of surprises.
73,
Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul swed
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
Did measure NAA near Boston 8000uv using a dipole for 80 meters.
Looking at various vlf receivers it looks like
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
Did measure NAA near Boston 8000uv using a dipole for 80 meters.
Looking at various vlf receivers it looks like a LPF or maybe a BPF filter
to a ne602 mixer followed by a tl081opamp LPF makes a direct
Did measure NAA near Boston 8000uv using a dipole for 80 meters.
Looking at various vlf receivers it looks like a LPF or maybe a BPF filter
to a ne602 mixer followed by a tl081opamp LPF makes a direct conversion
receiver. Then hit the tracor d-msk-r.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at
frequency be
lowered for the higher modulation rate?
Bob LaJeunesse
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 at 2:56 PM
From: Kenneth G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul
G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul swed wrote:
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent
Paul wrote:
Nat Semi App Note 72 page 18, par. 6.4 shows the configuration for
bandpass active filter. This matches the last LM3900 stage, so you
would seem to be correct. The shift in filter frequency for 200bps
is because the higher modulation rate results in a greater frequency
shift.
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:20:34 -0700
From: Kenneth G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
Message-ID: 53ef84d2.25672.cd9f...@kgordon2006.frontier.com
Content-Type: text
Gang,
Just for fun I just tried to see if I could hear the signal on 24 kHz
using my GPS referenced HP-3586B and a HP-3336A also GPS locked to
compare the I.F. frequency using a 1:1 Lissajou pattern. It's 7:30
AM here in Los Angeles. I heard a signal but I doubt that it was
NAA. What time
On 17 Aug 2014 at 7:52, Burt I. Weiner wrote:
Gang,
Just for fun I just tried to see if I could hear the signal on 24 kHz
using my GPS referenced HP-3586B and a HP-3336A also GPS locked to
compare the I.F. frequency using a 1:1 Lissajou pattern. It's 7:30
AM here in Los Angeles. I
Hi
If you are going with an NAA receiver for frequency and time, I would not strip
off the modulation. Recover it, time tag it once a second and work out a way to
compare sequences between observers. If they are (still) transmitting random
looking “stuff” the one second signatures should be
Here are the received signal strengths at Caddyshack.
The N-S loop is one loop about 5 by 20 feet.
The E-W loop is 5 - 10 turns 5 by 15 feet or so.
--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX c...@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc
OK
Couple of comments
NAA is 24KHz
Jim Creek is 24.8 as I recall. Anyhow westies might want Jim Creek in Wa.
I can here both on the east coast day or night with nothing spectacular at
all.
That said I shared the tracor d-msk-r circuit with the group that removes
the msk. How does it pull that
On 8/17/2014 12:30 PM, paul swed wrote:
OK
That said I shared the tracor d-msk-r circuit with the group that removes
the msk. How does it pull that trick off? I do not get how it gets rid of
the msk and leaves the carrier.
A common way to remove BPSK is to simply run the signal
through a
: Kenneth G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul swed wrote:
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent
G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul swed wrote:
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent
frequency be lowered for the higher
modulation rate?
Bob LaJeunesse
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 at 2:56 PM
From: Kenneth G. Gordon kgordon2...@frontier.com
To: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
Cc: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35
] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul swed wrote:
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent the top
half of
the input cycle.
Yes, I saw those, but unless I am mistaken, you didn't add a U after
the
second opamp
Hi
You have a Cs to work with *plus* the pollution that comes from propagation and
what ever is going on with your antenna and their antenna. Since you are
dealing with phase to get anything useful, a swing in their (100 Hz wide)
antenna could give you a pretty significant phase change when
Alex I have several of these and they worked well. The new BPSK modulation
does not allow any of the traditional phase tracking receivers to work.
Paul/Ziggy mentioned NAA as an alternate. Granted its not NIST traceable
thats not its function. But as it turns out the things I thought made the
Ken
At least last night NAA was running just fine using a fluke 207 and 4 ft of
wire.
The antenna is behind a metal rack that shields it in NAAs direction. I did
that test out of curiosity.
Granted its 2 MW but then again the antenna is at best 50% efficient.
Who knows maybe they have sections of
Hi
I would be *very* surprised if the NAA antenna was 50% efficient (transmitter
RF to radiated power)…..
Given that it’s already up and running with good signal levels, that’s not a
big deal.
Bob
On Aug 16, 2014, at 10:24 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Ken
At least last night
Bob
The fact is its on the web. :-)
I was surprised that the documents said that also given most LF Ham systems
are very inefficient given what we have to work with in $ and space. But
then again its no an amateur installation. With 16 X 825 ft towers and
miles of wire over salt flats and water.
On 16 Aug 2014 at 11:33, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
I would be *very* surprised if the NAA antenna was 50% efficient (transmitter
RF
to radiated power).
According to this:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/145116437/THE-BIGGEST-LITTLE-ANTENNA-IN
-THE-WORLD-US-Navy-s-VLF-antenna-at-Cutler-Maine
The
On 16 Aug 2014 at 12:48, paul swed wrote:
As a test this morning I connected the fluke 207 vlf radio that has a 1.1KHz
IF
out to a XY scope using a very stable 1.1 Khz synth function gen. Indeed the
msk
is a classic 4 corner eye pattern.
Kewel.
Also I looked at the tracor 900 de-MSK-r
On 16 Aug 2014 at 10:24, paul swed wrote:
Ken
At least last night NAA was running just fine using a fluke 207 and 4 ft of
wire. The antenna is behind a metal rack that shields it in NAAs direction.
Ha! At VLF you could probably bury your antenna in a grounded, steel pipe 4
feet into the
On 16 Aug 2014 at 12:31, paul swed wrote:
I wonder why? And I complain about my antennas.
It turns out that Cutler has a much-bigger-than-usual problem with
lightning...
Well, apparently, first of all, Cutler is situated in what turns out to be an
especially lightning-prone area
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent the top
half of the input cycle.
In the top path it inverts once
The bottom path twice.
So that makes the top 180 out and the bottom in phase with the original.
However the 2 X RC sets the bottom
On 16 Aug 2014 at 13:35, paul swed wrote:
Kenneth on the opamps that is correct.
But I put little U's to indicate phase. They actually represent the top half
of
the input cycle.
Yes, I saw those, but unless I am mistaken, you didn't add a U after the
second opamp, which would have
Indeed according to the tracor 900 manual you could get to -11th in 24
hours best case. Further comment was NAA is CS as of 1976! The 900 indeed
has a semi simple op amp adapter thing that reduces or gets rid of the MSK.
Though I have read the description and details it makes no sense as to how
it
NAA actually is above and below 24KHz. That said I suspect that the system
simply averages the MSK out of the loop by the filter TC of the PLL.
There are numbers of propagation papers on NAA.
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed according to
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:09:23PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
I had discounted it because of the lack of info and totally unclear how to
get rid of the FSK. MSK is FSK just with a very narrow shift. Also the
effects of the fsk on the carrier. Hmmm glad I am typing this.
It may be that the mark
www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor*900A*.pdf
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:49 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
David
Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way.
But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a
reference.
Its
David
Yes I have seen various comments and documents describing MSK that way.
But have to say the tracor 900 does not use that method to establish a
reference.
Its a few opamps perhaps one side acting as a phase delay summing with the
original and hitting a BPF. all of that running at 100Hz center
Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop
trick.
The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift.
So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that
may drop phase due to noise.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:52 PM,
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop
trick.
The action of the MSK card doubles the phase shift.
So it is the classic double the frequency stateless carrier recovery. that
may drop phase due to
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 04:56:01PM -0400, paul swed wrote:
Yes I can see on page 2 of the pdf thats the trick. Its a non costas loop
trick.
That PDF is returning a 404 for me at the moment...
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass
02493
An
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf.
Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com
I did see the info there also.
Browsers we luv'em.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:20 PM,
URL ok from here
-pete
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:25 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf.
Try his main page http://www.glkinst.com
I did
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote:
URL ok from here
The text of the original post had *s in the URL... which
didn't work so well...
Partly pilot error here...
Works OK without the *s
-pete
--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE,
Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started looking at
NAA and msk.
Regards
Paul.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, David I. Emery d...@dieconsulting.com
wrote:
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 03:39:07PM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote:
URL ok from here
The text of the
Oh Ebay has one for sale for the person that just needs one. Todays buy now
$1693 plus shipping.
There you go a deal a day. I think not.
regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:48 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Whats interesting is I had never heard of the 900 till I started
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf.
The problem with the above link is the period is included as part of the
link when you click on it. It will work without the period.
-Arthur
so much for copy and paste.
Thanks
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@gmail.com
wrote:
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
http://www.glkinst.com/test-equipment/manuals/Tracor900A.pdf.
The problem with the above
Did check NAA and its banging into Boston. Had to put 40 db anttenuator
inline to make it reasonable. Using the wwvb antenna. Most likely would do
just fine with 6 ft of wire. Ok only had 4 ft of wire and its there. Could
really use 10-12ft. :-) So maybe my fillings won't pick it up.
Regards
Paul.
On 15 Aug 2014 at 20:57, paul swed wrote:
Did check NAA and its banging into Boston.
2 Megawatts to that antenna should show VOLTS at your place.
We used that station for many years for VLF propagation research in
Missoula, Montana. It banged in 24/7/365. Still does, except when its down
for
interesting to read:
a very low frequency comparator for relating local frequency to u.s.
standards http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1964-10.pdf
73
alex
On 8/15/2014 4:52 PM, Arthur Dent wrote:
Not sure whats up with the link when I click it I get the download. Its a
2.5MB file
-nuts] Cutler NAA on 24.0kHz
According to a document I just found
(http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1743.pdf) it would seem that the
naval transmitters are at least .05 10e-9. I don't imagine they have gotten
worse since that was published (1967!).
So maybe not quite as good as WWVB
So does anyone know what frequency stability NAA has as of today?
When I fire-up my VLF RX converter they are so loud I'd hate to live near
the site.
One might be able to hear it with silver fillings in their teeth while
eating a lemon! ;- )
-Brian, WA1ZMS
According to a document I just found
(http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/1743.pdf) it would seem that the
naval transmitters are at least .05 10e-9. I don't imagine they have gotten
worse since that was published (1967!).
So maybe not quite as good as WWVB (which was then spec'ed at .02
50 matches
Mail list logo
