[time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. Thanks. Fred ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Hi Most GPS disciplined Rb's run loops that are in the several days time constant range. The Tbolt's integer software was designed for several minutes time constants. It's unlikely that it was properly engineered to scale to run the way they seem to run an Rb. Overflow / underflow problems generally come up in these sort of thing. Simple answer - yes you can do it. The issue is weather you can do it well. If the unit free run's at 1x10^-12 for days, it's going to be tough to check out. Ideally you want the TBolt + Rb to be more stable and more accurate than the Rb alone... Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Bray Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:51 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. Thanks. Fred ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
You need a recording phase detector to tell if the 5680A is properly tweeked. I'm sure all of us have a Racal 1992 or similar with a GPIB or other computer interface. Below: phase plot of FE-5680A vs Thunderbolt FW=3.0 in seconds (about 1/2 day). Frequency offset was set to -1280 with my software (available at ftp.omen.com). I have noticed a bump in the phase plot corresponding to an wobble in The Force according to Heather. Think of herding cats made of granite. It looks like observations must be made over days or weeks. On 12/22/2011 09:20 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 attachment: m1280.gif___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. Call it Job4 as it will need the Patience of Job ^ 4. On 12/22/2011 09:46 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Hi there, maybe this has already been discussed here.. There is a small hole on the side of the unit with a small trim-pot visible through the hole. Does anyone know if this is an analog frequency adjustment? If it is, maybe that trimpot connection can be used as disciplining input.. Thanks, Said In a message dated 12/22/2011 09:20:57 Pacific Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Although it isn't using the 5680A Rb that is cheaper, perhaps the Datum/Summetricom X72 Rb oscillator would be a much better unit to try to disipline. I'm going to try that scheme with one of my X72 oscillators. You could use the 1PPS output an unmodified T-bolt or any GPS timing receiver, like one of the inexpensive Motorola units, to control the X72, which is very simple. Below is an except from the X72 manual. I also have an older Datum 9390 that came with a Rb for the oscillator that works quite well, except for the week 1024 date display problem. -Arthur X72 qualifies 1 pulse per second inputs by analyzing the time difference between the X72’s 1PPS output and the external 1PPS input. This is referred to as the HoldOver state. The X72 determines whether the 1PPS input is useable by calculating the rate of change in timing measurements that are taken once per second. Once a 1PPS input is qualified, the X72 1PPS algorithm determines if it is necessary to adjust the counter that produces the 1PPS output (JamSynch state). The algorithm then begins to adjust the output frequency of the X72 to keep the 1PPS output aligned with the 1PPs input. This is the disciplining state and the control method is a Proportional Integral Derivatives (PID) scheme. The amount of frequency change and the length of time required to reach 1PPS accuracy can be adjusted by setting y1 (damping factor) and y2 (time constant) parameters. During this disciplining state, the timing of each 1PPS input is compared to the expected value. If the offset exceeds 333 nanoseconds, the algorithm changes to the HoldOver state and the process begins again. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
As soon as I have finished the aging test, I will use a Shera controller, controlling the C field and the 1 pps output of the Tbolt. Having controlled all my Rb's with GPS/Shera with good results I will continue in that directions, unless some one can direct me in a direction with a better solution. The next challenge will be taking the output of the 5680 and improve its short term performance with a high performance OCXO. I have some 10811 candidate but I am intrigued by the Morion MV 89 that you can see in the background of yesterdays picture, it is a unit I bought for $ 30. Not counting the cost of the Tbolt that most already have, for less than $ 200 one will be able to duplicate using the proper time constants the HP 5065 spec, not the performance some selected ones display. It will spread superior time and frequency capability to a larger group of time nuts. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/22/2011 12:48:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, c...@omen.com writes: You need a recording phase detector to tell if the 5680A is properly tweeked. I'm sure all of us have a Racal 1992 or similar with a GPIB or other computer interface. Below: phase plot of FE-5680A vs Thunderbolt FW=3.0 in seconds (about 1/2 day). Frequency offset was set to -1280 with my software (available at ftp.omen.com). I have noticed a bump in the phase plot corresponding to an wobble in The Force according to Heather. Think of herding cats made of granite. It looks like observations must be made over days or weeks. On 12/22/2011 09:20 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Fred What you may of seen was how to use a TBolt to discipline a LPRO Rb. There are several time nut posting on how to do that in a very simple and high performance way. http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2011-May/056526.html http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=precision_timing:lpro_disciplining_with_thunderbolt You should be able to do something similar using the FE-5680A. The basic way I've done it is to: Modify a Thunderbolt (preferable one with a poor Osc) to use the LPRO's 10 MHz as it's ref osc, and bring out the Tbolt's Dac thru a 1K ohm. http://www.ke5fx.com/tbolt.htm For the LPRO, I added a 12K 1% resistor to the high side of its C field winding, making a low sensitivity EFC input, and connected that to the Tbolt's 1K Dac out resistor. Then by using an 'Extended' Time constant and damping factor setting on the Tbolt, you can set the control loop to anything you want up to many days. Depending how good the Rb's temp-co is and how much you allow it's uncompensated temperature to change, I found that an extended Time constants from 5K sec to 24 hrs worked best for the LPRO. ws *** - Original Message - From: Frederick Bray Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:50 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. Thanks. Fred ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. I don't think it is possible to do that. The RS232 commands don't allow the level of control that is required. All you can do is step the frequency, no way to adjust the phase of the Rb 10MHz output. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Using the digital input will only give you 7 E-13 steps. I will use it for preset. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/22/2011 2:50:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. I don't think it is possible to do that. The RS232 commands don't allow the level of control that is required. All you can do is step the frequency, no way to adjust the phase of the Rb 10MHz output. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
IF? the RS232 command changes the freq and does not reset the phase, then the way to get there is to use dither or PWM between two frequency values. Example: to change the phase 1ps, change the freq by 7e-13 for 1.4 seconds and then put it back. If you want finer resolution than 1 ps then update faster. ws Using the digital input will only give you 7 E-13 steps. I will use it for preset. Bert Kehren *** albertson.chris at gmail.com writes: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R caf at omen.com wrote: You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. ** I don't think it is possible to do that. The RS232 commands don't allow the level of control that is required. All you can do is step the frequency, no way to adjust the phase of the Rb 10MHz output. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California *** ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Phase is the integral of frequency. That is why matching phase is much more sensitive, as you can integrate for a long time. Unlike the fine adjust on the Racal 1992, adjusting the frequency offset on the 5680A is immediate and without a long time constant. You can set the initial phase to whatever you like by setting a large freq offset and watch the phase change. Reset it when the phase gets to what you want. On 12/22/2011 11:49 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. I don't think it is possible to do that. The RS232 commands don't allow the level of control that is required. All you can do is step the frequency, no way to adjust the phase of the Rb 10MHz output. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Let's see... someone mentioned using a magnet on top of the case to alter the Rb lock frequency. So, put the Rb output and the Tbolt output into a single mixer with lopass filter, or a phase comparator, then use the output through something like a picaxe or arduino implementing PID software to run a model aircraft servo with a magnet on the servo arm. Hey Presto! :-) :-) Don Bob Camp Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Why have the Arduino move a magnet when it can send frequency offset commands out a serial port? On 12/22/2011 12:36 PM, Don Latham wrote: Let's see... someone mentioned using a magnet on top of the case to alter the Rb lock frequency. So, put the Rb output and the Tbolt output into a single mixer with lopass filter, or a phase comparator, then use the output through something like a picaxe or arduino implementing PID software to run a model aircraft servo with a magnet on the servo arm. Hey Presto! :-) :-) Don Bob Camp Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Not the phase directly but the rate of change of the phase and this is exactly the way you can discipline an OCXO, phase included. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:57 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Using the digital input will only give you 7 E-13 steps. I will use it for preset. Bert Kehren In a message dated 12/22/2011 2:50:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, albertson.ch...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: You could disable the Tbolt's oscillator and put the Rb output in its place. Then write a program that reads the PPS and/or OSC offset and issue appropriate commands to the Rb to bring it in line. I don't think it is possible to do that. The RS232 commands don't allow the level of control that is required. All you can do is step the frequency, no way to adjust the phase of the Rb 10MHz output. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Yes, why move magnets when it is easier to send commands over the serial link? Or drive the EFC with a DAC for those Rbs that have it. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.comwrote: Why have the Arduino move a magnet when it can send frequency offset commands out a serial port? On 12/22/2011 12:36 PM, Don Latham wrote: Let's see... someone mentioned using a magnet on top of the case to alter the Rb lock frequency. So, put the Rb output and the Tbolt output into a single mixer with lopass filter, or a phase comparator, then use the output through something like a picaxe or arduino implementing PID software to run a model aircraft servo with a magnet on the servo arm. Hey Presto! :-) :-) Don Bob Camp Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, why move magnets when it is easier to Because it would be really cool to watch a robot move a magnet. And just wait until someone is able to measure that you can nudge the frequency by 10e-16 if you spin the entire device at 5 RPM anti-clockwise. For more idea long these line see this site http://www.rubegoldberg.com/ Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Just to be cool:-) Don Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R Why have the Arduino move a magnet when it can send frequency offset commands out a serial port? On 12/22/2011 12:36 PM, Don Latham wrote: Let's see... someone mentioned using a magnet on top of the case to alter the Rb lock frequency. So, put the Rb output and the Tbolt output into a single mixer with lopass filter, or a phase comparator, then use the output through something like a picaxe or arduino implementing PID software to run a model aircraft servo with a magnet on the servo arm. Hey Presto! :-) :-) Don Bob Camp Hi To use the current crop of FE-5680A's directly with the TBolt, you would have to tear it apart and get a wire into the C field circuit. If you didn't do that, you would have to stick a PC (or other controller) in between the TBolt and the Rb. As they come from the vendors, there is no voltage control capability in the units. There are so many flavors of this Rb that anything said about them only applies to some of them. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A? On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Frederick Brayfwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Has anyone successfully used a Thunderbolt to discipline a FE-5680A? I thought I saw a posting or site where someone disabled the 10 MHz oscillator on the Thunderbolt and used the Thunderbolt to discipline the FE-5680A. However, I can't find it now. I would not do it that way. My plan is to leave the t-bolt as is and then every 24 or so hours adjust the FE-5680A if required to better match the t-bolt. My hope is that after some time theFE-5680A will less and less frequent adjustments. This will be a while as my FE-5680A is still in the mail. I think the FE-5680A has to course of adjustment to be used in the fast control loop inside the t-bolt Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Sorry typo.. Should read. For more ideas along the same line of thinking as the moving magnet frequency controller see this http://users.section101.com/memberdata/ru/rubegoldberg/photos/rubegoldberg_photo_gal_4157_photo_240063140_lr.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
thanks, Chris... Don Chris Albertson On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, why move magnets when it is easier to Because it would be really cool to watch a robot move a magnet. And just wait until someone is able to measure that you can nudge the frequency by 10e-16 if you spin the entire device at 5 RPM anti-clockwise. For more idea long these line see this site http://www.rubegoldberg.com/ Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Using Thunderbolt to Discipline FE 5680A?
Surely spinning it would superimpose a rate modulation at 0.0833 Hertz due to
the alternating earth's magnetic field? {:-)
Merry Christmas from Pinner, at one time home to Heath-Robinson the 'inventor'.
On 22 Dec 2011, at 21:19, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Azelio Boriani
azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
Yes, why move magnets when it is easier to
Because it would be really cool to watch a robot move a magnet.
And just wait until someone is able to measure that you can nudge the
frequency by 10e-16 if you spin the entire device at 5 RPM
anti-clockwise.
For more idea long these line see this site
http://www.rubegoldberg.com/
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
___
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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___
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