wrote:

> I really don't want a conductive metal-case watch on my arm. What I do
> want is a light-weight, thin watch with day, date and analog display with
> sweep second hand. Not digital... Ok, that may be old-fashioned but it
> suits me. I've never found a suitable wwvb watch.
>
> So, I opt for an inexpensive (<$50) Swatch. Very light-weight, thin,
> plastic case, plastic band, all non-conductive. And, externally-replaceable
> power button cell.
>
> Accuracy? Ok, not TimeNut accuracy but I find mine is accurate to 5
> seconds per month. And, the second hand is settable.
>
> I do carry an Android cell phone; its clock is always a few seconds off. I
> use an app, Sol Et Umbra, that reads the internal GPS clock for displayed
> time and it also displays the difference between NTP and the phone internal
> clock. This is a sundial design/interpretation app but it gives the time of
> local solar noon (sun meridian transit), a value I use rather often. It is
> written by a prominent sundial enthusiast, is free and has no
> advertisements; it does lots more, too.
>
> But, honestly, I usually just look at my analog Swatch!
>
> Larry W6FUB
>
>
> On 3/5/2018 7:45 AM, Jerry Hancock wrote:
>
>> An by the way, I also have a Tissot P-touch as a retirement gift from
>> IBM.  Got the watch, as they say.  I can say it is very accurate for a
>> non-disciplined watch if you wear it every day
>>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
>
> Larry McDavid W6FUB
> Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
for sinners. His standards are quite low.
--Desmond Tutu
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Adrian Godwin]

Eurochron (I believe they're low-end brand of Junghams) make a plastic
DCF77 watch. 'Plastic' doesn't do it justice - although the one I had
eventually wore away, it was attractive and well made and lasted for
several years.

I think this is the WWVB equivalent.

http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/ateuransporw4.html


On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Larry McDavid  wrote:

> I really don't want a conductive metal-case watch on my arm. What I do
> want is a light-weight, thin watch with day, date and analog display with
> sweep second hand. Not digital... Ok, that may be old-fashioned but it
> suits me. I've never found a suitable wwvb watch.
>
> So, I opt for an inexpensive (<$50) Swatch. Very light-weight, thin,
> plastic case, plastic band, all non-conductive. And, externally-replaceable
> power button cell.
>
> Accuracy? Ok, not TimeNut accuracy but I find mine is accurate to 5
> seconds per month. And, the second hand is settable.
>
> I do carry an Android cell phone; its clock is always a few seconds off. I
> use an app, Sol Et Umbra, that reads the internal GPS clock for displayed
> time and it also displays the difference between NTP and the phone internal
> clock. This is a sundial design/interpretation app but it gives the time of
> local solar noon (sun meridian transit), a value I use rather often. It is
> written by a prominent sundial enthusiast, is free and has no
> advertisements; it does lots more, too.
>
> But, honestly, I usually just look at my analog Swatch!
>
> Larry W6FUB
>
>
> On 3/5/2018 7:45 AM, Jerry Hancock wrote:
>
>> An by the way, I also have a Tissot P-touch as a retirement gift from
>> IBM.  Got the watch, as they say.  I can say it is very accurate for a
>> non-disciplined watch if you wear it every day
>>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
>
> Larry McDavid W6FUB
> Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
>
> ___
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> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

A very normal way to get the 60 Hz into the clock chips is to pull it off
of something like the 24V transformer winding. They run through a resistor
over to a limiter circuit to turn the sine wave into a square wave. That
square wave heads into the input pin on the clock chip. Some “quality time”
spent working out what’s what on the pc board should allow you to find 
the relevant section of the board. 

Once you find the right stuff, it should be as simple as opening up a 
resistor and running a jumper wire to the right spot on the board. Feed
the wire with your new 60 Hz square wave out of Tom’s PICDIV. The
“mods” should be very reversible and not a threat to the longevity of
the DCBI. 

Bob

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 9:17 AM, D. Resor  wrote:
> 
> The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC.  In 
> addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell 
> solenoids.  This where the AC reference is "sampled"  I cannot completely cut 
> out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI.
> 
> A lot to study.
> 
> 
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
> http://hammondorganservice.com
> Hammond USA warranty service
> "Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they 
> don’t." --Jonathan Winters
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:02 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator
> 
> Donald,
> 
> Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem:
> 
> 1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider 
> using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz 
> controlled.
> 
> 2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or 
> ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? 
> How many seconds per week is your limit?
> 
> 3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; 
> probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and 
> feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead.
> 
> 4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what 
> is the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, 
> perhaps it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz.
> 
>> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be 
>> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net 
>> server or possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.
> 
> Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz 
> is a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is.
> 
> /tvb
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "D. Resor" 
> To: "Time Nuts List" 
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM
> Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
>> source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the
>> requirements.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
>> controller.  
>> 
>> Seen here:
>> http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
>> jpg
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
>> here:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
>> using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is,
>> this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
>> sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz
>> line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
>> seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
>> that setting isn't much better.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
>> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
>> possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Does such a thing exist?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank You
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
>> 
>> http://hammondorganservice.com
>> Hammond USA warranty service
>> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
>> don't." --Jonathan Winters

Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Larry McDavid]

I really don't want a conductive metal-case watch on my arm. What I do 
want is a light-weight, thin watch with day, date and analog display 
with sweep second hand. Not digital... Ok, that may be old-fashioned but 
it suits me. I've never found a suitable wwvb watch.


So, I opt for an inexpensive (<$50) Swatch. Very light-weight, thin, 
plastic case, plastic band, all non-conductive. And, 
externally-replaceable power button cell.


Accuracy? Ok, not TimeNut accuracy but I find mine is accurate to 5 
seconds per month. And, the second hand is settable.


I do carry an Android cell phone; its clock is always a few seconds off. 
I use an app, Sol Et Umbra, that reads the internal GPS clock for 
displayed time and it also displays the difference between NTP and the 
phone internal clock. This is a sundial design/interpretation app but it 
gives the time of local solar noon (sun meridian transit), a value I use 
rather often. It is written by a prominent sundial enthusiast, is free 
and has no advertisements; it does lots more, too.


But, honestly, I usually just look at my analog Swatch!

Larry W6FUB


On 3/5/2018 7:45 AM, Jerry Hancock wrote:

An by the way, I also have a Tissot P-touch as a retirement gift from IBM.  Got 
the watch, as they say.  I can say it is very accurate for a non-disciplined 
watch if you wear it every day


--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Attila Kinali]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:45:51 -0800
Jerry Hancock  wrote:

> An by the way, I also have a Tissot P-touch as a retirement gift from IBM.  
> Got the watch, as they say.  I can say it is very accurate for a non-
> disciplined watch if you wear it every day.

Even if you do not wear it, it's very accurate. I guess they use
the internal termperature sensor to compensate the crystal. 
How they get to sub-ppm stability over half a year, I have no clue.
And this one is almost 20 years old.

Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Jerry Hancock]

An by the way, I also have a Tissot P-touch as a retirement gift from IBM.  Got 
the watch, as they say.  I can say it is very accurate for a non-disciplined 
watch if you wear it every day.

Regards,

Jerry


Jerry Hancock
je...@hanler.com
(415) 215-3779

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 2:44 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:38:06 -0500
> Don Murray via time-nuts  wrote:
> 
> 
>> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
>> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
> 
> I've owned several Swatch and Tissot over the past decades,
> Growing up in Switzerland does that to you. :-)
> 
> I currently have a Tissot P-Touch (first generation) and
> a Swatch Irony in active use. Both are accurate enough
> that I only set them twice a year (DST switch) and they
> are usually off by less than 10s. Which is good enough
> for my needs as a wristwatch.
> 
> So I guess, go for any modern Swiss quartz watch :-)
> 
>   Attila Kinali
> 
> -- 
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
> use without that foundation.
> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Jerry Hancock]

If you are into rugged, I have a casio atomic solar that special forces use…

I was able to tail-end a gov’t contract and got it for cheap.

aren’t we silly.

Regards,

Jerry


Jerry Hancock
je...@hanler.com
(415) 215-3779

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 10:38 PM, Don Murray via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Time Nuts...
> 
> 
>  
> After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
> hour of the day, flawless transfer between
> standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
> Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>  
> Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
> each with some type of problem.  
>  
> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>  
> So, Time Nuts...  any suggestions or recommendations?
>  
> TNX
>  
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[William H. Fite]

For those of us whose time-nuttery extends into the fascinating world of
mechanical watches and clocks, the kind of accuracy usually discussed here
is not only impossible but essentially irrelevant (quelle horreur!). Our
interest is in the beauty and elegance of micromechanical devices that have
evolved over centuries. When I look down at one of the 25 or so
wristwatches in my small collection or up at the ten wall and floor clocks
in my home, I am seeing far more than merely the time. If all I want is the
time, I can always glance at my phone or go to the basement and fiddle with
one or another of the electronic devices there.

My oldest watch, a Waltham Model 57, has been running continuously for 150
years and still keeps time within a minute per day. Horology is about so
much more than crystals and resonances and Allen deviations.



On Monday, March 5, 2018, Gerhard Hoffmann  wrote:

>
>
> Am 05.03.2018 um 14:01 schrieb Bob kb8tq:
>
>> If you want to stick with WWV, the Citizen “Ecco Drive” (solar) WWVB
>>
> ECO-Drive
>
>> watches are a pretty good option. Until I caved in to the wonders of
>> a cell phone on my wrist, I used them for many years. Nothing to fuss
>> with. No battery to die on you. Always keeps the right time. Available
>> in titanium. The only drawback is the limited number of styles they
>> make it in. You may or may not see one you like the looks of.
>>
>>
> I second that. In Europe, it synchronizes to DCF77 and in
> Japan to Fukushima, if that should be operational again.
>
> I wonder how they make it, that it lives from just a few
> photons now & then, year after year.
>
> Gerhard
>
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-- 
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot
for sinners. His standards are quite low.
--Desmond Tutu
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC.  In 
addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell 
solenoids.  This where the AC reference is "sampled"  I cannot completely cut 
out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI.

A lot to study.


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:02 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald,

Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem:

1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider 
using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz 
controlled.

2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or 
ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? 
How many seconds per week is your limit?

3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; 
probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and 
feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead.

4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is 
the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps 
it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz.

> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be 
> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net 
> server or possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is 
a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is.

/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "D. Resor" 
To: "Time Nuts List" 
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
> source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.
> 
> 
> 
> The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the
> requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
> controller.  
> 
> Seen here:
> http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
> jpg
> 
> 
> 
> The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
> here:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
> using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.
> 
> 
> 
> This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is,
> this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
> sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz
> line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
> seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.
> 
> 
> 
> The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
> that setting isn't much better.
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
> possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.
> 
> 
> 
> Does such a thing exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
> 
> http://hammondorganservice.com
> Hammond USA warranty service
> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
> don't." --Jonathan Winters
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that.

I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. 
However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used 
units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult.  Some of the 
integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also.


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of 
answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a 
soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the 
web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no 
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring 
circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz 
out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get 
the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

I am sure there are master circuit diagrams of the DCB1 but I've never seen 
them during my visits to the factory.  It was explained to me, there are no 
printed service manuals for the digital product line.

If I have questions the engineer or the owner can answer them.  Which I may 
also need to do.   I do know there was work done for an accessory attachable to 
the DCBIII with the addition of a WWVB receiver or GPS, (which is an expanded 
version of the DCBI) I cannot remember of the two technologies it was.

I do know that the clock is a OKI m5832, and I have looked at the datasheet 
which explains how the ±30 second pin on the IC is "adjust" on Pin 15, however 
I do not know how the 60Hz is used to trigger it.  

I have uploaded images of the PC boards both component and solder side here in 
a win zipped file folder here:

http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/MRdcb1boards.zip


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Thomas Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:50 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able 
to suss out how they do the internal reference. 

I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used 
some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some 
adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy.

There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency 
reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored.


 Good luck. 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: D. Resor 
To: Time Nuts List 
Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Hello,

 

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a 
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

 

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the 
requirements.

 

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller. 
 

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

 

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

 

 

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections 
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

 

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is, 
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in 
sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz line 
frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or 
more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

 

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that 
setting isn't much better.

 

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be 
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or 
possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

 

Does such a thing exist?

 

Thank You

 

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." 
--Jonathan Winters

 

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

Adrian Goodwin,

Working in reverse here 

Maas-Rowe has been in business since 1922.  The son of the founder of the 
company, Paul Rowe currently president of the company is his golden years.  

The DCB1 which was Maas-Rowe's first generation of a digital controller in 
around 1983 has Westminster chimes, bell tolls for churches, colleges and 
universities.  For instance, Angelus, De Profundis, Change Ringing (Bell 
Peals), Swinging Bell etc.  There were two other generations of this product 
which followed.  The DCBII and DCBIII.  All three units use an external bell 
chime unit with chromatically tuned bell rods with the additional partials 
needed ground into them.

Here is the external Bell Unit which can connect to a DCBI, DCBII or DCBIII. 
The Bell unit contains 15 bell rods, and they are divided up into the Low C 
chord of 3-bells. The rest are divided up into groups of 2-bells.

Maas-Rowe carillon: Close-up of the chimes inside the California Tower at 
Balboa Park in San Diego

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TnjL_nVz0

The DCBI used 8-track cartridge tapes for the musical selections.  The DCBII 
(discontinued) and DCB3 use a 7 or 25 disc Compact Disk Mechanism for the 
musical selections.  

Maas-Rowe Digital Chronobell demo at First UMC, Benton, Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5fZhTbfoM

Six years ago Maas-Rowe Developed a Digital Sequencer unit which contains up to 
25 "Libraries" of musical selections. It also contains the 7 bell voices which 
Maas-Rowe patented played in "real time" from digital samples.

Seen here:

Digital Carillon Player (DCP) Introduction  (Attached to a DCBIII).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUM062-eCoM

In addition Maas-Rowe has manufactured for several decades what is referred to 
as the Grand Symphonic Carillon.  It allows you to play from a keyboard 
console, and it also can contain their MPR1 and MPR2 unit which has musical 
selection storage and a sequencer.

A sample of The Grand Symphonic Carillon can be seen here:

Game of Thrones Theme - Balboa Park Carillon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiKcL7yGc0

Here is another demonstration of The Grand Symphonic Carillon

Carillon Bells ASU MCC collaboration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZoMDxPpGyI

The latest model is the Bell Whether Carillon 

Maas-Rowe Carillons Bellwether
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DDehZRR3ks

Sorry you asked? 


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters






-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Adrian Godwin
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:25 PM
To: Tom Van Baak ; Discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald,

I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume something 
that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ?

I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of chimes, 
but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't describe any 
sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I would imagine it 
would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano.


How does the controller you  are restoring operate ?



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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 05.03.2018 um 14:01 schrieb Bob kb8tq:

If you want to stick with WWV, the Citizen “Ecco Drive” (solar) WWVB

ECO-Drive

watches are a pretty good option. Until I caved in to the wonders of
a cell phone on my wrist, I used them for many years. Nothing to fuss
with. No battery to die on you. Always keeps the right time. Available
in titanium. The only drawback is the limited number of styles they
make it in. You may or may not see one you like the looks of.



I second that. In Europe, it synchronizes to DCF77 and in
Japan to Fukushima, if that should be operational again.

I wonder how they make it, that it lives from just a few
photons now & then, year after year.

Gerhard

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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[paul swed]

I dug in deep and there is an adjustment. Thats the great news. The bad
news was never able to put the oven back together.
It was a mess. The insulation stuff deteriorated. (Might mean over heated
oven)
The various wires going to the oscillator are wrapped about 4 times around
the oven. I am sure the reason is to stop temperature variations but seems
painful.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 11:38 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> n...@npgcable.com said:
> > Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat
> accessible
> > without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
> > assembly?
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] While we are talking about Z3801's

[John Green]

When I removed it from storage, communication was gone. It took a very long
while to lock, but did so and maintained lock for a couple of weeks before
going into holdover. It then locked back for a while.
I definitely need to do more trouble shooting on it before I give up
completely. It was the best unit I have. I also have a couple of
Thunderbolts, but I don't consider them in the same class as the Z3801.
I see Z3801s for sale on eBay, but I am reluctant to buy one. They are at
an age where things are going to fail. Also, for my needs, a Thunderbolt
would suffice. I just like the Z3801 better and would really like to get it
going again.

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> kb...@n1k.org said:
> > If still nothing, put a scope on the RX output of the serial chip in the
> > 3801. Do the same  for the TX input of the same chip.
>
> I think the Z3801A prints out a version string at power up.  Sometimes that
> helps debug the transmit path.
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi


> On Mar 5, 2018, at 1:38 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Time Nuts...
> 
> 
>  
> After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
> hour of the day, flawless transfer between
> standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
> Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>  
> Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
> each with some type of problem.  
>  
> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>  
> So, Time Nuts...  any suggestions or recommendations?

If you want to stick with WWV, the Citizen “Ecco Drive” (solar) WWVB 
watches are a pretty good option. Until I caved in to the wonders of
a cell phone on my wrist, I used them for many years. Nothing to fuss 
with. No battery to die on you. Always keeps the right time. Available 
in titanium. The only drawback is the limited number of styles they
make it in. You may or may not see one you like the looks of. 

Bob

>  
> TNX
>  
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
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Re: [time-nuts] Replacement A9 boards for the HP 5065A

[Didier Juges]

It depends on the quantity they buy. I just looked for X7R 0.1uF in 0805 at
Digikey and the automotive grade (10%, -55 to +125) is cheaper than the non
automotive grade with worse tolerance and more limited temperature range.
Next time you buy it may be reversed...

On Feb 25, 2018 1:51 PM, "Gerhard Hoffmann"  wrote:

>
>
> Am 25.02.2018 um 13:46 schrieb Azelio Boriani:
>
>> The part number BFC234421475, on 
>> seems to be a Philips product, 2500 available, for 49.28 UAH
>> (Ukrainian Hryvnia, that is 1.77 USD). A mysterious capacitor...
>>
> Why not go to Mouser or DK, as usual?
>
> Or to the source itself:
> <  https://www.wima.de/en/  >
>
> (Abt. an hour of driving from where I'm now).
>
> BTW last time I bought some at DK/Mouser, there was
> a pricing artefact, in that 5% was cheaper than 10%
>
> :-)  Gerhard
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Attila Kinali]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:38:06 -0500
Don Murray via time-nuts  wrote:


> So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
> which will give me some kind of time accuracy.

I've owned several Swatch and Tissot over the past decades,
Growing up in Switzerland does that to you. :-)

I currently have a Tissot P-Touch (first generation) and
a Swatch Irony in active use. Both are accurate enough
that I only set them twice a year (DST switch) and they
are usually off by less than 10s. Which is good enough
for my needs as a wristwatch.

So I guess, go for any modern Swiss quartz watch :-)

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Bill Beam]

Even my pre civil war pocket watches should be good enough
for your needs.  Better than a minute/day.

But for some (many) time-nuts it's about wants, not needs.

My clocks and watches that can be heard across the room qualify
me as old school time nut.  (My DOB qualifies me as just plain old.)


On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 03:20:40 -0500, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote:

>Hi Bill...
>- 
>My Rolex GMT Master was stolen back in '75,
>so no luck on that. - Rolex is a bit pricey for
>my needs.
>- 
>My Seiko CQ001M, one of the first Seiko Digitals,
>was amazing. - Over the time I had it, it varied less
>than plus/minus 1 second against WWV. - I carried
>a Radio Shack Time Kube with me, when I was
>challeneged, as to the accuracy of that watch! - 
>It died many- years later, and the replacement 
>innards were- totally "loose!"
>- 
>Yes, I think that Time Kube qualifies me as a
>"Old School Time Nut! - ;-)
>- 
>TNX Bill.
>- 
>73
>Don
>W4WJ
>- 
>In a message dated 3/5/2018 1:31:04 AM Central Standard Time, wb...@gci.net 
>writes:

>- 
> My 37 year old Rolex day-date gains less than 2 sec/day compared to GPS clock.
>Rolex standard is +6/-2 sec/day.

>Regards, NL7F

>On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:38:06 -0500, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote:

>>Hello Time Nuts...


>>-n++
>>After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
>>hour of the day, flawless transfer between
>>standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
>>Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>>-n++
>>Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
>>each with some type of problem. -n++
>>-n++
>>So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
>>which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>>-n++
>>So, Time Nuts... -n++any suggestions or recommendations?
>>-n++
>>TNX
>>-n++
>>73
>>Don
>>W4WJ
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>>and follow the instructions there.



>Bill Beam
>NL7F



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Bill Beam
NL7F



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Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper...

[ewkehren via time-nuts]

BruceWisjh I had known about it a week ago and we could have added a board to 
the A9 order. Next order is probably three weeks away ifIi can help contact me 
off list     Bert Kehren
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Bruce Griffiths 
 Date: 3/4/18  8:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Hal Murray 
, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LT1016 as a pulse shaper... 
Since I have a Timepod all that I'd need would be a board that had SMA inputs 
and outputs with provision for an LC L network to  step up the input if 
necessary plus an RLC network on the output something like in the attachment.

If one doesnt have a Timepod or equivalent a low noise phase detector will 
suffice for the noisier sources. An adjustable phase shift network is required 
to achieve quadrature between the LO (driven directly from the splitter) and 
the RF input (driven by the DUT output).

The required phase shift adjustment range could perhaps be reduced by using a 
quadrature hybrid to split the test source instead of a standard splitter. The 
output of the phase detector is low pass filtered and amplified and fed to a 
high resolution ADC such as a sound card.

Bruce

> 
> On 05 March 2018 at 13:59 Hal Murray  wrote:
> 
> Bruce Griffiths  said:
> 
> > > 
> > If I had a suitable PCB board for it I would do the measurement 
> >properly.
> > 
> > > 
> What would a suitable board look like and/or what sort of gear do you 
>need to
> measure PN?
> 
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Bill S]

I wore a Casio "Atomic" watch and it set itself reliably for many years 
until very recently. They are still available.  I've replaced it with a 
Seiko Solar "Radio" watch which I understand has a better wwvb receiver 
in it. Haven't worn it yet so I'm not sure how it will perform but I've 
heard good comments.

Bill

On 3/5/2018 1:38 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote:

Hello Time Nuts...


  
After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any

hour of the day, flawless transfer between
standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
  
Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,

each with some type of problem.
  
So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,

which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
  
So, Time Nuts...  any suggestions or recommendations?
  
TNX
  
73

Don
W4WJ
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.



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Re: [time-nuts] Need a Watch Recommendation

[Don Murray via time-nuts]

Hi Bill...
 
My Rolex GMT Master was stolen back in '75,
so no luck on that.  Rolex is a bit pricey for
my needs.
 
My Seiko CQ001M, one of the first Seiko Digitals,
was amazing.  Over the time I had it, it varied less
than plus/minus 1 second against WWV.  I carried
a Radio Shack Time Kube with me, when I was
challeneged, as to the accuracy of that watch!  
It died many years later, and the replacement 
innards were totally "loose!"
 
Yes, I think that Time Kube qualifies me as a
"Old School Time Nut!  ;-)
 
TNX Bill.
 
73
Don
W4WJ
 
In a message dated 3/5/2018 1:31:04 AM Central Standard Time, wb...@gci.net 
writes:

 
 My 37 year old Rolex day-date gains less than 2 sec/day compared to GPS clock.
Rolex standard is +6/-2 sec/day.

Regards, NL7F

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 01:38:06 -0500, Don Murray via time-nuts wrote:

>Hello Time Nuts...


>-�
>After 6 years of no troubles, in sync with WWV any
>hour of the day, flawless transfer between
>standard and daylight time my Stauer Titanium
>Atomic wristwatch bite the dust a year ago.
>-�
>Since then, Stauer has sent me three replacements,
>each with some type of problem. -�
>-�
>So it looks as if I am in need of a new wristwatch,
>which will give me some kind of time accuracy.
>-�
>So, Time Nuts... -�any suggestions or recommendations?
>-�
>TNX
>-�
>73
>Don
>W4WJ
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Bill Beam
NL7F



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