[time-nuts] Re: Current-day GPS timing receivers

2022-02-18 Thread Bob kb8tq
HI If you decide to build your ham receiver from scratch, you then head out to buy a surplus signal generator for < $100 or so. You buy a couple other pieces of gear, but none of them are as expensive. Back in the day, your TR4 cost way more than the “bench gear” to do this or that. By far, the

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread glen english LIST
I have used the switched capacitor type, with direct control over the switching caps . We were able to high speed dither the switch settings to get 1/2 and 1/4 and 1/8 steps of the minimum capacitor switch step. This way, we got high control resolution. BUT- this only works for requirements

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
Hi Erik, I only saw that thread later, and I will have to return to that as I have a little more energy. I'm trying to get you up to speed with the many variants there is, and there is plenty experience here to feed from. What may be true for one device will not make any sense for another.

[time-nuts] Re: Types of noise (was: Phase Station 53100A Questions)

2022-02-18 Thread Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
Dear Joe, On 2022-02-13 23:31, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 03:30:30 -0500, time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com wrote: time-nuts Digest, Vol 214, Issue 15 Attila, Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:38:48 +0100 From: Attila Kinali Subject: [time-nuts] Types of noise (was: Phase Station 53100A

[time-nuts] General Relativity at millimetre scale.

2022-02-18 Thread Jeff Zambory
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2022/02/jila-atomic-clocks-measure-einsteins-general-relativity-millimeter-scale Something for people here in this group to strive for???  Jeff Z. Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list --

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Attila Kinali
On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 11:56:02 +0100 Magnus Danielson via time-nuts wrote: > I think you have yourself a digital TCXO controller. Those use a > tempsensor, use the reading to calculate the compensation and the use a > normal varactor control to steer the frequency. Quick side note: On modern,

[time-nuts] Re: Types of noise (was: Phase Station 53100A Questions)

2022-02-18 Thread Attila Kinali
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:07:54 -0500 Joseph Gwinn wrote: > > That's an interesting noise model. And one that is oddly specific. > > Did you see that in some application? If yes, could you explain a bit more? > > When integrating large systems, people have a lot of trouble with > loose and/or

[time-nuts] Re: Current-day GPS timing receivers

2022-02-18 Thread Attila Kinali
On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 12:19:23 -0800 Larry Gadallah wrote: > The local elders croaked out: "You don't want to do that. You won't > learn anything. You should build your own radio from scratch and gain > some valuable experience." So, here I am some 40 years later, getting > the exact opposite

[time-nuts] Re: Current-day GPS timing receivers

2022-02-18 Thread Larry Gadallah
Hi Bob: I had to LoL (laugh out loud) when I read your message. I definitely get what you are saying, but it amused me to no end; When I got my first ham license, one of my elmers was the regional distributor for Drake, so I announced my intention to take my hard earned cash and purchase a shiny

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi If it’s a sub $1 device, it’s pretty much guaranteed that it has digital “stuff” inside it. That circuitry will generate blips and pops totally independent of any attempt it makes at compensation. If it “wakes up” this or that digital sub section every 107.34 seconds, you get an internal

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Erik Kaashoek
Hi Magnus, Tom also replied to my question and suggested a 107.34 seconds interval related to dithering with a 1e7/2^30 interval Unfortunately the datasheet is rather short (sub $1 device) and does not provide any hints to being a digital implementation. Thanks to all for helping! Erik.

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Erik Kaashoek
Bill, To test I removed the thermal insulation to increase the heat loss requiring more heat to be generated. The jump pattern did not change! Erik. On 18-2-2022 11:26, bill wrote: Hello, My guess is that it is a quirk of the temperature compensation network inside the TCXO.  I have seen

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Magnus Danielson via time-nuts
Hi Erik, I think you have yourself a digital TCXO controller. Those use a tempsensor, use the reading to calculate the compensation and the use a normal varactor control to steer the frequency. Older TCXOs use a resistor/thermistor network to do the same work. You can probably read up on the

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Erik Kaashoek
Mike, the counter resolution was 40ps with am RMS resolution of 120ps Erik. On 18-2-2022 11:36, Mike Ingle wrote: Hi Erik. What is your counter resolution/gate time? At 1second, the interval difference from 10MHz + 5mHz is 500ps. --mike On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 11:20 AM Erik Kaashoek wrote:

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Mike Ingle
Hi Erik. What is your counter resolution/gate time? At 1second, the interval difference from 10MHz + 5mHz is 500ps. --mike On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 11:20 AM Erik Kaashoek wrote: > During long term testing of some 10 MHz TCXO the output frequency seems > to jump within one second 20 mHz (

[time-nuts] Re: 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread bill
Hello, My guess is that it is a quirk of the temperature compensation network inside the TCXO.  I have seen similar behavior in commercial TCXOs as temperature changes as a result of "break points" in the compensation network.  It is difficult to know exactly unless it is possible to

[time-nuts] 10 MHz TCXO periodically jumping 20 mHz up and down

2022-02-18 Thread Erik Kaashoek
During long term testing of some 10 MHz TCXO  the output frequency seems to jump within one second 20 mHz ( millihertz) up in frequency  every 110 seconds up and after a 25 seconds, again within one second, the same amount down. The noise in the frequency measurement was well below 5 mHz In an