Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
On 3/19/2014 8:26 AM, James Robbins wrote: Thanks for everyone's help here. I have done some further sleuthing. I have a second 53132A which has a 3.0GHz Channel 3. So, I switched the new channel 3 board into the old 53132A and it reads properly. Then, I switched the old 3.0GHz Channel 3 board into the new 53132A and it also read four times (4x) the input frequency. From this I conclude that the issue is with the new 53132A counter box and not the channel 3 board. Then I powered up each counter and measured at the pins on the ribbon cable connector at the Channel 3 board to the main board on both the new and old counters (channel 3 boards plugged in and powered). They each read the same voltages and/or grounds (pin1 = 2v; 2,5,7,9,10 = ground; 3,8 = +12v; 4 = -12v with numbering based on 1 shown on channel board). Someone suggested that maybe the new main board had been set up for the 12.5 or 6GHz channel 3 but was sold without that channel. The idea was that such a main board would cause a 4x reading. To my mind this is opposite to what I would think in that the division ratio for 12.5 or 6GHz would be higher than the ratio for the 3.0GHz board and would result in a fraction of the frequency rather than 4x frequency. Of course, it could be a FW mod (rather than a HW mod) which has been applied also. Any other thoughts are much appreciated. 73, Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Jim, I think the problem is with the Ch3 board as the issue migrates to the other counter with the board. Also the know good board works properly with the first counter that has issues with that board. I don't think that it would be a firmware issue as the board from the working counter works properly in the other counter with the non-working board. Hope this helps Randy, KI6WAS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
No, the suggestion makes perfect sense. A 12 GHz input board likely has an internal prescaler with a division ratio that is 4 times that of a 3 GHz input board, in order to have the main counter running at the same internal frequency. For example, a 3 GHz input might divide by 32 while a 12 GHz input might divide by 128, so that both feed a signal in the 0 to 100 MHz range to the main counter circuits. (And the 5 GHz input might divide by 64...) When the firmware goes to display what the main counter measured, it has to multiply by the prescaler ratio to obtain the original input frequency. If this multiply happens on the main board (e.g. in a FPGA or CPU), it needs to be told which prescaler division ratio was used. If the firmware thinks the 12 GHz input is installed instead of the 3 GHz input, it will multiply by 128 instead of 32, and the displayed frequency will be 4 times the actual frequency (since the prescaler actually divided by 32). (The prescaler division ratios may not be 32 and 128; the actual values don't matter. As long as the 12 GHz option uses 4 times the prescaler divisor of the 3 GHz option, the display error will be a factor of 4). - Dave On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:26 AM, James Robbins jsrobb...@earthlink.net wrote: Someone suggested that maybe the new main board had been set up for the 12.5 or 6GHz channel 3 but was sold without that channel. The idea was that such a main board would cause a 4x reading. To my mind this is opposite to what I would think in that the division ratio for 12.5 or 6GHz would be higher than the ratio for the 3.0GHz board and would result in a fraction of the frequency rather than 4x frequency. and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A Counter
On 2014-03-19 16:00, James Robbins wrote: I think I may need to clarify my prior posting. Both old and new Channel 3 boards work fine (and read correctly) in my older 53132A counter. Both old and new Channel 3 boards fail to work properly in (and read 4x actual) the newer 53132A counter. So I think the problem is in the newer main 53132A box. As far as my understanding of the division ratios, I understand my error now. Thank you Dave (and some others). I have done some further testing and discovered one of HP/Agilent's little tricks. The main counter board channel 3 ribbon cable socket pin numbering does not conform to the channel 3 board ribbon cable socket numbering (they are crisscrossed). (I can supply the shifted numbers if anyone is interested.) However, my search for suspected unwanted zero ohm resistors left in the new box (to set the counter up for a 5 or 12.5GHz channel 3) has resulted in no joy and only a large headache and sore eyes:( Thanks everyone for trying to help here. It was supposed to be a plug and play addition to my counter. So much for the plan. Presumably you looked for obvious changes between the main boards? Have you checked the FW ROM markings or could you dump and compare the ROM contents? Thought of trying a straight (uncrossed) ribbon cable between the channel 3 board and the newer counter? That's the kind of change that might be done to reduce costs on newer model upgrades requiring a factory mod. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A Counter
Hi Jim: I've seen a similar problem when one end of a ribbon cable connector is soldered to the wrong side of a PCB. Maybe you can unsolder a connector and install it on the other side? Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html James Robbins wrote: I think I may need to clarify my prior posting. Both old and new Channel 3 boards work fine (and read correctly) in my older 53132A counter. Both old and new Channel 3 boards fail to work properly in (and read 4x actual) the newer 53132A counter. So I think the problem is in the newer main 53132A box. As far as my understanding of the division ratios, I understand my error now. Thank you Dave (and some others). I have done some further testing and discovered one of HP/Agilent's little tricks. The main counter board channel 3 ribbon cable socket pin numbering does not conform to the channel 3 board ribbon cable socket numbering (they are crisscrossed). (I can supply the shifted numbers if anyone is interested.) However, my search for suspected unwanted zero ohm resistors left in the new box (to set the counter up for a 5 or 12.5GHz channel 3) has resulted in no joy and only a large headache and sore eyes:( Thanks everyone for trying to help here. It was supposed to be a plug and play addition to my counter. So much for the plan. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A Counter
Jim the 5 and 12.8GHz modules are the same part and the software/firmware set the upper freq limit. I assume at least the 12.8 GHz option must be unlocked/accessed most likely through the key pad. The 5GHz may be plug and play. Thomas Knox From: jsrobb...@earthlink.net Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:00:09 -0400 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A Counter I think I may need to clarify my prior posting. Both old and new Channel 3 boards work fine (and read correctly) in my older 53132A counter. Both old and new Channel 3 boards fail to work properly in (and read 4x actual) the newer 53132A counter. So I think the problem is in the newer main 53132A box. As far as my understanding of the division ratios, I understand my error now. Thank you Dave (and some others). I have done some further testing and discovered one of HP/Agilent's little tricks. The main counter board channel 3 ribbon cable socket pin numbering does not conform to the channel 3 board ribbon cable socket numbering (they are crisscrossed). (I can supply the shifted numbers if anyone is interested.) However, my search for suspected unwanted zero ohm resistors left in the new box (to set the counter up for a 5 or 12.5GHz channel 3) has resulted in no joy and only a large headache and sore eyes:( Thanks everyone for trying to help here. It was supposed to be a plug and play addition to my counter. So much for the plan. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A Counter
FYI: Here is the link to the 53132 CLIP. http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/redirector.jspx?action=refcname=AGILENT _EDITORIALckey=1119025lc=engcc=USnfr=-33788.536880944.00 It wasn't there last I checked. John K1AE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
On 2014-03-18 12:19, James Robbins wrote: I hope this is not too OT. I have acquired a 3.0GHz original Channel 3 board for my Agilent 53132A counter. When installed, it reads four times (4x) the actual frequency. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with such an installation and can point me to some setup item or zero ohm resistor I'm supposed to install. All that the manual says is to have it done by the factory. That will cost me more than the board itself. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR According to: http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/53132A-04A.pdf early serial numbers may need updated firmware. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
Hi Jim According to the schematic in the 53132A service manual and the datasheet for the MB510 prescaler, the option 030 board is hard wired for a division ratio of 1/128, and that's the lowest division ratio shown for that prescaler. I've not fitted one of the original HP boards but have used similar boards from a third party supplier and they just dropped straight in. As a quick first check I would suggest monitoring the output from the MB510, either on the 030 board or at the ribbon cable, just to confirm that the board is dividing as expected. There is an HP Service Note 53132A-04A that discusses the firmware requirements for updating which also might be worth checking just in case that's an issue. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 18/03/2014 18:20:09 GMT Standard Time, jsrobb...@earthlink.net writes: I hope this is not too OT. I have acquired a 3.0GHz original Channel 3 board for my Agilent 53132A counter. When installed, it reads four times (4x) the actual frequency. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with such an installation and can point me to some setup item or zero ohm resistor I'm supposed to install. All that the manual says is to have it done by the factory. That will cost me more than the board itself. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listi nfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
I think the solution will be in the firmware. It must be factory set so default is the 5GHz C channel option. The 12GHz option is the same part as the 5GHz sampler with a different firmware lock. Best Wishes; Thomas Knox From: jsrobb...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:19:14 -0400 Subject: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter I hope this is not too OT. I have acquired a 3.0GHz original Channel 3 board for my Agilent 53132A counter. When installed, it reads four times (4x) the actual frequency. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with such an installation and can point me to some setup item or zero ohm resistor I'm supposed to install. All that the manual says is to have it done by the factory. That will cost me more than the board itself. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
Further checking the service manual indicates that the main board treats pins 9 and 10 of the ribbon cable as CH3code1 and CH3 code2 respectively so perhaps it's using these as identifiers and it might be worth checking that those signals are as expected. The prescaler board schematic shows 9 as being connected to +12V and 10 to ground. If you don't have access to the component level service manual let me know and I'll send you a copy. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 18/03/2014 18:20:09 GMT Standard Time, jsrobb...@earthlink.net writes: I hope this is not too OT. I have acquired a 3.0GHz original Channel 3 board for my Agilent 53132A counter. When installed, it reads four times (4x) the actual frequency. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with such an installation and can point me to some setup item or zero ohm resistor I'm supposed to install. All that the manual says is to have it done by the factory. That will cost me more than the board itself. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3.0GHz Channel 3 installation in Agilent 53132A counter
Jim, You were looking for a 0 Ohm resistor. Sometimes HP did not, in fact, insert a 0 Ohm resistor component in later revs of some PCBs. They just added the default 0 Ohmers in etch, between two vias. Then, if someone wanted to open the link, the etch was cut. I guess it saved a couple of pennies. -John === Further checking the service manual indicates that the main board treats pins 9 and 10 of the ribbon cable as CH3code1 and CH3 code2 respectively so perhaps it's using these as identifiers and it might be worth checking that those signals are as expected. The prescaler board schematic shows 9 as being connected to +12V and 10 to ground. If you don't have access to the component level service manual let me know and I'll send you a copy. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 18/03/2014 18:20:09 GMT Standard Time, jsrobb...@earthlink.net writes: I hope this is not too OT. I have acquired a 3.0GHz original Channel 3 board for my Agilent 53132A counter. When installed, it reads four times (4x) the actual frequency. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with such an installation and can point me to some setup item or zero ohm resistor I'm supposed to install. All that the manual says is to have it done by the factory. That will cost me more than the board itself. Many thanks. Jim Robbins N1JR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
