Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

I'm kind of late to the party on this one, and don't want to reopen and send it off on a tangent. I agree with the injection-lock method, but just want to suggest that since most uPs and uCs have their own CMOS oscillator built in, the simplest solution would be to just use that as intended,

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Ed you are late to the dance. But do offer an additional piece of the puzzle. RCD I will guess is a RC differentiator. And your suggestion does get rid of a separate oscillator. It wasn't my post. But would guess you just jam the diff pulse into the osc amp in that the xtal feeds? Regards Paul

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Actually, I was referring to an RC and Diode network in anticipation of the possible need for more signal shaping flexibility, depending on the signals and circuitry. The built-in oscillators are usually self-biased CMOS inverters intended to go with crystals, and usually a couple of small

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for the suggestions and interesting discussion. What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Don't leave us in suspense :-) What method did you decide to use? Joe Gray W5JG On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for the suggestions and interesting discussion. What's the

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

On 1/4/2013 4:48 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi As I recall the spec was: 1) Cheap 2) no phase slips on the 16 MHz relative to 10 MHz 3) Cheap Bob GAK! Here is the original from TVB What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them. Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90 but they apparently either

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Chris Albertson wrote: My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do crystal filters clean up the signal. It seems that after several 16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO. For offsets out to 100 Hz or so, using a crystal filter will cause

[time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

If you divide by 5 the phase noise sideband amplitude (voltage) will be divided by 5. That is a reduction of 14db for all phase noise sideband frequencies . Then when you multiply that by 8 you will add the phase noise sidebands will be multiplied by 8 or 3x6db or 18 db. So the end result

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

On 1/4/13 10:25 AM, Rick Karlquist wrote: Chris Albertson wrote: My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do crystal filters clean up the signal. It seems that after several 16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO. For offsets out to 100 Hz

[time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

At 07:51 PM 1/4/2013 +, you wrote: My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do crystal filters clean up the signal. It seems that after several 16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO. For offsets out to 100 Hz or so, using a crystal

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

How about getting back to basics. Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification requirements? Otherwise on this list it can go on for a year. Bert Kehren In a message dated 1/4/2013 6:11:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wlfuq...@uky.edu writes: At 07:51 PM 1/4/2013

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Hi As I recall the spec was: 1) Cheap 2) no phase slips on the 16 MHz relative to 10 MHz 3) Cheap Bob On Jan 4, 2013, at 7:18 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: How about getting back to basics. Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification requirements? Otherwise on

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

I think the thread branched and as I recall started something like this. Someone needed a Simple 16 Mhz for a uproc made from a 10 Mhz source. Two reasonable answers were given. Injection locked oscillator Typical div and mult/filter. A third and kind of interesting for me a Ti chip soic digital

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

HI Ok, it's TimeNuts, we need numbers… Say no phase slips is 0.1 UI on the 16 MHz. That would be a jitter number of 6.25 ns RMS. Bob On Jan 4, 2013, at 7:18 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: How about getting back to basics. Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

to get complicated. Simon Message: 2 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:19:16 -0800 From: WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement     time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier Message-ID

[time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

One way is to divide by 10 and then multiply by 16. Divide by 10 and then follow by 4 tuned frequency doublers. This should introduce little phase noise. Another way to do it is to divide by 10, then pass the output thru a narrow 16 MHz filter and amplify. Sounds difficult but the filter

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that have been mentioned. None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or even the Chinese. Also data-sheets are not to be found. Thanks On 4/01/2013 5:13 AM, Bill Fuqua wrote: One way is to divide by

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Am 04.01.2013 01:59, schrieb Max: Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that have been mentioned. None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or even the Chinese. Also data-sheets are not to be found. you can't find 'em because they're not

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them. Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90 but they apparently either never went into production or very few were produced. The closest non-TTL

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them. Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90 but they apparently either never went into production or very few were

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

: David davidwh...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490 made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them. Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90

[time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

At 12:58 AM 1/4/2013 +, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that have been mentioned. None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or even the Chinese. Also data-sheets are not to be found. Thanks This

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

On 1/3/2013 6:22 PM, David wrote: Alternatively if you just want to divide by 5 or some other small fixed number, you can use a couple of flip-flips and gates. Flip-flips are good for digitally implementing tick-tick clocks, right? :-) (Use flop-flops for tock-tock.)

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

tmil...@skylinenet.net said: Isn't there a fast divide by N counter that you could set to 10? Maybe even in ECL? The 74xx16y are 4 bit loadable counters. 2 are binary, 2 are decimal. I think 1 of each pair has a synchronous reset/clear, the other is async. Mouser has the 74AC161 and 74AC163

[time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must. The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Tom. OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref. Thats pretty easy as they say. As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires BPF but pretty easy also. Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a 16 Mhz osc.

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Since injection locking is possible when the ratio of the 2 frequencies involved is a rational number, a 16 MHz oscillator can be directly injection locked to a 10MHz signal without the need for dividers etc. Bruce paul swed wrote: Tom. OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks. Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually doesn't matter) maybe 2-5pf cap and 300 ohm R to ground. Feed this into a transistor that is in the bottom end of a one transistor oscillator. There are actually several ways to inject. Think of a

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Hi I think I'd second the thought of join with an ARM or something like it that will be happy with 10 MHz in. Next choice would be a PIC24 / dsPIC33 that's also happy with 10 MHz in. The money you will pay for the clock conversion chip(s) will go a long way spent on a CPU. Bob On Jan 2,

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? Well, it's a few dollars and *is* a TSSOP, but I've been playing with TI's CDCE913/925/937/949 series. They're nice little I2C-programmable fractional-N PLL chips. You can either program them in software, or save the config to on-board

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

I looked at the TI chip that really seems simple. On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann dk...@arcor.de wrote: Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

I wrote: The on-board VCXO range is 80 to 230 MHz, so I'd multiply the 10 MHz up to 160 MHz and then divide by 10. In case it's not obvious, I meant to write the on-chip VCO. Obviously it's *not* a crystal oscillator; I just failed to supervise my typing fingers carefully enough.

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

The optimum width of the injection pulse is equal to 1/2 the period of the output frequency of the injection locked oscillator. In this case a pulse width of around 31.25ns Bruce paul swed wrote: Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks. Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Tom, This may not be the answer you are looking for, but the simplest way may be to use a uC that has a PLL for clock generation. Didier On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

shali...@gmail.com To: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier Message-ID: CAMQqFu=ghst14ygddgw8pvjrnmnryyfne13g06p+qrmv48a...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

How about simply using a 16MHz GPSDO? We have shipped FireFly-1A units with 16MHz Ocxo.. Those can also generate 16MHz out of a 1PPS reference. Bye, Said Sent From iPhone On Jan 2, 2013, at 12:58, Gerhard Hoffmann dk...@arcor.de wrote: Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak: What's the

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

Tom For simple, cheap, low performance and fast to build with junk box parts, hard to beat: What I made long ago for myself (before time-nut days). I still use it today for low end stuff, and it is all done with standard 74HC DIP parts. The main IC is a 74HCT4046 Phase lock loop with

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz - 16 MHz clock multiplier

On 02/01/13 19:54, Tom Van Baak wrote: What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase coherence is a must.