[time-nuts] Spectracom Netclock 2 (cannot enter date time manually)

[D. Resor]

I know this should be as simple as reading the manual however...

 

I am using Tera Term with a PC laptop connected from serial port to serial
port:

 

VT100

9600 Baud

Data: 8 bit

Parity: None

Stop: 1 bit

Flow control: none

 

 

The cable is a DB9 to DB9 "Straight Through" Serial Cable of 6.6 ft length
(New pre-made cable).

 

Dip Switch 4 which allows manual setting of the Netclock 2 is enabled (on).

 

It updates the Tera Term window every second in Format 1 (which is the same
as the rotary switch setting) with its current Day, Date, Month, Year as if
the (T)ime command is being issued again and again.

 

It ignores any and all commands found in the manual.

 

I'm at a loss.

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

 

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[time-nuts] QRZed.... OT: 16 Khz VLF, Rugby, England

[D. Resor]

I am sure some have seen this, however.

16 Khz VLF, Rugby, England

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unlg2gY2Zrs

 

 

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

 

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Re: [time-nuts] Ultralink WWVB receiver manuals?

[D. Resor]

It appears that UTSource has the U4226B in stock under several manufacturers, 
including Atmel.

https://www.utsource.net/sch/U4226B


Donald Resor
N6KAW



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 4:12 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Ultralink WWVB receiver manuals?

Thanks to another list memo, I got the basic manual.  Got it fired up and while 
it does things, I think there's a problem.  The S Meter is pinned all the way 
over to the right (very, very strong signal) and stays there no matter how I 
shield the antenna.  And I never see any decoded bits.  I hope the receiver 
chip (U4226B, unobtanium except from
China) isn't shot.  

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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Antenna revisited/Spectracom 8182

[D. Resor]

I remember being told about this years ago, but it had not registered in my 
mind recently that it was the format which had changed.  For some reason I 
thought it was the transmission frequency.

I'm a little baffled though, I purchased both of my SkyScan clocks, prior to 
these changes.  Yet they both still set themselves (when propagation allows) 
correctly.   One would think inexpensive products would be sacrificed verses 
the more expensive equipment.

What are example(s) of the "gizmo" which will convert the new format to the old 
one?

I realized later after reading more about the antenna I am looking at that it 
has a DC blocking capacitor built in, therefore it should be fine.  This is 
what happens when I spend too much time during the wee hours of the 
night/morning with a mind which becomes even more cloudy.

Thanks

Donald Resor
N6KAW



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Bob kb8tq
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 8:13 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Antenna revisited/Spectracom 8182

Hi

You should DC block the output of the 8182 if you are going to run it straight 
to an antenna. 

The bigger issue is that WWVB changed their transmit format a couple years ago. 
The signal they now send is not compatible with a lot of gear out there. 
It turns out that the 8182 is included on that list:

https://spectracom.com/support/retired-products/netclock?field_product_availability_ref_tid=94
 


There are gizmos you can build to convert the new transmit format to the old 
one, I’m not sure if you are interested in going to that extreme. 

Bob



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[time-nuts] WWVB Antenna revisited/Spectracom 8182

[D. Resor]

I've been reading and researching what I will need to connect a Spectracom
8182 Netclock/2 for use here at home as a WWV(B) clock.

 

I found a post response from Feb 23, 2005 by Brian Kirby which includes the
a link for a preamplifier schematic here:

 

 

http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20050223/94b9bd2c/attach
ment-0008.pdf 

 

According to all information I have been able to gather, in California I
really don't a preamplifier.   However the Spectracom 8182 manual discusses
the use of a preamplifier (8207) with their antenna as "part of the system".


 

My train of thought is, the 8182 superimposes 10.7vdc on the antenna BNC for
powering the inline preamplifier.  If I do not use the preamplifier will
this DC voltage create problems and attenuate the RF signal? Will the
comparator circuit in the 8182 show the antenna to be open and therefore not
operate correctly?  Would a decoupling network to prevent the DC voltage
from reaching the antenna create the same problem?

 

Lastly I see in the preamplifier schematic DC power is used to power the
transistors (+9 input) and how 60Khz is 80 mV P-P amplified signal is shown
as an output signal (near Q4).  I must be missing something as it doesn't
show how the RF signal coupled back to the input, unless of course C8 (the
1.0uf capacitor) is how it is coupled back.

 

There are several jumpers within the 8182 but the manual does not seem
discuss these. The datasheet for the 8165 disciplined oscillator discusses
on Page 5 about the "Switch A1S1" which will appears to enable/disable the
DC preamplifier voltage.

 

https://www.atecorp.com/ATECorp/media/pdfs/data-sheets/Spectracom-8206_Manua
l.pdf

 

Thanks

 

Donald Resor

N6KAW

 

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[time-nuts] Time Nut toys....

[D. Resor]

Here are a few WVVB items, I found while looking over YT which I found
interesting and even drool worthy.

 

MSF Radio Clock Data Monitor start-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfeSe6PDbU

 

DCF77 Analyzer / Clock v.2 demo

https://youtu.be/ZadSU_DT-Ks

 

WWVB Atomic Clock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtphmPt2g3M

 

Seems two of the three are one-offs with no documentation as to how to build
them.

 

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

 

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

The unit has an external switching power supply which provides 5+ VDC.  In 
addition there is a 24VAC transformer which provides the power for the bell 
solenoids.  This where the AC reference is "sampled"  I cannot completely cut 
out the AC transformer as it is essential to other operations of the DCBI.

A lot to study.


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:02 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald,

Possible solutions to your 60 Hz mains problem:

1) If you don't want to open or hack the clock controller in any way consider 
using a "online" UPS. Typically the synthesized 60 Hz AC output is quartz 
controlled.

2) Make your own low-power 60 Hz AC/DC/AC power supply -- using a quartz, or 
ovenized quartz, or GPSDO or NTP-based timebase. How many watts do you need? 
How many seconds per week is your limit?

3) Open the clock controller and locate the wire that gets the 60 Hz timing; 
probably from a low voltage winding of the transformer. Then cut the wire and 
feed your own precise digital 60 Hz instead.

4) You mentioned "the 60Hz reference can be switched out". In that case what is 
the time source? What frequency? Based on a cheap quartz xtal? If so, perhaps 
it's easier to replace that instead of messing with 60 Hz.

> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be 
> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net 
> server or possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

Can you be more specific about this requirement? Generating a precise 60 Hz is 
a different problem from knowing what the current local date / time is.

/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "D. Resor" <organli...@pacbell.net>
To: "Time Nuts List" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:30 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
> source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.
> 
> 
> 
> The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the
> requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
> controller.  
> 
> Seen here:
> http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
> jpg
> 
> 
> 
> The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
> here:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
> using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.
> 
> 
> 
> This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is,
> this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
> sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz
> line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
> seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.
> 
> 
> 
> The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
> that setting isn't much better.
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
> possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.
> 
> 
> 
> Does such a thing exist?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
> 
> http://hammondorganservice.com
> Hammond USA warranty service
> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
> don't." --Jonathan Winters
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

I have been soldering since I was in high-school (circa 1970s) and before that.

I have two additional Maas-Rowe Controllers here at home I can work with. 
However I do not want destroy them to the point of no return as finding used 
units relatively good condition is becoming more difficult.  Some of the 
integrated circuits are a bit difficult to come by also.


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of numbers of 
answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are with a 
soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched the 
web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no 
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a squaring 
circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60 Hz 
out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to get 
the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

I am sure there are master circuit diagrams of the DCB1 but I've never seen 
them during my visits to the factory.  It was explained to me, there are no 
printed service manuals for the digital product line.

If I have questions the engineer or the owner can answer them.  Which I may 
also need to do.   I do know there was work done for an accessory attachable to 
the DCBIII with the addition of a WWVB receiver or GPS, (which is an expanded 
version of the DCBI) I cannot remember of the two technologies it was.

I do know that the clock is a OKI m5832, and I have looked at the datasheet 
which explains how the ±30 second pin on the IC is "adjust" on Pin 15, however 
I do not know how the 60Hz is used to trigger it.  

I have uploaded images of the PC boards both component and solder side here in 
a win zipped file folder here:

http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/MRdcb1boards.zip


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> On Behalf Of Thomas Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 2:50 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Can you supply any schematics, good images of the electronics? We may be able 
to suss out how they do the internal reference. 

I am thinking that since it has a 2.4 volt NiCd battery backup that it used 
some sort of 32,768 quartz oscillator for time keeping. It may also have some 
adjustment you can do to improve the accuracy.

There are xtal controlled 60 Hz inverters that might provide a better frequency 
reference. Even some UPS systems that run all the time could be explored.


 Good luck. 

 

 

-----Original Message-
From: D. Resor <organli...@pacbell.net>
To: Time Nuts List <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 4, 2018 2:45 pm
Subject: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Hello,

 

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a 
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

 

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the 
requirements.

 

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock controller. 
 

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

 

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

 

 

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections 
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

 

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is, 
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in 
sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz line 
frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30 seconds and/or 
more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

 

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however that 
setting isn't much better.

 

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be 
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or 
possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

 

Does such a thing exist?

 

Thank You

 

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don't." 
--Jonathan Winters

 

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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

Adrian Goodwin,

Working in reverse here 

Maas-Rowe has been in business since 1922.  The son of the founder of the 
company, Paul Rowe currently president of the company is his golden years.  

The DCB1 which was Maas-Rowe's first generation of a digital controller in 
around 1983 has Westminster chimes, bell tolls for churches, colleges and 
universities.  For instance, Angelus, De Profundis, Change Ringing (Bell 
Peals), Swinging Bell etc.  There were two other generations of this product 
which followed.  The DCBII and DCBIII.  All three units use an external bell 
chime unit with chromatically tuned bell rods with the additional partials 
needed ground into them.

Here is the external Bell Unit which can connect to a DCBI, DCBII or DCBIII. 
The Bell unit contains 15 bell rods, and they are divided up into the Low C 
chord of 3-bells. The rest are divided up into groups of 2-bells.

Maas-Rowe carillon: Close-up of the chimes inside the California Tower at 
Balboa Park in San Diego

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TnjL_nVz0

The DCBI used 8-track cartridge tapes for the musical selections.  The DCBII 
(discontinued) and DCB3 use a 7 or 25 disc Compact Disk Mechanism for the 
musical selections.  

Maas-Rowe Digital Chronobell demo at First UMC, Benton, Arkansas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV5fZhTbfoM

Six years ago Maas-Rowe Developed a Digital Sequencer unit which contains up to 
25 "Libraries" of musical selections. It also contains the 7 bell voices which 
Maas-Rowe patented played in "real time" from digital samples.

Seen here:

Digital Carillon Player (DCP) Introduction  (Attached to a DCBIII).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUM062-eCoM

In addition Maas-Rowe has manufactured for several decades what is referred to 
as the Grand Symphonic Carillon.  It allows you to play from a keyboard 
console, and it also can contain their MPR1 and MPR2 unit which has musical 
selection storage and a sequencer.

A sample of The Grand Symphonic Carillon can be seen here:

Game of Thrones Theme - Balboa Park Carillon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAiKcL7yGc0

Here is another demonstration of The Grand Symphonic Carillon

Carillon Bells ASU MCC collaboration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZoMDxPpGyI

The latest model is the Bell Whether Carillon 

Maas-Rowe Carillons Bellwether
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DDehZRR3ks

Sorry you asked? 


Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don’t have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they don’t." 
--Jonathan Winters






-Original Message-
From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of Adrian Godwin
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2018 3:25 PM
To: Tom Van Baak ; Discussion of precise time and 
frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

Donald,

I'm interested to hear more about the Maas-Rowe controller. I presume something 
that plays a fixed peal on the chimes ?

I found another You-tube video where someone was describing a set of chimes, 
but it had a tube amplifier and a small manual keyboard. He didn't describe any 
sort of automatic player, and from the age of the system I would imagine it 
would have been semi-mechanical, like a player piano.


How does the controller you  are restoring operate ?



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[time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[D. Resor]

Hello,

 

My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching a
source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.

 

The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the
requirements.

 

What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
controller.  

Seen here:
http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/TempleCitySDADCB1a.
jpg

 

The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0

 

 

It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.

 

This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is,
this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz
line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it synchronized.

 

The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
that setting isn't much better.

 

I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.

 

Does such a thing exist?

 

Thank You

 

 

Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.

http://hammondorganservice.com
Hammond USA warranty service
"Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
don't." --Jonathan Winters

 

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