Re: [time-nuts] Free Stuffs...

Burt, who was this guy?  Maybe I know him.  Was he a ham? I couldn't take all the stuff but might be interested in some of the smaller items.   Is there test equipment as well? I don't have a truck; I live in the SFV so it could be worth my time to drive over and cherry pick, if that's an

Re: [time-nuts] Recommendations for Mains Power Monitor / Logger

There isn't a whole lot of justification for measuring power line frequency.  We are all synchronized (in the first world at least) and while there are phase instabilities, it's seldom the frequency varies enough to overcome the noise. As for voltage, it's much more steady than several years

Re: [time-nuts] HP nixie counters, free!

Scott, it's a shame to trash those great counters.  I gave away two of them a while back; one is missing a decade counter so I'd be interested in replacing that.  The oven assembly is a great unit as well.  Plug-ins are nice too, especially the one that goes to 500 MHz. Those counters were

Re: [time-nuts] End of Range Oscilloquartz 8600-3

You found the secret.  There is no RF wiring to the crystal.  The oscillator frequency is determined elsewhere, with a free running multivibrator that is approximately on the right frequency.  All this talk about precision is baloney; the circuit is stable enough to fool even the experts. And

Re: [time-nuts] IEEE Spectrum - Dec 2017 - article on chip-scale atomic frequency reference

So we leave the scientific considerations and delve into the philosophical basis.  Somewhere down the line, a standard has to be established, to which all others can be compared.  How good this standard is doesn't matter, as long as it's stable.  But how does one measure stability?  Against

Re: [time-nuts] Recommendation for cheap GBIP adapter for Linux

Someone has been selling one of these at a reasonably low price on ebay but I don't know anyone who has used it. Bob On Saturday, November 18, 2017, 11:05:09 AM PST, Attila Kinali wrote: Hi, I have a need for a GBIP adapter that I can use with Linux. It shouldn't be

Re: [time-nuts] Fast Rise/Fall Time Pulser

I built one, and later saw a simpler one.  Very fast, very simple.  I think my total cost was a few cents. Google TDR DIY pulser.  One from an old magazine (Jim Williams) looks pretty good, using collector breakdown of a 2N2369.  The one I made used one IC and a few resistors. Bob On

Re: [time-nuts] Vintage Frequency Measurement

Well 5 cycles per second is more than accurate enough.  That translates to a 150 Hz error at 30 MHz, definitely negligible for the uses of all these gear.  There was no official Time Nuts group at the time, although many of us had the spirit.  Yet the capability of the BC-221 far exceeded its

Re: [time-nuts] Vintage Frequency Measurement

repeat.  It's much better than trying to null two carriers.  Even better if you use stereo headphones with the left on one radio and the right on the other. Bob       From: "jmfra...@cox.net" <jmfra...@cox.net> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nu

Re: [time-nuts] Vintage Frequency Measurement

First you need a standard, a crystal oscillator.  If you want serious precision, you'd have one in an oven.  Zero beat that with WWV.  Then make a very stable VFO and calibrate the harmonics against the crystal.  Assume linear calibration on the VFO between check points. The military LM and

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring phase with an HP 3456A?

or zero degrees must be calibrated to find the ratio and thus the sine or cosine of the phase difference. And while I never asked why we want to do this, I am reserving that question for later. Bob On Saturday, October 1, 2016 5:17 PM, Bob Stewart <b...@evoria.net> wrote: Hi Bob

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring phase with an HP 3456A?

I am having trouble following this thread.  I assume we are trying to measure phase noise, but of course the result includes the noise of the local oscillator(s).  Isn't the 3456A a voltmeter?  I have one of those.  In AC mode it has a bandwidth of more than 100 kHz and measures true rms.

Re: [time-nuts] Hobbyist grade or homebrew temperature testing chamber?

Better stock up on 60W bulbs.  They are becoming outlawed. (Only kidding, a resistor works as well.) Also, a foam drink cooler will give a more stable temperature.  You can make it leak a bit of heat to get the thermostat to cycle.  The hard part is the thermostat; they aren't cheap - even the

Re: [time-nuts] DIY VNA design

latter and it works really well to about 575MHz.  Traces can get noisy after about 575MHz.   Remember these VNAs are only as good as the calibration kit you use with them! Orin. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: I was interested in this,

Re: [time-nuts] DIY VNA design

I was interested in this, but my needs are mostly below 100 MHz.  I wonder what could be done similarly for this lower range... Bob On Saturday, August 20, 2016 8:54 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: Another great posting, Attila. When I was with Agilent, we

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info       From: Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

o find. It works so much better than lead free. -Chuck Harris Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote: > Well I have found some Chinese sources of 42 - 50 grams on ebay for around > $3.  Is > this the right stuff?  The brand is Mechanics. > > Bob

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

ground to such a fine powder that it has a huge surface area to oxidize.  As long as you keep the air off, and refrigerate the paste, it seems to go forever. Oh, and I only use tin/lead paste, not the RoHS stuff. -Chuck Harris Steve Wiseman wrote: > On 18 August 2016 at 07:07, Bob Albert via

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

Well I have found some Chinese sources of 42 - 50 grams on ebay for around $3.  Is this the right stuff?  The brand is Mechanics. Bob On Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:11 PM, Bob Albert <bob91...@yahoo.com> wrote: So where do you get this expired paste?  I have tried a few se

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

Ah Steve, that's good info!  Now where does one buy expired solder paste?  And what's the proper name for it - solder paste searches mostly come up with just flux. Bob On Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:25 AM, Steve Wiseman <sjwise...@gmail.com> wrote: On 18 August 2016 at 07:0

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts (Bob Albert)

nice fast logic and has been used in many Time-Nuts application like cheap zero-cross detectors using the AC04. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cP6w2odGUc Regards --Jim Stone Bob Albert wrote: Well I got my adapter boards from China and managed to build my first SMT project, a square wave gener

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Working with SMT parts

Well I got my adapter boards from China and managed to build my first SMT project, a square wave generator for TDR use.  And it works!  The IC seems to run hot so I used my IR temperature measurement device and it checks out at about 37C, acceptable.  I can now drive a square wave at about 3

Re: [time-nuts] Working with SMT parts.

I appreciate the advantage of stereo, which gives information as to how close the tools are to the work.  That could be important.  However, it's not necessary once you adapt to your tools. Bob On Friday, August 12, 2016 10:04 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: A fairly

Re: [time-nuts] Working with SMT parts.

model. On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: > What are the important parameters regarding purchase of a stereo microscope?  > I see some on ebay for around $50; are those good? > Bob > > >    On Thursday, August 11, 2016

Re: [time-nuts] Working with SMT parts.

What are the important parameters regarding purchase of a stereo microscope?  I see some on ebay for around $50; are those good? Bob On Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:00 AM, Didier Juges wrote: I concur. I have been using ExpressPCB extensively over the last 2 years

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

Thanks David.  I have ordered some from ebay, very cheap. 5pcs SO/SOP/SOIC/SSOP/TSSOP/MSOP14 to DIP 14 Adapter PCB Board Converter MA |   | |   | |   |   |   |   |   | | 5pcs SO/SOP/SOIC/SSOP/TSSOP/MSOP14 to DIP 14 Ad...US $1.32 New other (see details) in Business & Industrial, Electrical &

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

Yes, a board with the required footprint would be the way to go.  Where does one find that? On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 12:00 AM, David wrote: Richard mentioned the SMD to leaded adapters which work well. Another way which is more suitable for Manhattan or dead

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

ch on 14 pin smd to 14 pin dip. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Albert via time-nuts Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 8:37 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

Your comments on layout made me think again of how to implement these projects.  How do you use a 14 pin SMD IC?  I could try to connect it with flying leads but I'd like something better.  Is there some kind of socket for these devices?  Or a generic board to receive such things? Bob On

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

, the harder it is to make the  measurement, which is why I suggest finding a frequency range far from the design of the termination equipment. Your TDR should work also. Bob On Monday, August 8, 2016 1:23 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: I host a group

Re: [time-nuts] Safely getting the electrical length of a connected antenna feedline

I host a group called something like HF Antennas.  There I posted a link to an article on how to measure coaxial cable.  The easiest way is with a spectrum analyzer and a tracking generator. You connect the generator to the analyzer through a Tee that goes to the unknown coax.  You will see a

Re: [time-nuts] A little telegraph history, slightly off topic

Mitch, nice story!  I can certainly vouch for its ring of truth, as I experience the same thing on CW.  I can often identify a station by the style, speed, sound, or other characteristics.  I can tell a bug from a straight key from a keyer a lot of the time.  And we won't talk about frequency

Re: [time-nuts] Prescaler

, March 28, 2016 7:20 AM, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote: Dennis, that looks interesting but it seems to be a complete counter.  I wonder if I could cannibalize it to get the important input circuitry adapted to my counter. Maybe some info on it is available; I'l

Re: [time-nuts] Prescaler

ers-counters/hmc434.html > > Will only divide by 8, it still goes higher than your counter. The eval board > is a bit over $200. One piece of the Ic is < $12. > > Bob > > >> On Mar 27, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> >>

[time-nuts] Prescaler

Does anyone know of an inexpensive prescaler for a counter that goes beyond 2 GHz?  I would actually like to find a kit but everything seems a bit pricy.  I currently have capability of 500 MHz and that will stretch to about 700 with care.  So a divide by 10 would be ideal.

Re: [time-nuts] Aeroflex IFR 3413

I think there is an Aeroflex or IFR yahoo group.  But it doesn't see much activity. I own an IFR spectrum analyzer and would like to connect with others who have solved problems and found new uses, etc. Bob On Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:02 PM, Clint Jay wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Referenced Programmable Oscillator...

Well it seems to me to have too high a price.  It could be useful; if I had one I'd use it as a master oscillator for my HP counter.  My ham transceiver is very accurate so I don't need to improve on it. If it were around $50 I would be very interested. Bob K6DDX On Sunday, October 18,

Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz Square to Sine Wave Conversion

You can't use the square wave? You could put in a resonant circuit that will select the fundamental but other issues arise, such as phase noise and harmonic content.  How much harmonic content can you tolerate? There is a host of ways to do this job but much depends on your requirements. Bob

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

I am missing something here.  How does one use a 1 PPS signal? I see how I can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but the 1 PPS usage eludes me.  Unless the pulse is extremely sharp, a minor uncertainty in the shape or amplitude will have profound effects on the timing. I use an HP 5328A

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

So I can measure the time interval, which should be one second.  If I measure 10 intervals, my resolution would be 1 part in 10 million.  I think I can set the master oscillator closer than that with beating against WWV. So maybe buying a 1 pps source won't improve anything for me. On

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

might like. Unless you can count on the source to be stable to 10 ppm, stretching the points out to a full day apart probably is not a good idea. Lots of fun !! Bob On Jul 1, 2015, at 6:47 PM, Bob Albert via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Okay that makes some sense.  I will have

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

suspect the counter is closer. Bob On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:36 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: So I can measure the time interval, which should be one second.  If I measure 10 intervals, my resolution would be 1 part in 10 million.  I think I can set the master

Re: [time-nuts] Once again about counter calibration

Why not use a T connector to patch the 10 MHz to two places at once? Bob On Friday, April 24, 2015 5:06 PM, d0ct0r t...@patoka.org wrote: Hello, The input: HP 5386A which I would like to calibrate, Well warmed Tremble Thunderbolt (1PPS only), 10 Mhz Datum OCXO (unknown

Re: [time-nuts] HP5328A HP5328B option 040

From your comments, it seems that finding a voltmeter board to add to my 5328A isn't worth the trouble.  I have been looking for one even though I have plenty of voltmeters.  I assume the option allows measurement of the signal inputs but still probably isn't worth all the agony of changing the

Re: [time-nuts] 50 ohm Driver

5V into 50 Ohms means 100 mA.  Perhaps you need a medium power transistor amplifier or opamp. Bob On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 6:09 AM, Martyn Smith mar...@ptsyst.com wrote: Hello, A quick question. My output driver for a simple amplifier. I use three gates (in parallel with

Re: [time-nuts] tcxo

A TCXO does not keep a constant temperature.  But an OCXO does.  The TCXO compensates for the temperature effect, while the OCXO holds the temperature. Bob On Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:47 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: http://www.romanblack.com/xoven.htm Joe Gray W5JG

Re: [time-nuts] quartz clock/watch question

I have tried to pick up the oscillator from my wristwatch and have been unsuccessful. I tried both magnetic and electric probes.  Nothing. Bob On Friday, April 18, 2014 4:12 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: When a quartz watch or clock is assembled, what method is used to get it

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring the accurcy of a wrist watch

Yes, magnetic fields mess up mechanical watches.  My dad was a watchmaker and found the need to demagnetize all the watches he worked on.  The hairspring was the  most sensitive part, and the coils would stick together if magnetized, and the watch would run very fast. Bob On Thursday, April

Re: [time-nuts] Is this ocxo salvageable?

I recently discovered that the 'square' wave from the oscillator was not looking right. I thought things were awry until I terminated the coax from the oscillator to the 'scope.  Then it looked good. What probe are you using?  If you are connecting from the oscillator to the 'scope via a

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

ppb…. The other assumption above is that your existing reference is stable to much better than 10 ppb. If it’s not, then you need both a reference and a way to calibrate it. The GPSDO would give you both, since it’s got a 10 MHz OCXO built into it.  Bob On Mar 2, 2014, at 1:48 AM, Bob Albert

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

On , Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm not ready to delve into temperature measurement.  But I thought conventional wisdom is that most crystals are AT cut and an attempt at zero average coefficient is made, causing a nonlinear characteristic.  But perhaps over a limited range it's

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

To: Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: hmur...@megapathdsl.net Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question bob91...@yahoo.com said: Okay you want numbers. Well, I think 10

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

All this is very interesting.  However, my interest is frequency.  In other words, I want to know that my standard oscillators are as close to desired frequency as possible, and how close that turns out to be. Yes, the Internet gives me time of day as close as I care to know.  I have an

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

Paul, as I said I just want to know how close my crystals are and be able to adjust them as well as they can be. I probably will never go rubidium (note that I qualified that) but still somewhere one has to decide where to set the frequency. I did WWV at 20 MHz for a beat of somewhat slower

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: Paul, as I said I just want to know how close my crystals are and be able to adjust them as well as they can be. Don't say as well as can be that can get expensive and time consuming.  You need to use numbers

Re: [time-nuts] Another atomic clock question

Steve, Now that you have brought up this subject, do you know of any way to use these LaCrosse clocks to calibrate frequency standards?  It seems to me that since we can buy a cheap device that receives and decodes the WWVB signal, it shouldn't be a big step to use it as a basis for frequency

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: I would love to discipline my counter and signal generator time bases to match NIST.  Is this possible, and what would I need to do? I am sure this subject has been covered but I don't know how to find it. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

for amateur radio purposes pretty much any of the solutions are very good. Regards Paul. On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: I looked on line and it seems that these receivers are available for about $150 and up.  A little out of my price range right now but I'll

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

. It's all in fun; I have no legitimate need for this accuracy. Bob On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:26 AM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: I looked on line and it seems that these receivers are available

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

Oops yes I goofed, it's 500 MHz.  500 GHz is beyond state of the art I would think. So GPS satellites are NIST in miniature it seems.  That's a lot of payload but now I have to see how to gain access to it. Bob On Friday, February 21, 2014 11:17 AM, Florian Teply use...@teply.info wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for WWVB digital wall clock with digital 24 hour UTC display

What about converting an 'atomic clock' for this purpose? Bob On Friday, February 21, 2014 4:22 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: Of course the products I referred to don't actually run ntpd and they're

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

My TS-940S acts as though it receives okay at 60 kHz.  Not great sensitivity but it does receive. Most HP GPS receivers are expensive ($400?).  I was hoping to get some results with what I have, although I'm willing to cobble up some circuitry. I assume if I can receive the signal, I can

Re: [time-nuts] New WWVB modulation format receivers (NOT)

I am wondering if it's a tough road to get precise time and frequency. I have a Kenwood TS-940S transceiver that can receive 60 kHz but I have never heard anything I could guess would be WWVB, just a fair amount of noise.  I did calibrate against 20 MHz WWV so that the beat was one every

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring 1 PPS with an HP 5335A

Check AC/DC coupling at the input.  Make sure you are within the linear range of input level.  Look carefully at the signal to see if perhaps there are glitches. Measure other signals to determine if it's a counter problem or something not noticed in the 1 pps signal. Bob On Sunday,

Re: [time-nuts] WWV/WWVH audio simulator?

Jayson, I chuckle because WWV is my favorite radio station also. Why not tune it in on a good day and record the audio?  Then you can digitize it on the computer and have a .WAV file which you can play any time. Trouble is, if you have recorded the announcements, you won't have the correct

Re: [time-nuts] WWV Simulator Programs

Basically you just need an amplifier centered on 60 kHz. On Friday, January 3, 2014 10:42 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com wrote: I'd like to see a WWVB generator that could output the 60 KHz WWVB signal through a sound card for the benefit of hard of hearing atomic clocks by Oregon

Re: [time-nuts] Need to measure frequencies of two sources simultaneously

If the two frequencies are near one another you can measure the difference frequency, which may or may not be helpful. I know of no counter that can count two signals; that would require two registers.  Use two counters with synchronized time bases. Bob On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9:15

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line - WWV

it to the time tick on the radio. Compared over a time span of days you can improve your accuracy. Bob On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: This is off topic but I'm unsure how to do it properly. I am trying to 'discipline' a couple of sources.  I zero beat with 20

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line - WWV

improve your accuracy. Bob On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: This is off topic but I'm unsure how to do it properly. I am trying to 'discipline' a couple of sources.  I zero beat with 20 MHz WWV but can't tell the difference between fading and the beat, so I

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line - WWV

improve your accuracy. Bob On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: This is off topic but I'm unsure how to do it properly. I am trying to 'discipline' a couple of sources.  I zero beat with 20 MHz WWV but can't tell the difference between fading and the beat, so I

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line - WWV

path as possible between you and the transmitter. Bob On Sep 27, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: Ah that time tick idea makes sense.  Now I just have to figure out how to generate it from my time base.  And of course, since I don't want to stay awake for several

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line - WWV

a few days you can have some pretty good information. Bob On Sep 27, 2013, at 4:26 PM, Bob Albert bob91...@yahoo.com wrote: I just did what I consider to be the best calibration possible without getting more equipment.  I adjusted my generator to be within 0.25 Hz of 15 MHz WWV.  Then I

Re: [time-nuts] Shielding a DAC line

This is off topic but I'm unsure how to do it properly. I am trying to 'discipline' a couple of sources.  I zero beat with 20 MHz WWV but can't tell the difference between fading and the beat, so I am stuck in the vicinity of 1 Hz possible error.  That's 50 ppb I think. What can I do to take