Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Scott Stobbe]

I think you have mistaken the tilde symbol as a negative sign. Tim's 11 dBm
is into the pad.

7 dBm +- 2 dB into 50 ohms is the spec for the mv89 no?

On Saturday, 1 October 2016, Bob Camp  wrote:

> HI
>
> > On Oct 1, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Scott Stobbe  > wrote:
> >
> > If you used a 6db pad in conjunction with a 50 ohm termination you are
> spot
> > on. If you used a 6dB pad as a 50 ohm load, the effective load will be a
> > bit higher than 50 and the attenuation less than 6 dB. Either way sounds
> > like the output stage of your OCXO is in spec for 7 dBm into 50 ohms.
>
>
> The scope is reading -11 dbm after a 6 db pad? Not sure where 7 dbm comes
> from.
>
>
> >
> > On Friday, 30 September 2016, Tim Lister  > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Scott Stobbe  
> >> > wrote:
> >>> You are certainly no where near -40 dBm into 50 ohms as the blog Bryan
> >>> posted above. Your setup may have 70-80 pF of load (~220 Ohms), if you
> >> also
> >>> measured the output voltage with a 10x probe you could work backwards
> to
> >>> see how close you are to 50 Ohms output.
> >>>
> >>> Roughly speaking it sounds like it will be in spec for amplitude, but
> to
> >>> definitive you will have to load it with 50 Ohms as others have
> >> suggested.
> >>> Anything can work plug your bnc cable into a 50 Ohm input instrument
> >> (even
> >>> if its ancient) and measure the output voltage on the OCXO with a 10X
> >>> probe. Or a near enough to 50 Ohm resistor as Tim suggested.
> >>
> >> I obtained a (Pomona I think) 50 Ohm terminator/6db attenuator
>
> The 6 db pad
>
> >> and
> >> repeated the measurements with the MV89A, connecting the RF and GND
> >> pins through a BNC cable and the terminator directly into the Channel
> >> 1 of the scope . I now get an amplitude on the scope FFT of -6.99 dB
> >> measured with the cursors. According to the scope manual this is
> >> referenced to 1 V rms so this would give a Vrms equivalent to -0.99 dB
> >> i.e. 0.89 Volts. Assuming I've done the rest of the maths conversions
> >> right, this would give a peak-to-peak value of 1.26 V and a power of
> >> ~11 dBm.
>
> The -11 dbm.
>
> That sounds a lot more like -5 dbm than +7 dbm. This is a pretty typical
> output
> on a broken MV89.
>
> Bob
>
> >> (Assuming everything worked alright, I put the scope captures
> >> up on our Owncloud at
> >> https://cloud.lcogt.net/index.php/s/pHBV6EORT33ucjA - Channel 1 is the
> >> MV89A, Channel 2 is the GPSDO output)
> >>
> >> So I think this means my unit is behaving OK ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Tim
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> 
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bob Camp]

HI

> On Oct 1, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Scott Stobbe  wrote:
> 
> If you used a 6db pad in conjunction with a 50 ohm termination you are spot
> on. If you used a 6dB pad as a 50 ohm load, the effective load will be a
> bit higher than 50 and the attenuation less than 6 dB. Either way sounds
> like the output stage of your OCXO is in spec for 7 dBm into 50 ohms.


The scope is reading -11 dbm after a 6 db pad? Not sure where 7 dbm comes from.
 

> 
> On Friday, 30 September 2016, Tim Lister  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Scott Stobbe > > wrote:
>>> You are certainly no where near -40 dBm into 50 ohms as the blog Bryan
>>> posted above. Your setup may have 70-80 pF of load (~220 Ohms), if you
>> also
>>> measured the output voltage with a 10x probe you could work backwards to
>>> see how close you are to 50 Ohms output.
>>> 
>>> Roughly speaking it sounds like it will be in spec for amplitude, but to
>>> definitive you will have to load it with 50 Ohms as others have
>> suggested.
>>> Anything can work plug your bnc cable into a 50 Ohm input instrument
>> (even
>>> if its ancient) and measure the output voltage on the OCXO with a 10X
>>> probe. Or a near enough to 50 Ohm resistor as Tim suggested.
>> 
>> I obtained a (Pomona I think) 50 Ohm terminator/6db attenuator

The 6 db pad

>> and
>> repeated the measurements with the MV89A, connecting the RF and GND
>> pins through a BNC cable and the terminator directly into the Channel
>> 1 of the scope . I now get an amplitude on the scope FFT of -6.99 dB
>> measured with the cursors. According to the scope manual this is
>> referenced to 1 V rms so this would give a Vrms equivalent to -0.99 dB
>> i.e. 0.89 Volts. Assuming I've done the rest of the maths conversions
>> right, this would give a peak-to-peak value of 1.26 V and a power of
>> ~11 dBm.

The -11 dbm.

That sounds a lot more like -5 dbm than +7 dbm. This is a pretty typical output 
on a broken MV89.

Bob

>> (Assuming everything worked alright, I put the scope captures
>> up on our Owncloud at
>> https://cloud.lcogt.net/index.php/s/pHBV6EORT33ucjA - Channel 1 is the
>> MV89A, Channel 2 is the GPSDO output)
>> 
>> So I think this means my unit is behaving OK ?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Scott Stobbe]

If you used a 6db pad in conjunction with a 50 ohm termination you are spot
on. If you used a 6dB pad as a 50 ohm load, the effective load will be a
bit higher than 50 and the attenuation less than 6 dB. Either way sounds
like the output stage of your OCXO is in spec for 7 dBm into 50 ohms.

On Friday, 30 September 2016, Tim Lister  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Scott Stobbe  > wrote:
> > You are certainly no where near -40 dBm into 50 ohms as the blog Bryan
> > posted above. Your setup may have 70-80 pF of load (~220 Ohms), if you
> also
> > measured the output voltage with a 10x probe you could work backwards to
> > see how close you are to 50 Ohms output.
> >
> > Roughly speaking it sounds like it will be in spec for amplitude, but to
> > definitive you will have to load it with 50 Ohms as others have
> suggested.
> > Anything can work plug your bnc cable into a 50 Ohm input instrument
> (even
> > if its ancient) and measure the output voltage on the OCXO with a 10X
> > probe. Or a near enough to 50 Ohm resistor as Tim suggested.
>
> I obtained a (Pomona I think) 50 Ohm terminator/6db attenuator and
> repeated the measurements with the MV89A, connecting the RF and GND
> pins through a BNC cable and the terminator directly into the Channel
> 1 of the scope . I now get an amplitude on the scope FFT of -6.99 dB
> measured with the cursors. According to the scope manual this is
> referenced to 1 V rms so this would give a Vrms equivalent to -0.99 dB
> i.e. 0.89 Volts. Assuming I've done the rest of the maths conversions
> right, this would give a peak-to-peak value of 1.26 V and a power of
> ~11 dBm. (Assuming everything worked alright, I put the scope captures
> up on our Owncloud at
> https://cloud.lcogt.net/index.php/s/pHBV6EORT33ucjA - Channel 1 is the
> MV89A, Channel 2 is the GPSDO output)
>
> So I think this means my unit is behaving OK ?
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Scott Stobbe  wrote:
> You are certainly no where near -40 dBm into 50 ohms as the blog Bryan
> posted above. Your setup may have 70-80 pF of load (~220 Ohms), if you also
> measured the output voltage with a 10x probe you could work backwards to
> see how close you are to 50 Ohms output.
>
> Roughly speaking it sounds like it will be in spec for amplitude, but to
> definitive you will have to load it with 50 Ohms as others have suggested.
> Anything can work plug your bnc cable into a 50 Ohm input instrument (even
> if its ancient) and measure the output voltage on the OCXO with a 10X
> probe. Or a near enough to 50 Ohm resistor as Tim suggested.

I obtained a (Pomona I think) 50 Ohm terminator/6db attenuator and
repeated the measurements with the MV89A, connecting the RF and GND
pins through a BNC cable and the terminator directly into the Channel
1 of the scope . I now get an amplitude on the scope FFT of -6.99 dB
measured with the cursors. According to the scope manual this is
referenced to 1 V rms so this would give a Vrms equivalent to -0.99 dB
i.e. 0.89 Volts. Assuming I've done the rest of the maths conversions
right, this would give a peak-to-peak value of 1.26 V and a power of
~11 dBm. (Assuming everything worked alright, I put the scope captures
up on our Owncloud at
https://cloud.lcogt.net/index.php/s/pHBV6EORT33ucjA - Channel 1 is the
MV89A, Channel 2 is the GPSDO output)

So I think this means my unit is behaving OK ?

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Scott Stobbe]

You are certainly no where near -40 dBm into 50 ohms as the blog Bryan
posted above. Your setup may have 70-80 pF of load (~220 Ohms), if you also
measured the output voltage with a 10x probe you could work backwards to
see how close you are to 50 Ohms output.

Roughly speaking it sounds like it will be in spec for amplitude, but to
definitive you will have to load it with 50 Ohms as others have suggested.
Anything can work plug your bnc cable into a 50 Ohm input instrument (even
if its ancient) and measure the output voltage on the OCXO with a 10X
probe. Or a near enough to 50 Ohm resistor as Tim suggested.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom Miller <tmiller11...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > Just put a 47 or 56 ohm resistor from the output pin to ground and look
> at
> > it with a X10 scope probe.
> >
> > Do you get a sine wave? Over 1 volt pp?
>
> Hi Tom, Scott, I used about two feet of a (Pomona) coax to
> minigrabbers test lead and connected it direct to the scope and set
> the attenuation to 1x in the channel menus. I attached the
> minigrabbers to the RF and GND pins on the Morion since I didn't fancy
> holding a probe near the ~50 degree C Morion case.. I got a nice clean
> sine wave and the in-scope measurement routines reported 2.3 V
> peak-to-peak. I had 1V/div set so I could fit the OCXO and GPSDO
> outputs on the scope screen for comparison. (I haven't been able to
> get a screen capture yet as I need to find a small enough capacity USB
> key that will be supported by the scope)
>
> Tim
>
> >
> > Otherwise, you can open up the can and replace the output chip capacitor.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Scott Stobbe" <
> scott.j.sto...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> > <time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> >
> >
> >
> >> If you used a 10x probe (10 Meg || 10-15 pF)  you may have a pretty weak
> >> output, but if you could drive a meter of coax or a 1x probe to 800
> mVrms
> >> at 10 MHz your probably not too far off spec.
> >>
> >> 100 pF at 10 MHz is 160 Ohms.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >>> > Hi
> >>> >
> >>> > You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be >
> >>> > absolutely
> >>> > sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input.
> If
> >>> it was set
> >>> > to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..
> >>>
> >>> It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
> >>> changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
> >>> terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
> >>> there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
> >>> the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
> >>> for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
> >>> (potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
> >>> getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
> >>> it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
> >>> unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > Bob
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me
> >>> correct it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to
> >>> fail.
> >>> It can be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering
> >>> iron
> >>> to get the can open.
> >>> >>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> -=Bryan=-
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and
>

Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom Miller <tmiller11...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Just put a 47 or 56 ohm resistor from the output pin to ground and look at
> it with a X10 scope probe.
>
> Do you get a sine wave? Over 1 volt pp?

Hi Tom, Scott, I used about two feet of a (Pomona) coax to
minigrabbers test lead and connected it direct to the scope and set
the attenuation to 1x in the channel menus. I attached the
minigrabbers to the RF and GND pins on the Morion since I didn't fancy
holding a probe near the ~50 degree C Morion case.. I got a nice clean
sine wave and the in-scope measurement routines reported 2.3 V
peak-to-peak. I had 1V/div set so I could fit the OCXO and GPSDO
outputs on the scope screen for comparison. (I haven't been able to
get a screen capture yet as I need to find a small enough capacity USB
key that will be supported by the scope)

Tim

>
> Otherwise, you can open up the can and replace the output chip capacitor.
>
>
> Regards
>
> - Original Message - From: "Scott Stobbe" <scott.j.sto...@gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> <time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
>
>
>
>> If you used a 10x probe (10 Meg || 10-15 pF)  you may have a pretty weak
>> output, but if you could drive a meter of coax or a 1x probe to 800 mVrms
>> at 10 MHz your probably not too far off spec.
>>
>> 100 pF at 10 MHz is 160 Ohms.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>>> > Hi
>>> >
>>> > You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be >
>>> > absolutely
>>> > sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input. If
>>> it was set
>>> > to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..
>>>
>>> It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
>>> changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
>>> terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
>>> there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
>>> the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
>>> for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
>>> (potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
>>> getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
>>> it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
>>> unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Bob
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> >>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me
>>> correct it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to
>>> fail.
>>> It can be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering
>>> iron
>>> to get the can open.
>>> >>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -=Bryan=-
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
>>> >> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
>>> >> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
>>> >> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
>>> >> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
>>> >> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
>>> >> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
>>> >> the Uin or Uref pins).
>>> >>
>>> >> Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tom Miller]

Just put a 47 or 56 ohm resistor from the output pin to ground and look at 
it with a X10 scope probe.


Do you get a sine wave? Over 1 volt pp?

Otherwise, you can open up the can and replace the output chip capacitor.


Regards

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Stobbe" <scott.j.sto...@gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
<time-nuts@febo.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?



If you used a 10x probe (10 Meg || 10-15 pF)  you may have a pretty weak
output, but if you could drive a meter of coax or a 1x probe to 800 mVrms
at 10 MHz your probably not too far off spec.

100 pF at 10 MHz is 160 Ohms.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be 
> absolutely

> sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input. If
it was set
> to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..

It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
(potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.

Tim

>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister <lister...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me
correct it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to 
fail.
It can be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering 
iron

to get the can open.
>>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>>
>>> -=Bryan=-
>>>
>>
>> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
>> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
>> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
>> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
>> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
>> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
>> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
>> the Uin or Uref pins).
>>
>> Tim
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Scott Stobbe]

If you used a 10x probe (10 Meg || 10-15 pF)  you may have a pretty weak
output, but if you could drive a meter of coax or a 1x probe to 800 mVrms
at 10 MHz your probably not too far off spec.

100 pF at 10 MHz is 160 Ohms.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Tim Lister  wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be absolutely
> > sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input. If
> it was set
> > to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..
>
> It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
> changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
> terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
> there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
> the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
> for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
> (potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
> getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
> it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
> unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.
>
> Tim
>
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
> >>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me
> correct it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail.
> It can be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron
> to get the can open.
> >>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> >>>
> >>> -=Bryan=-
> >>>
> >>
> >> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
> >> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
> >> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
> >> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
> >> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
> >> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
> >> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
> >> the Uin or Uref pins).
> >>
> >> Tim
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Dave M]

From my experience, your best  and cheapest approach is to contact the 
seller and see if they will just send you a replacement.  If the seller 
won't cooperate, and insists that you return the item, just close the issue 
and try to repair it, or buy another one.   If you bought the MV89 from an 
Ebay seller, Ebay will require that you return the item by a traceable 
shipment, which will probably cost you more than the MV89 cost.


Sorry to say that, but that's just the dimmer side of buying unknown items 
from across the big pond.


Dave M


Tim Lister wrote:

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

Hi

You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be
absolutely
sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input.
If it was set to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..


It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
(potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.

Tim



Bob 


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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
>
> You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be absolutely
> sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input. If it was 
> set
> to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..

It seems that the scope is 1 MOhm input impedance and is not
changeable. I will have to see if we have any 50 Ohm in-line
terminators around that I can also borrow. Does anyone think that
there is any value in trying to pursue a return and replacement with
the ebay seller (being China, it's likely to be a long round-trip time
for both messages and parcels) or just live with it and move on
(potentially replacing the capacitor later if I get some way of
getting the casing open safely). From what Bob and others have said,
it seems that most of the MV89's have this problem so it seems
unlikely I would get a better one without a lot of trials.

Tim

>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
>>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it 
>>> is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be 
>>> fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the 
>>> can open.
>>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>>
>>> -=Bryan=-
>>>
>>
>> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
>> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
>> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
>> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
>> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
>> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
>> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
>> the Uin or Uref pins).
>>
>> Tim
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Scott Stobbe]

Your oscilloscope fft is plotting single-side amplitude spectrum in V/rtHz
(dBV/rtHz), this is in contrast to a spectrum analyzer which plots power
spectral density W/Hz or (dBm/Hz).

So -2.17 dBv is 10^(-2.17/20) = 0.779 Vrms comparing this to your Vpk-pk
measurement

2.3 / 2 / sqrt(2) = 0.813 Vrms

That's not to say a scope can't plot power spectrum if the load is
explicitly given or assumed 50 Ohms, but in general the plot is amplitude.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
> > May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
> it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
> be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
> the can open.
> > http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> >
> > -=Bryan=-
> >
>
> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
> the Uin or Uref pins).
>
> Tim
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

You have one of the many MV89A’s with an output problem. To be absolutely 
sure of the output, you need to have the scope set to 50 ohm input. If it was 
set
to Hi-Z, the output is likely even lower…..

Bob


> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:38 AM, Tim Lister  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it 
>> is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be 
>> fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the 
>> can open.
>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>> 
>> -=Bryan=-
>> 
> 
> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
> the Uin or Uref pins).
> 
> Tim
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Azelio Boriani]

Take care that the 'scope is not a 50 ohm load: the TDS2024B has not
the 50ohm/1Mohm input selection. So far I wasn't able to get from the
'scope FFT the same measurements that I get from a spectrum analyzer.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Tim Lister  wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it 
>> is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be 
>> fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the 
>> can open.
>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>
>> -=Bryan=-
>>
>
> I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
> it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
> 2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
> I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
> I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
> radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
> MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
> the Uin or Uref pins).
>
> Tim
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it 
> is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be 
> fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the 
> can open.
> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>
> -=Bryan=-
>

I managed to borrow a Tek TDS 2024B 200 MHz scope from work and hooked
it up to the output of my MV89A. I get a peak-to-peak measurement of
2.3 V which if I have converted it right is ~11 dBm ? Alternatively if
I turn on the FFT mode on the scope I get a peak value of -2.17 db if
I am driving the cursor mode correctly. With the 10 MHz from the
radioshackus GPSDO used for triggering, it takes ~18 seconds for the
MV89 waveform to drift 1 cycle (this is without anything connected on
the Uin or Uref pins).

Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bryan _]

http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/

-=Bryan=-

> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> From: a...@pcscons.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 15:09:41 -0700
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> 
> Hi Brian
> 
> which cap is failing in the MV89 oxco-s?
> 73
> 
> KJ6UHN
> 
> Alex
> 
> On 9/20/2016 2:41 PM, Bryan _ wrote:
> > Any tips on resoldering the can, special solder or flux required? Quite 
> > often they can be found for a good price on Ebay, from what I have read 
> > they are a  good OCXO minus the issue of the one particular cap failing.
> >
> > -=Bryan=-
> >   
> >> From: brayn...@gmail.com
> >> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:06:59 +0000
> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> >>
> >> Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
> >>  From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.
> >>
> >> I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
> >> nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
> >> flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
> >> capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
> >> remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
> >> repair.
> >>
> >> Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
> >> for the amount of heat involved.
> >> - Brian
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
> >>> it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
> >>> be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
> >>> the can open.
> >>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> >>>
> >>> -=Bryan=-
> >>>
> >>>> From: lister...@gmail.com
> >>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
> >>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> >>>>
> >>>> I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
> >>>> Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
> >>>> said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
> >>>> has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
> >>>> with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
> >>>> state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
> >>>> I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
> >>>> calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
> >>>> position.
> >>>>
> >>>> This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
> >>>> draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
> >>>> be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
> >>>> is normal ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Tim
> >>>> ___
> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to 
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> > 
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> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> > -
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13052 - Release Date: 09/20/16
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Dan Rae]

These have been discussed before at some length.  It is not just the 
output cap that is easily damaged by rough salvage efforts, which 
however are sadly common enough.  There is also a frequently seen 
problem of bad output spectra with a lot of non harmonic related stuff 
in the output, not a problem I felt capable of or interested in tracking 
down.  In my sample of two from China via eBay, one was good the other not.


Dan
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

There is an output coupling cap that is close to the output pin. It is not 
clear if it is 
failing or simply damaged by the salvage process. Best guess is that some fail, 
but 
far more are damaged parts. 

Bob

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 6:09 PM, Alex Pummer <a...@pcscons.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Brian
> 
> which cap is failing in the MV89 oxco-s?
> 73
> 
> KJ6UHN
> 
> Alex
> 
> On 9/20/2016 2:41 PM, Bryan _ wrote:
>> Any tips on resoldering the can, special solder or flux required? Quite 
>> often they can be found for a good price on Ebay, from what I have read they 
>> are a  good OCXO minus the issue of the one particular cap failing.
>> 
>> -=Bryan=-
>>  
>>> From: brayn...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:06:59 +
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
>>> 
>>> Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
>>> From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.
>>> 
>>> I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
>>> nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
>>> flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
>>> capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
>>> remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
>>> repair.
>>> 
>>> Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
>>> for the amount of heat involved.
>>> - Brian
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
>>>> it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
>>>> be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
>>>> the can open.
>>>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>>> 
>>>> -=Bryan=-
>>>> 
>>>>> From: lister...@gmail.com
>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
>>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
>>>>> Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
>>>>> said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
>>>>> has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
>>>>> with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
>>>>> state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
>>>>> I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
>>>>> calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
>>>>> position.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
>>>>> draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
>>>>> be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
>>>>> is normal ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Tim
>>>>> ___
>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>  
>> ___
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13052 - Release Date: 09/20/16
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

At least the MV89’s that I have bought have been mostly defective. The issues 
in them are many
and some of them are only apparent with fairly exotic testing There are a lot 
with defective output 
capacitors, but many of those also have other issues as well. Unless you have a 
lot of time, repairing 
them is not very cost effective. 

Basic gear to check one out:

Temperature test chamber to spot the miss-set temperature controllers
Phase noise test set to spot the various noisy stages
ADEV test to check the noisy temp controllers
Output level test / harmonics via spectrum analyzer

That’s just a quick list of the stuff I ran them past. Different ones failed 
different tests. 

Note: These are pretty good OCXO’s. The guys that make them are doing a good 
job. The problem 
is the salvage process they go through. You need to be pretty careful dealing 
with an OCXO. The
salvage guys are not careful at all. They damage far more parts than they save 
….

Bob


> On Sep 20, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> Any tips on resoldering the can, special solder or flux required? Quite often 
> they can be found for a good price on Ebay, from what I have read they are a  
> good OCXO minus the issue of the one particular cap failing.
> 
> -=Bryan=-
> 
>> From: brayn...@gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:06:59 +
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
>> 
>> Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
>> From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.
>> 
>> I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
>> nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
>> flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
>> capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
>> remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
>> repair.
>> 
>> Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
>> for the amount of heat involved.
>> - Brian
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
>>> it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
>>> be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
>>> the can open.
>>> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>>> 
>>> -=Bryan=-
>>> 
>>>> From: lister...@gmail.com
>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
>>>> 
>>>> I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
>>>> Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
>>>> said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
>>>> has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
>>>> with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
>>>> state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
>>>> I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
>>>> calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
>>>> position.
>>>> 
>>>> This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
>>>> draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
>>>> be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
>>>> is normal ?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Tim
>>>> ___
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Hal Murray]

bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz said:
>> It is possible to check the output level without an oscilloscope ?
> Only with a clasical (diode detector) RF probe (they're still available) or
> an  RF power meter. 

How about a diode, small cap, and a DC meter?  (and a few clip leads)


It won't give an accurate reading, but it should be good enough to detect a 
busted cap.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Alex Pummer]

Hi Brian

which cap is failing in the MV89 oxco-s?
73

KJ6UHN

Alex

On 9/20/2016 2:41 PM, Bryan _ wrote:

Any tips on resoldering the can, special solder or flux required? Quite often 
they can be found for a good price on Ebay, from what I have read they are a  
good OCXO minus the issue of the one particular cap failing.

-=Bryan=-
  

From: brayn...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:06:59 +
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
 From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.

I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
repair.

Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
for the amount of heat involved.
- Brian

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:


May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
the can open.
http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/

-=Bryan=-


From: lister...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
position.

This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
is normal ?

Cheers,
Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bryan _]

Any tips on resoldering the can, special solder or flux required? Quite often 
they can be found for a good price on Ebay, from what I have read they are a  
good OCXO minus the issue of the one particular cap failing.

-=Bryan=-
 
> From: brayn...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 20:06:59 +
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> 
> Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
> From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.
> 
> I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
> nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
> flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
> capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
> remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
> repair.
> 
> Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
> for the amount of heat involved.
> - Brian
> 
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> > May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
> > it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
> > be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
> > the can open.
> > http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> >
> > -=Bryan=-
> >
> > > From: lister...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
> > > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > > Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> > >
> > > I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
> > > Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
> > > said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
> > > has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
> > > with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
> > > state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
> > > I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
> > > calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
> > > position.
> > >
> > > This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
> > > draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
> > > be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
> > > is normal ?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Tim
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> > ___
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> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bruce Griffiths]

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 01:53:49 PM Tim Lister wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  
wrote:
> > May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me 
correct
> > it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It
> > can be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron
> > to get the can open. http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
> 
> It is possible to check the output level without an oscilloscope ? (I
> don't have one yet). It seemed to trigger the Frequency/Stop input of
> my 5370B with the Stop level set to Preset and divide by 1. I have
> access to a HP3478 bench DMM but I'm not sure whether that will give a
> correct level on AC volts at 10 MHz.
> Thanks for the link on potential repairs, I think that will need brave
> pills before I try torching anything open.
> 
> Tim
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> instructions there.
Only with a clasical (diode detector) RF probe (they're still available) or an 
RF power meter.


Bruce

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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Bryan _  wrote:
> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it 
> is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be 
> fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the 
> can open.
> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/

It is possible to check the output level without an oscilloscope ? (I
don't have one yet). It seemed to trigger the Frequency/Stop input of
my 5370B with the Stop level set to Preset and divide by 1. I have
access to a HP3478 bench DMM but I'm not sure whether that will give a
correct level on AC volts at 10 MHz.
Thanks for the link on potential repairs, I think that will need brave
pills before I try torching anything open.

Tim
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Brian M]

Yes. This low output due to capacitor failure is a very common failure.
>From the last set of MV89a I got on the bay, all had this issue.

I had good luck opening mine with a hot air rework station with a small
nozzle to blow the solder seal away. A bit of careful prying with a thin
flat screwdriver while it is still hot to pop the bottom from the case. The
capacitor is easy to get to once the outer can is removed. Hot air to
remove. Then tweezers and a fine point soldering pencil made for an easy
repair.

Obviously, be very careful and be sure to work on an appropriate surface
for the amount of heat involved.
- Brian

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 12:57 PM Bryan _ <bpl...@outlook.com> wrote:

> May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct
> it is very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can
> be fixed but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get
> the can open.
> http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
>
> -=Bryan=-
>
> > From: lister...@gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> >
> > I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
> > Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
> > said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
> > has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
> > with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
> > state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
> > I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
> > calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
> > position.
> >
> > This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
> > draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
> > be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
> > is normal ?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bryan _]

May also want to check the output amplitude. If memory serves me correct it is 
very common for a capacitor inside this model number to fail. It can be fixed 
but requires a torch or a pretty heavy duty soldering iron to get the can open. 
http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/

-=Bryan=-
 
> From: lister...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2016 14:31:06 -0700
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?
> 
> I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
> Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
> said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
> has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
> with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
> state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
> I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
> calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
> position.
> 
> This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
> draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
> be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
> is normal ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
  
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Re: [time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Compared to some MV89’s that’s a bit cold….It certainly is not alarmingly 
hot for an OCXO case. 

Bob

> On Sep 19, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Tim Lister  wrote:
> 
> I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
> Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
> said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
> has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
> with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
> state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
> I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
> calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
> position.
> 
> This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
> draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
> be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
> is normal ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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[time-nuts] Normal operating specs of a Morion MV89?

[Tim Lister]

I recently ordered and received what claims to be a 2007 vintage
Morion MV89 from ebay (I say claimed as that what the auction item
said, but my unit is missing the identifying label on the top and just
has '2007 MV89A' written on the side in marker). I've powered it up
with a bench power supply at 12V and it's drawing 390mA at steady
state. I measured the case temperature with a ThermaPen Mk4 (not often
I get to combine the hobbies of bbq and timenuts...) which is
calibrated to +/-0.7F to be about 111F, varying somewhat with
position.

This seems pretty hot - Is this normal ? The datasheet says it should
draw <350mA when at steady state but doesn't say what temp it should
be at. Does anyone else have info on their version to see whether this
is normal ?

Cheers,
Tim
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