Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-10 Thread Bob Camp
Hi On Nov 10, 2014, at 1:59 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 4cdc0090-dd4b-4380-acc1-40a80d3bc...@n1k.org, Bob Camp writes: Hi Here’s what I’m saying: The NTP algorithm as it is written and as it is implemented results in an output clock that does

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-10 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 11/09/2014 10:54 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi The main point is that NTP picks *one* source from among it’s batch of inputs and uses that. The ADEV of the output can be no better than the ADEV of the output. The statement

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-10 Thread Chris Albertson
What you can do is to have a set of free-running oscillators, use them to build a ensemble paper-clock average, which when weighing them against the stability of the ensemble clock the individual stability will expose itself, and that ensemble clock will have some weighted frequency, and the

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The main point is that NTP picks *one* source from among it’s batch of inputs and uses that. The ADEV of the output can be no better than the ADEV of the output. In the case of an ensemble of clocks combined with a better approach the ADEV of the output can be better than the ADEV of the

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Paul
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: The main point is that NTP picks *one* source Not according to the documentation (since at least 2005). I'll admit to not having read the code for the primary algorithms. ___ time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Chris Albertson
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi The main point is that NTP picks *one* source from among it’s batch of inputs and uses that. The ADEV of the output can be no better than the ADEV of the output. The statement above is not correct. NTP does not select just

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Bob Camp
HI What is going on is that people are confusing the estimation process that is used by the selection process (which does look at a lot of stuff) and how that is described. They are then making the leap to the locking process, which is something else altogether. It’s easy to see that this is

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Hal Murray
kb...@n1k.org said: What is going on is that people are confusing the estimation process that is used by the selection process (which does look at a lot of stuff) and how that is described. ... In this context, it's important to remember that there are 2 parameters associated with the

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Paul
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: What is going on is that people are confusing the estimation process that is used by the selection process (which does look at a lot of stuff) and how that is described. They are then making the leap to the locking process, which

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Here’s what I’m saying: The NTP algorithm as it is written and as it is implemented results in an output clock that does *not* improve when a number of very good clocks are being used and the output is compared to the input. In that case and that case alone, the system simply does what one

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Paul
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 6:18 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: The NTP algorithm as it is written and as it is implemented results in an output clock that does *not* improve when a number of very good clocks are being used and the output is compared to the input. In that case and that case

Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five -Ensemble

2014-11-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 4cdc0090-dd4b-4380-acc1-40a80d3bc...@n1k.org, Bob Camp writes: Hi Here’s what I’m saying: The NTP algorithm as it is written and as it is implemented results in an output clock that does *not* improve when a number of very good clocks are being used [...] The crucial word