Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of shali...@gmail.com [shali...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 5:34 PM To: Time-Nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues Because a real regulator costs more than 3 diodes and when you already have a 5V regulator, the 3 diodes work fine. Didier Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:56:47 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the saga continues I've heard this discussed a few times, and the idea of using diodes to regulate this way makes me very queasy. Why would a real 3.3V regulator not be used? If the new chip requires 3.3 vdc and there aren't 3 diodes on the board to drop the 5 vdc down, this will be a problem. The old board had 3 zero ohm resistors in place of the diodes and this is why some of the boards failed. As I had posted previously, I used a red LED as a 1.7-1.8 volt zener to drop the 5 volts down to the proper value. The LED went in place of the 3 regular diodes. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
You forget that this Fluke.L guy's first design replaced three diodes with wire jumpers to save the cost of three diodes. The builder is cheap beyond all reason. To a guy who'd replace diodes with wire $0.78 must seem like a fortune. I'd use a 3.3 volt reg also but in China 78 cents is what? Half a day's pay? On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:48 AM, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
It is between four and five Yuan. Four Yuan at the local market will buy what four dollars will buy in the US (as long as you are not buying imported goods). jcc On 7/7/11 11:06 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: You forget that this Fluke.L guy's first design replaced three diodes with wire jumpers to save the cost of three diodes. The builder is cheap beyond all reason. To a guy who'd replace diodes with wire $0.78 must seem like a fortune. I'd use a 3.3 volt reg also but in China 78 cents is what? Half a day's pay? On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:48 AM, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
But surely it doesn't matter David? There is nothing critical in there, it's just a display. As long as the voltage is within the processor's operating window, that is surely good enough? Peter On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
There are levels of it works... Level 1 is I built one and it works. Level 2 is I built one like yours and it works. Level 3 is I built a bunch and they all work. Level 4 is I built a million and they all work. Level five adds environmental issues, EMI and ESD. I usually work at level 5. With that diode scheme I would expect a bunch of current-driven ripple in VCC, which could cause various amounts of flakiness. Hard to say without data sheets and a scope, but that's really the point. A solid analog regulator would be a slam-dunk level 4 solution. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Vince [pvi...@theiet.org] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues But surely it doesn't matter David? There is nothing critical in there, it's just a display. As long as the voltage is within the processor's operating window, that is surely good enough? Peter On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . .the sagacontinues
So David, Does that mean you are going to layout a proper new board for all of us ? As I am sure you are aware, the original procesor does not appear to be available so that would mean a new design using a current or cutting edge cpu version. Of course the new unit would have to be as cheap as the current one. While your at it, I would like a bigger display (4 lines min) that is back-lit. Also, as you rewrite the software, I would, in addition, like all the capabilities of the Tboltmon.exe program included. Being a Timenut, I would expect nothing but the best, so level 5 will do it. Thank you, BillWB6BNQ David VanHorn wrote: There are levels of it works... Level 1 is I built one and it works. Level 2 is I built one like yours and it works. Level 3 is I built a bunch and they all work. Level 4 is I built a million and they all work. Level five adds environmental issues, EMI and ESD. I usually work at level 5. With that diode scheme I would expect a bunch of current-driven ripple in VCC, which could cause various amounts of flakiness. Hard to say without data sheets and a scope, but that's really the point. A solid analog regulator would be a slam-dunk level 4 solution. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Vince [pvi...@theiet.org] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues But surely it doesn't matter David? There is nothing critical in there, it's just a display. As long as the voltage is within the processor's operating window, that is surely good enough? Peter On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . .the sagacontinues
I did pretty well for the HamHud community when I did the HHII board in about 48 hours to get it out in time for Dayton. I might be much more tempted to put a Bluetooth interface on the Tbolt and do the display as a Droid app. There are many ways to go, but for something like this. I wouldn't be happy with less than a level 3 design. This one seems to be somewhere between levels 1 and 2. What's your hobby time worth to you? I don't get much so I value it roughly similar to my work time, so I don't cheap out my hobby designs in ways that are likely to cost me debugging time. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of WB6BNQ [wb6...@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:58 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . ..the sagacontinues So David, Does that mean you are going to layout a proper new board for all of us ? As I am sure you are aware, the original procesor does not appear to be available so that would mean a new design using a current or cutting edge cpu version. Of course the new unit would have to be as cheap as the current one. While your at it, I would like a bigger display (4 lines min) that is back-lit. Also, as you rewrite the software, I would, in addition, like all the capabilities of the Tboltmon.exe program included. Being a Timenut, I would expect nothing but the best, so level 5 will do it. Thank you, BillWB6BNQ David VanHorn wrote: There are levels of it works... Level 1 is I built one and it works. Level 2 is I built one like yours and it works. Level 3 is I built a bunch and they all work. Level 4 is I built a million and they all work. Level five adds environmental issues, EMI and ESD. I usually work at level 5. With that diode scheme I would expect a bunch of current-driven ripple in VCC, which could cause various amounts of flakiness. Hard to say without data sheets and a scope, but that's really the point. A solid analog regulator would be a slam-dunk level 4 solution. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Vince [pvi...@theiet.org] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues But surely it doesn't matter David? There is nothing critical in there, it's just a display. As long as the voltage is within the processor's operating window, that is surely good enough? Peter On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt .. .the sagacontinues
David, I think you completely missed my point ! Too be honest, I was poking fun at your rather STIFF rebuke. The display concept was a project that a list member did for himself and then told the list membership about it. Fluke.L stole the idea lock, stock and barrel including the software as a pattern. The intent was to do some simple monitoring of the Tbolt without having to tie up a computer, such as a laptop, for such a simple job. The original item used was a USB stick product from Silabs (I think) interfaced to a LCD. Now you know the rest of the story ! BillWB6BNQ David VanHorn wrote: I did pretty well for the HamHud community when I did the HHII board in about 48 hours to get it out in time for Dayton. I might be much more tempted to put a Bluetooth interface on the Tbolt and do the display as a Droid app. There are many ways to go, but for something like this. I wouldn't be happy with less than a level 3 design. This one seems to be somewhere between levels 1 and 2. What's your hobby time worth to you? I don't get much so I value it roughly similar to my work time, so I don't cheap out my hobby designs in ways that are likely to cost me debugging time. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of WB6BNQ [wb6...@cox.net] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:58 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . ..the sagacontinues So David, Does that mean you are going to layout a proper new board for all of us ? As I am sure you are aware, the original procesor does not appear to be available so that would mean a new design using a current or cutting edge cpu version. Of course the new unit would have to be as cheap as the current one. While your at it, I would like a bigger display (4 lines min) that is back-lit. Also, as you rewrite the software, I would, in addition, like all the capabilities of the Tboltmon.exe program included. Being a Timenut, I would expect nothing but the best, so level 5 will do it. Thank you, BillWB6BNQ David VanHorn wrote: There are levels of it works... Level 1 is I built one and it works. Level 2 is I built one like yours and it works. Level 3 is I built a bunch and they all work. Level 4 is I built a million and they all work. Level five adds environmental issues, EMI and ESD. I usually work at level 5. With that diode scheme I would expect a bunch of current-driven ripple in VCC, which could cause various amounts of flakiness. Hard to say without data sheets and a scope, but that's really the point. A solid analog regulator would be a slam-dunk level 4 solution. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Peter Vince [pvi...@theiet.org] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:00 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues But surely it doesn't matter David? There is nothing critical in there, it's just a display. As long as the voltage is within the processor's operating window, that is surely good enough? Peter On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature. The processor alone is a very dynamic load. I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for a professional design. Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at Digikley, in singles. L78L33ABZ-AP If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues
Because a real regulator costs more than 3 diodes and when you already have a 5V regulator, the 3 diodes work fine. Didier Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:56:47 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the saga continues I've heard this discussed a few times, and the idea of using diodes to regulate this way makes me very queasy. Why would a real 3.3V regulator not be used? If the new chip requires 3.3 vdc and there aren't 3 diodes on the board to drop the 5 vdc down, this will be a problem. The old board had 3 zero ohm resistors in place of the diodes and this is why some of the boards failed. As I had posted previously, I used a red LED as a 1.7-1.8 volt zener to drop the 5 volts down to the proper value. The LED went in place of the 3 regular diodes. -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
