Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi Tom,

Nice photos. Looks like you guys had a great time.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/21/2016 09:09 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Mike,

For the episode itself it was probably unnecessary to show that zeroing or 
syncing step. But of course it's important to me, the original doubting Thomas, 
and is covered in all the data analysis.

For you, or others who want to read more about the experiment, scroll down to 
the time dilation plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "Mike Feher" <mfe...@eozinc.com>
To: <warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com>; "'Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),



I too enjoyed the show as well as Tom's part in it. However call me "doubting Thomas" or 
in this case Mike, I have the same concerns as expressed by "ws". Also, an initial 
comparison of the two used, at low altitude, to show an unmeasurable difference would have been 
helpful. All that aside it was great, and, I am not smart enough to understand it all anyway. 
Regards - Mike

Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960 office
908-902-3831 cell

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ws at Yahoo 
via time-nuts
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:37 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

Tom
Impressive. Nice job.

How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns of 
phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity and not by 
some other combination of environment and handling issues that effected phase 
&/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and operating at different 
temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt angles, power supply voltages, 
airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other unmeasured things that may be effecting 
the results?

To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and without 
changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks be put on a 
centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local park?

Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS standards? 
Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.

ws




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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The real answer to the question lies in the scientific method its self. You 
never ever rely 
on any single experiment, no matter how well done. There is no single 
experiment that 
can ever prove a point “beyond any doubt” (yes that is deliberate). Instead  
the answer is to
look at *all* of the experiments and to actively encourage multiple tests of a 
theory from many
different directions. The theory only holds if *all* of the experiments support 
it. You get a nice 
big prize (named after that dynamite guy)  if you disprove the prevailing 
theory. THAT is why 
you accept the theory rather than any single experiment. There never ever is 
any single experiment
that will demonstrate any point against total doubt. 

Bob

> On May 21, 2016, at 8:07 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> 
>> Tom 
>> Impressive. Nice job.
>> 
>> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
>> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
>> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues
> 
> Hi Warren,
> 
> I've given a lot thought on how to perform these clock experiments with 
> precision and redundancy, and also how to report the results in a way that is 
> educational and convincing. I don't know if one can ever "prove beyond doubt" 
> since the second half of that equation belongs to another person. But one can 
> go a long way to plan everything before and during an experiment to address 
> the first half of the equation, the part you do control.
> 
> In the ten years since I did the original Mt Rainier experiment I've gotten a 
> lot of email from people seeking clarification and I think I've covered the 
> bases pretty well. But one thing I always wanted to do was a repeat trip just 
> to make sure it wasn't dumb luck the first time. Maybe a different method, 
> maybe without kids, maybe a different mountain. And the PBS / Hawking 
> invitation was the perfect excuse to fulfill that goal.
> 
> The recent posting by Wulf about 5065A environmental sensitivities is a nice 
> example of analyzing sources of instability, and double checking assumptions, 
> etc.
> 
> You asked specifically how would one go about to prove -- and I can help 
> there. In the next posting I will answer your query with this detail:
> 
> 1) The design, specs, reputation, and experience of 5071A clocks world-wide.
> 2) The measured performance of my own particular set of 5071A.
> 3) Independent corroboration using alternate time transfer methods.
> 4) Supporting evidence by relativity experiments, both similar and different.
> 5) Probability of accidental success.
> 
> /tvb
> 
> 
> - Original Message ----- 
> From: "ws at Yahoo via time-nuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
> To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),
> 
> 
>> Tom 
>> Impressive. Nice job.
>> 
>> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
>> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
>> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that
>> effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and
>> operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt
>> angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other
>> unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?
>> 
>> To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
>> without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
>> be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
>> park?
>> 
>> Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS
>> standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.
>> 
>> ws 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Tom Van Baak]

> Tom 
> Impressive. Nice job.
> 
> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues

Hi Warren,

I've given a lot thought on how to perform these clock experiments with 
precision and redundancy, and also how to report the results in a way that is 
educational and convincing. I don't know if one can ever "prove beyond doubt" 
since the second half of that equation belongs to another person. But one can 
go a long way to plan everything before and during an experiment to address the 
first half of the equation, the part you do control.

In the ten years since I did the original Mt Rainier experiment I've gotten a 
lot of email from people seeking clarification and I think I've covered the 
bases pretty well. But one thing I always wanted to do was a repeat trip just 
to make sure it wasn't dumb luck the first time. Maybe a different method, 
maybe without kids, maybe a different mountain. And the PBS / Hawking 
invitation was the perfect excuse to fulfill that goal.

The recent posting by Wulf about 5065A environmental sensitivities is a nice 
example of analyzing sources of instability, and double checking assumptions, 
etc.

You asked specifically how would one go about to prove -- and I can help there. 
In the next posting I will answer your query with this detail:

1) The design, specs, reputation, and experience of 5071A clocks world-wide.
2) The measured performance of my own particular set of 5071A.
3) Independent corroboration using alternate time transfer methods.
4) Supporting evidence by relativity experiments, both similar and different.
5) Probability of accidental success.

/tvb


- Original Message - 
From: "ws at Yahoo via time-nuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>
To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),


> Tom 
> Impressive. Nice job.
> 
> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that
> effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and
> operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt
> angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other
> unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?
> 
> To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
> without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
> be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
> park?
> 
> Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS
> standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.
> 
> ws 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Attila Kinali]

On Sat, 21 May 2016 20:30:16 +0200
Attila Kinali  wrote:

> The only two things that have this effect are (true) gravity and speed.

TvB and ws both pointed out that I am wrong here.

A homogenous gravity field and linear acceleration are indisdinguishable.

The rest of the mail still holds, as a centrifuge does not apply a
linear acceleration, but a rotating vector who's average is zero.

Attila Kinali

-- 
Reading can seriously damage your ignorance.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Tom Van Baak]

Mike,

For the episode itself it was probably unnecessary to show that zeroing or 
syncing step. But of course it's important to me, the original doubting Thomas, 
and is covered in all the data analysis.

For you, or others who want to read more about the experiment, scroll down to 
the time dilation plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Feher" <mfe...@eozinc.com>
To: <warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com>; "'Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement'" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),


>I too enjoyed the show as well as Tom's part in it. However call me "doubting 
>Thomas" or in this case Mike, I have the same concerns as expressed by "ws". 
>Also, an initial comparison of the two used, at low altitude, to show an 
>unmeasurable difference would have been helpful. All that aside it was great, 
>and, I am not smart enough to understand it all anyway. Regards - Mike  
> 
> Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
> 89 Arnold Blvd.
> Howell, NJ, 07731
> 732-886-5960 office
> 908-902-3831 cell
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ws at Yahoo 
> via time-nuts
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:37 AM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),
> 
> Tom
> Impressive. Nice job.
> 
> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns 
> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity 
> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that 
> effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and 
> operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt 
> angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other 
> unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?
> 
> To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and 
> without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks be 
> put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local park?
> 
> Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS 
> standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.
> 
> ws 
> 
> 

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Tom Van Baak]

Hi Bob,

That's right. The Hawking/PBS show wanted to show time dilation. My goal was to 
make absolutely sure that the experiment worked. Given that the UK producers 
flew a group of ten to Tucson for the filming I did not want to be the one to 
screw up. So that's one reason my car had so much gear. It's wasn't "spare" 
like an unused spare tire; all the gear was running.

A full set of 3 + 3 clocks, counters, dist amps, power supplies, laptops, a 
triple redundant 12/12/120 VAC power system, 750 pounds of batteries, etc. All 
clocks were compared for a week before the trip and during the 2 day trip down 
to Arizona, as well as comparison amongst the 3 hotel/car clocks and the 3 
summit clocks. Again, I did not want to be the one to screw up the film, or 
make relativity look bad. Oh, it was also a one-shot experiment; the schedule 
did not permit any "re-takes". So let's say I felt some pressure to make sure 
it all worked. I even signed up for AAA when I realized that the car itself was 
a single point of failure.

I brought the SR620 along because I like its bold camera-friendly display. For 
the final scene we used it along with just two 5071A, to keep things simple. 
The focus was time dilation, not clock ensembles or multi-channel phase 
comparison techniques. But, yes, behind the scenes, all 6 clocks and 53132A 
counters were used in the experiment. This arrangement allowed me a seamless 
backup if one (or even two) of the clocks died, or lost power, or was dropped. 
As it turns out nothing went wrong, so my reward is more data than necessary; 
for additional self-checking or a sqrt(n) boost.

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Camp" <kb...@n1k.org>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),


Hi

If you noticed, when they played at the back of the car, Tom seemed to have a 
few “spare”
5071’s along….. Just out driving around with a half dozen 5071’s in the middle 
of Arizona ….
nothing at all odd about that ….

Any time you see a TV show that does something like this, you can be pretty 
sure that there
are things going on to make it “flow” for the average viewer. I think they did 
a terrific job in
that respect, without turning it into mush. 

Bob


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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Mike Feher]

I too enjoyed the show as well as Tom's part in it. However call me "doubting 
Thomas" or in this case Mike, I have the same concerns as expressed by "ws". 
Also, an initial comparison of the two used, at low altitude, to show an 
unmeasurable difference would have been helpful. All that aside it was great, 
and, I am not smart enough to understand it all anyway. Regards - Mike  

Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960 office
908-902-3831 cell

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of ws at Yahoo 
via time-nuts
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:37 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

Tom
Impressive. Nice job.

How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns of 
phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity and not 
by some other combination of environment and handling issues that effected 
phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and operating at 
different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt angles, power 
supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other unmeasured things 
that may be effecting the results?

To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and without 
changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks be put on a 
centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local park?

Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS standards? 
Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.

ws 

 

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Attila Kinali]

On Sat, 21 May 2016 08:37:25 -0700
ws at Yahoo via time-nuts  wrote:

> To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
> without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
> be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
> park?

A centrifuge does not increase gravity. It only applies an ever changing
accelerating force onto the object. As such, it does not change how
time progresses.

The only two things that have this effect are (true) gravity and speed.

The book "Modern Physics" by Tipler and Llewellyn has a very nice and
easy to understand introduction into special and general relativity
and is worth a read.

Attila Kinali

-- 
Reading can seriously damage your ignorance.
-- unknown
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 5/21/2016 8:37 AM, ws at Yahoo via time-nuts wrote:


How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that
effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and
operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt
angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other
unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?

To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
park?

Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS
standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.

ws



I was on the 5071A design team 25 years ago.  I designed most of the RF
sections.  We analyzed all known environmental effects (they were
known from experience with the 5061) and, using newer digital
technology, the individual effects where budgeted to better than
10^-14 each, and in most cases much better.  Len Cutler insisted!
It was refreshing to have a manager who didn't believe in "good enough".
This budgeting was to address ABSOLUTE accuracy.  We feel we proved
that absolute accuracy was mainly limited to end to end phase shift
in the Cs cavity.  Proprietary techniques were used to reduce this to
values equivalent to a mechanical asymmetry of a small fraction of a
"mil" (1/1000 inch).

Tom's experiment only requires STABILITY.  As you can see from Tom's
measurements vs an H maser, the Allan deviation is pure white noise
down to where the curves end at 10^-14.  Thus for sufficiently long
averaging time, the stability can be measured to this accuracy.
Even at this level, AD still has not "flickered out" meaning the
it would level off, and would not improve with additional time
averaging.

Various environmental tests were done with extremely long averaging
in an attempt to put a number on parameters such as tempco, humidity,
pressure, magnetic field, etc.  These tests took place over the
better part of a year.  The results were that none of these parameters
could be measured, because no effects were observed.  We could only
say that there was an upper bound in the area of 10^-15 on these
effects.

2G turnover is a special case.  Because the beam is a physical stream
of particles, it is possible that acceleration could affect the
beam.  Len Cutler discovered that previous HP cesium beam tubes
had a design flaw that made them have transient errors when used
in submarines (IOW they could get "seasick" :-).  I don't remember
exactly the details, but it was something like using dual beams,
that seemed like a good idea at the time, but had some sort of
physics fallacy.  Simply mounting the standard upside down vs
right side up does not create any error as it does in a crystal
oscillator.  I believe that the perfected design was also immune
to the act of flipping it over, carrying it around, or driving
around in a car with it.  I don't know about a centrifuge.  At
some point, the internal OCXO error will not be correctable
by the slow feedback loop.  Let's be reasonable here.

In any event, event the original 5060A flying clock trips made
by Cutler himself survived baggage handlers (who I am sure were
on their best behavior under Len's watchful eye.)  The 5071A is
light years ahead of that design, with virtually everything
under closed loop control.

We felt that we did as well as was possible for a non-reversible
cavity of that size, without optical pumping.  Not to mention
that it runs on an internal lead acid battery (this was before Li Ion) 
and can be lifted by one (strong) person.


It was great to see that this clock is still relevant as it nears
its 25th birthday.

Rick Karlquist N6RK



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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[Bob Camp]

Hi

If you noticed, when they played at the back of the car, Tom seemed to have a 
few “spare”
5071’s along….. Just out driving around with a half dozen 5071’s in the middle 
of Arizona ….
nothing at all odd about that ….

Any time you see a TV show that does something like this, you can be pretty 
sure that there
are things going on to make it “flow” for the average viewer. I think they did 
a terrific job in
that respect, without turning it into mush. 

Bob

> On May 21, 2016, at 11:37 AM, ws at Yahoo via time-nuts  
> wrote:
> 
> Tom 
> Impressive. Nice job.
> 
> How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
> of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
> and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that
> effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and
> operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt
> angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other
> unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?
> 
> To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
> without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
> be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
> park?
> 
> Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS
> standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.
> 
> ws 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),

[ws at Yahoo via time-nuts]

Tom 
Impressive. Nice job.

How would one go about to prove beyond a doubt in that experiment that 18ns
of phase shift in 24 hrs was truly caused by freq offset due to Relativity
and not by some other combination of environment and handling issues that
effected phase &/or freq once the identical clocks where separated and
operating at different temperatures, pressures, elevations, vibration, tilt
angles, power supply voltages, airflow, cosmic rays, ozone, or some other
unmeasured things that may be effecting the results?

To increase  *gravity* a lot more than a 7,000 ft altitude change, and
without changing the environment variables, could one set of the CS clocks
be put on a centrifuge, such as a fast spinning merry-go-round at a local
park?

Anyone know what the 2G turn over effect, TC, etc, is of portable CS
standards? Ideally they should all be zero, but probable aren't.

ws 

 

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Bob Stewart]

If you're using someone else's clock (e.g. GPS time) then it doesn't matter 
what's happening to you, you'll only know what you see on that clock.  But, if 
you have your own clock (e.g. an HP 5071A) on your person, and can compare it 
to someone else's clock, then assuming both clocks are accurate enough, you can 
see any difference in the rate of time you are experiencing vs the other person.

Bob

On Fri, 5/20/16, Peter Reilley <preilley_...@comcast.net> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium 
clocks
 To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
 Date: Friday, May 20, 2016, 10:24 AM
 
 I have a
 question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if
 the time 
 difference between the
 top of the mountain and the bottom of the
 mountain is 20 nS over 24 
 hours could
 you
 repeat the same experiment using GPS? 
   The time difference of 20 nS is 
 measurable
 using GPS.
 
 The GPS clock must run faster
 on the mountain top than the GPS at the 
 mountain
 base and yet the two
 remain synchronized to the satellite
 reference.   
 Therefore
 the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS)
 must be wrong in in one of 
 the local
 frame references.
 
 My brain hurts.
 
 Pete.
 
 
 On 5/20/2016 10:16 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 > Hi
 >
 > Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode.
 Very impressive stuff. Well done !!!
 >
 > Bob
 >
 >
 >> On May 20, 2016,
 at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com>
 wrote:
 >>
 >> For
 those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told
 PBS has a live stream:
 >> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/
 >>
 >> The cesium
 clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
 >> I also added more photos/plots to:
 >> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
 >>
 >> /tvb
 >>
 ___
 >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 >> To unsubscribe, go to 
 >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 >> and follow the instructions there.
 >
 ___
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 > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There is a (possibly bogus) story from the early days of GPS:

The Cesium standards were specified with a tuning range of X. That all was fine 
on earth. The gotcha was
that the frequency change in orbit was a significant percentage of X. Simply 
put, the guys who did the 
spec “didn’t believe” in relativity (or at least didn’t do the math). When this 
all came up a crash course 
in physics was arranged and the spec was changed. 

Bob


> On May 20, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Good question. And, yes, it would work to use GPS.
> 
> But we don't do it that way because it's a poor physics demonstration to use 
> a highly complex system that *already* takes relativity, propagation delay, 
> gravity and elevation into account (GPS) as a tool to then "detect" 
> relativistic effects in a portable cesium clock at high altitude.
> 
> The clearest demonstration, one free from needing to know anything or 
> everything about GPS, one that avoids circular proof, is just to use two 
> identical synchronized portable clocks. So that's why and what we did.
> 
> Alternatively, a really nice *thought* experiment is -- if your GPS receiver 
> firmware, and if the entire DoD infrastructure eliminated all notions of 
> relativity for one day. Everyone would then get a wonderful lesson on why 
> relativity is important in a satellite-based PNT system like GPS. Hint: it 
> would screw up 1PPS timing and UTC by tens of microseconds, but as far as I 
> can tell, it would distort positioning only by a small fraction of a meter.
> 
> The nearest we have to this thought experiment was the pre-GPS experiment 
> done with NTS-2 in 1977. Read, or at least look at the plots at the end of:
> http://leapsecond.com/history/Ashby-Relativity.htm
> http://leapsecond.com/history/1978-PTTI-v9-NTS-2.pdf
> 
> /tvb
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Peter Reilley" <preilley_...@comcast.net>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A 
> cesium clocks
> 
> 
>> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time 
>> difference between the
>> top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 
>> hours could you
>> repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is 
>> measurable
>> using GPS.
>> 
>> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the 
>> mountain
>> base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.   
>> Therefore
>> the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of 
>> the local
>> frame references.
>> 
>> My brain hurts.
>> 
>> Pete.
>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Bob Camp]

Hi

A GPS receiver is simply picking up the time information from the orbital 
system. The satellites 
do not change height when you move around, thus their reported time does not 
change either. 
Coming up with 20 ns from GPS involves a lot of post processing, that’s not 
going to play very
well on prime time TV. There’s just to much handwaving. Moving real clocks is 
much more convincing. 

Bob

> On May 20, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Peter Reilley  wrote:
> 
> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time difference 
> between the
> top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 hours 
> could you
> repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is 
> measurable
> using GPS.
> 
> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the mountain
> base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.   
> Therefore
> the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of the 
> local
> frame references.
> 
> My brain hurts.
> 
> Pete.
> 
> 
> On 5/20/2016 10:16 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode. Very impressive stuff. Well done 
>> !!!
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 20, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a live 
>>> stream:
>>> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/
>>> 
>>> The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
>>> I also added more photos/plots to:
>>> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
>>> 
>>> /tvb
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Hal Murray]

preilley_...@comcast.net said:
> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time
> difference between the top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is
> 20 nS over 24  hours could you repeat the same experiment using GPS?The
> time difference of 20 nS is  measurable using GPS. 

The experiment has already been run.  (is being run?)

The GPS satellites are much higher than any mountain.  Their clocks are 
adjusted so that they will be the right frequency when the signal gets down 
here.  There are actually two corrections, one each for special and general 
relativity.  One is 45 microseconds per day, the other is 7 microseconds per 
day in the other direction.


preilley_...@comcast.net said:
> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the
> mountain base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite
> reference.Therefore the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must
> be wrong in in one of  the local frame references. 

If you adjusted a clock on the mountain top to track GPS, then brought it 
down to the lab at the bottom, it would run at a slightly different frequency.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Edesio Costa e Silva]

I believe not. 20 nS is about 6 meters error in height. I would need to know
the height difference much better than this to have an accurate measurement.

Edésio

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 11:24:42AM -0400, Peter Reilley wrote:
> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time difference
> between the
> top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 hours
> could you
> repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is
> measurable
> using GPS.
> 
> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the
> mountain
> base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.
> Therefore
> the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of the
> local
> frame references.
> 
> My brain hurts.
> 
> Pete.
> 
> 
> On 5/20/2016 10:16 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode. Very impressive stuff. Well done 
> >!!!
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >
> >>On May 20, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> >>
> >>For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a live 
> >>stream:
> >>http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/
> >>
> >>The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
> >>I also added more photos/plots to:
> >>http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
> >>
> >>/tvb
> >>___
> >>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>To unsubscribe, go to 
> >>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>and follow the instructions there.
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> >and follow the instructions there.
> >
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Tom Van Baak]

Hi Peter,

Good question. And, yes, it would work to use GPS.

But we don't do it that way because it's a poor physics demonstration to use a 
highly complex system that *already* takes relativity, propagation delay, 
gravity and elevation into account (GPS) as a tool to then "detect" 
relativistic effects in a portable cesium clock at high altitude.

The clearest demonstration, one free from needing to know anything or 
everything about GPS, one that avoids circular proof, is just to use two 
identical synchronized portable clocks. So that's why and what we did.

Alternatively, a really nice *thought* experiment is -- if your GPS receiver 
firmware, and if the entire DoD infrastructure eliminated all notions of 
relativity for one day. Everyone would then get a wonderful lesson on why 
relativity is important in a satellite-based PNT system like GPS. Hint: it 
would screw up 1PPS timing and UTC by tens of microseconds, but as far as I can 
tell, it would distort positioning only by a small fraction of a meter.

The nearest we have to this thought experiment was the pre-GPS experiment done 
with NTS-2 in 1977. Read, or at least look at the plots at the end of:
http://leapsecond.com/history/Ashby-Relativity.htm
http://leapsecond.com/history/1978-PTTI-v9-NTS-2.pdf

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Reilley" <preilley_...@comcast.net>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium 
clocks


> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time 
> difference between the
> top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 
> hours could you
> repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is 
> measurable
> using GPS.
> 
> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the 
> mountain
> base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.   
> Therefore
> the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of 
> the local
> frame references.
> 
> My brain hurts.
> 
> Pete.
> 

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Clint Jay]

To  my simple mind they'd be out but by a constant amount because they're
still locked to one master clock.   The discrepancy would be from the "time
of flight"  between the top and bottom of the mountain.

Or I may have completely misunderstood.
On 20 May 2016 17:01, "Peter Reilley"  wrote:

> I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time
> difference between the
> top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 hours
> could you
> repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is
> measurable
> using GPS.
>
> The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the
> mountain
> base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.
>  Therefore
> the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of
> the local
> frame references.
>
> My brain hurts.
>
> Pete.
>
>
> On 5/20/2016 10:16 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode. Very impressive stuff. Well
>> done !!!
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> On May 20, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
>>>
>>> For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a
>>> live stream:
>>> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/
>>>
>>> The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
>>> I also added more photos/plots to:
>>> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
>>>
>>> /tvb
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Peter Reilley]

I have a question.   I, of small brain, am wondering: if the time 
difference between the
top of the mountain and the bottom of the mountain is 20 nS over 24 
hours could you
repeat the same experiment using GPS?The time difference of 20 nS is 
measurable

using GPS.

The GPS clock must run faster on the mountain top than the GPS at the 
mountain
base and yet the two remain synchronized to the satellite reference.   
Therefore
the GPS 1 PPS signal (measurable to a few nS) must be wrong in in one of 
the local

frame references.

My brain hurts.

Pete.


On 5/20/2016 10:16 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode. Very impressive stuff. Well done !!!

Bob



On May 20, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a live 
stream:
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/

The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
I also added more photos/plots to:
http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Ok, so *that* link got me to the episode. Very impressive stuff. Well done !!!

Bob


> On May 20, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Tom Van Baak  wrote:
> 
> For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a live 
> stream:
> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/
> 
> The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
> I also added more photos/plots to:
> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
> 
> /tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Dan Rae]

I have a recording of this on my hard drive, at1.3 Gb it's too big to 
email but I can share it via Wetransfer if anyone wants it.  I would 
need a recipient's email address to do this.


Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Tom Van Baak]

For those of you who missed the live TV broadcast, I'm told PBS has a live 
stream:
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365757267/

The cesium clock parts are in the last 15 minutes of the show.
I also added more photos/plots to:
http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Eric Scace]

For those of us who do not have TVs, pointers to an Internet source for viewing 
the show would be welcomed. Thanks!


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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[John Miles]

Public service announcement: I just tried to stream this episode on Amazon 
Prime Video, and it seems they have some sort of indexing snafu going on.  They 
offer episode 1 ("Can We Time-Travel?") and episode 2 ("Are We Alone?") for 
viewing, but what actually played when I selected them were two completely 
unrelated/unannounced episodes.  The first episode is on the size of the Earth, 
solar system and Universe, and the second one discusses abiogenesis and 
evolution.

Both episodes are worth the $2.99 price of entry IMO, but there are a grand 
total of zero 5071As in either of them. 

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC
 
> Anyway, I'll see if the videos appear somewhere on the internet some
> time. ;-)
> 
> Martin

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[jmfranke]

Well done Tom! As always, you represented the Time-Nuts community in a most 
professional manner. 

John  WA4WDL
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , "Bill Hawkins" writes:

>Meanwhile, here I am on the third floor of a retirement community,
>possibly living faster than those on the first floor.
>Not that it approaches a significant fraction of a second per year; it's
>the principle of the thing.

Dont knock it, mathematically speaking, your relative benefit of
difference will go asymptotically against infinity over time.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Rex]

I just watched it on PBS. Nicely done recreation of your GREAT 
experiment, Tom. Good to see you had a couple personal appearances, and 
especially for the final results.


Looks like your SR620 counter had a hyperdrive undercarriage lighting 
option. :-)




On 5/17/2016 7:50 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that.

Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing 
else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the 
clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know.

/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:00 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium clocks


Fellow time nuts,

Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts next 
Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and episode 
1 is: Can We Time Travel?

Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to 
Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very entertaining. And I'm 
definitely going to watch it with my family.

So why do I mention this?

Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the UK-based 
producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 100th 
anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational time 
dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near Tucson, 
Arizona.

The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock bit 
is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I did ( 
http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and film 
something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A cesium 
clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1.

The PR link to the episode is:

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/

Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and FAQ 
here next week:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Bill Hawkins]

Well, Tom, you did get an active part in the show, and Stephen Hawking
credited your worldwide reputation. Wow.

You even sounded as natural as the actors used to give emotional depth
to a science story.

What troubles me is that we have the instruments to detect a 20
nanosecond difference in atomic clocks, but we have no way of measuring
the effect on living cells. At least, not until we have devices that
will transport us near the speed of light.

Meanwhile, here I am on the third floor of a retirement community,
possibly living faster than those on the first floor.
Not that it approaches a significant fraction of a second per year; it's
the principle of the thing.

:-)

Bill Hawkins

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Wes]

Congratulations Tom,

I'm a lurker here and learn something every day.  I'm also in Tucson and have 
spent a lot of time on Mt. Lemmon so that hook is really cool.


My recorder is all set.  Locally on PBS at 9PM.

Wes  N7WS

On 5/17/2016 7:50 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that.

Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing 
else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the 
clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know.

/tvb

- Original Message -
From: "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:00 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium clocks


Fellow time nuts,

Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts next 
Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and episode 
1 is: Can We Time Travel?

Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to 
Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very entertaining. And I'm 
definitely going to watch it with my family.

So why do I mention this?

Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the UK-based 
producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 100th 
anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational time 
dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near Tucson, 
Arizona.

The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock bit 
is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I did ( 
http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and film 
something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A cesium 
clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1.

The PR link to the episode is:

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/

Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and FAQ 
here next week:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

/tvb
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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Don Lewis]

Congratulations, Tom, on a successful experiment.  You should feel very 
proud.


I have seen the promotions for the BBC episode and was looking forward to 
it, but now, ... I am really excited!


I continue to learn and be educated from your Time-Nuts site (and you!).  I 
thank you for your ownership and leadership of the Group.


Job well done.

Don
N5CID








-Original Message- 
From: Tom Van Baak

Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 9:50 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A 
cesium clocks


The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that.

Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing 
else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the 
clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know.


/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
<time-nuts@febo.com>

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:00 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium 
clocks



Fellow time nuts,

Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts 
next Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and 
episode 1 is: Can We Time Travel?


Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to 
Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very 
entertaining. And I'm definitely going to watch it with my family.


So why do I mention this?

Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the 
UK-based producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 
100th anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational 
time dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near 
Tucson, Arizona.


The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock 
bit is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I 
did ( http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and 
film something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A 
cesium clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1.


The PR link to the episode is:

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/

Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and 
FAQ here next week:


http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

/tvb
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there. 


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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Martin Burnicki]

Hi Tom,

Tom Van Baak wrote:
> The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that.
> 
> Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots:
> 
> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/
> 
> http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
> 
> I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing 
> else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the 
> clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know.

Very nice stuff, and great that you've been involved in the show.
Unfortunately it looks like I can't watch the episodes here in Germany. :-(

Anyway, I'll see if the videos appear somewhere on the internet some
time. ;-)

Martin

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Re: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Tom Van Baak]

The TV show is tomorrow, Wednesday evening. 8/9 PM, or something like that.

Here are fresh web pages with background information, photos, and plots:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm

I have no idea how minor my role is in the actual TV episode, but if nothing 
else, the above two pages will share some time nuts sort of details of the 
clock experiment itself. If you have any questions let me know.

/tvb

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:00 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV),with 5071A cesium clocks


Fellow time nuts,

Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts 
next Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and 
episode 1 is: Can We Time Travel?

Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to 
Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very entertaining. 
And I'm definitely going to watch it with my family.

So why do I mention this?

Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the UK-based 
producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 100th 
anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational time 
dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near Tucson, 
Arizona.

The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock bit 
is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I did ( 
http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and film 
something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A cesium 
clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1.

The PR link to the episode is:

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/

Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and FAQ 
here next week:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

/tvb
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time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] GENIUS by Stephen Hawking (PBS TV), with 5071A cesium clocks

[Tom Van Baak]

Fellow time nuts,

Here in the US, a new six-part TV series on National Geographic / PBS starts 
next Wednesday, May 18th, 2016. The title is "Genius by Stephen Hawking" and 
episode 1 is: Can We Time Travel?

Having not seen it yet, I can't make a promise of its "SNR" (Science to 
Nonsense Ratio). It might be quite educational, or at least, very entertaining. 
And I'm definitely going to watch it with my family.

So why do I mention this?

Well, I spent most of December 2015 and January 2016 working with the UK-based 
producers of the show -- in order to pull off another Einstein 100th 
anniversary, general relativity, cesium atomic clock, gravitational time 
dilation experiment. The location chosen was 9000+ foot Mt Lemmon, near Tucson, 
Arizona.

The Hawking series covers a wide variety of topics, and this atomic clock bit 
is just one very small part. They were inspired by the DIY experiment I did ( 
http://leapsecond.com/great2005/tour/ ) and they wanted to create and film 
something similar. So I offered to help. Scenes with (me? and) my 5071A cesium 
clocks and hp 53132A / SR620 time interval counters are in episode 1.

The PR link to the episode is:

http://www.pbs.org/genius-by-stephen-hawking/episodes/episode-1/

Attached is a photo. I will post lots of technical info, plots, photos and FAQ 
here next week:

http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/

/tvb
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time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.