Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:45:27 +0200 Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, the problem is that I don't have anything running NTP... I'm searching for a packet dump: I should use it to quickly develop the response for a possible Lantronix XPort implementation. Feel free to use the attached one. If anyone needs more ntp data, please let me know Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ntp_tcpdump.pcap Description: application/vnd.tcpdump.pcap ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
OK, thank you. On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:45:27 +0200 Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Yes, the problem is that I don't have anything running NTP... I'm searching for a packet dump: I should use it to quickly develop the response for a possible Lantronix XPort implementation. Feel free to use the attached one. If anyone needs more ntp data, please let me know Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
And don't forget those NTP people. BTW, is there an NTP packet exchange example? That is, what is the typical conversation between an NTP server and a client? On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: t...@leapsecond.com said: BTW, the best time frequency glossary on the web so far is at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/glossary.htm There's also an index at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-index.htm That's a good example of a point I didn't make last time... Official sites like NIST usually don't do a good job of linking out to other sites. When they do, they often go to official or manufacturers sites rather than informal/amateur sites. That's not bad, but it might not help newbies find places like time-nuts when they are trying to get started. I should have mentioned that there is nothing wrong with having multiple FAQ/Wiki sites run by amateurs. The trick is that they usually cross-link to each other. If google (or dumb luck) takes you to one, that usually helps you find the others. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
I already have a number of time-nuts related wiki pages on my site, anybody is welcome to start a new one. It is open to anyone. Didier KO4BB www.ko4bb.com Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker. -Original Message- From: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners I started a small Wiki for the Plane Plotter program, using the free pbworks site: http://planeplotter.pbworks.com The site is easy to use, and you can have multiple authors and as many readers as you like. I could start a Wiki for Time Nuts, if you like, or anyone else could start one of course. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
Dear Azelio, Count on me for that. I am doing my thesis in network synchronization and NTP will be the main course. I will be posting a brief of the thesis and all related information in my soon to be published web page. I dream NTP now… Regards, Edgardo Molina Dirección IPTEL www.iptel.net.mx T : 55 55 55202444 M : 04455 20501854 Piensa en Bits SA de CV Información anexa: CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION Este mensaje tiene carácter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electrónico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier propósito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias. NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you. On Oct 22, 2012, at 3:14 AM, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: And don't forget those NTP people. BTW, is there an NTP packet exchange example? That is, what is the typical conversation between an NTP server and a client? On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: t...@leapsecond.com said: BTW, the best time frequency glossary on the web so far is at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/glossary.htm There's also an index at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-index.htm That's a good example of a point I didn't make last time... Official sites like NIST usually don't do a good job of linking out to other sites. When they do, they often go to official or manufacturers sites rather than informal/amateur sites. That's not bad, but it might not help newbies find places like time-nuts when they are trying to get started. I should have mentioned that there is nothing wrong with having multiple FAQ/Wiki sites run by amateurs. The trick is that they usually cross-link to each other. If google (or dumb luck) takes you to one, that usually helps you find the others. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
azelio.bori...@screen.it said: And don't forget those NTP people. BTW, is there an NTP packet exchange example? That is, what is the typical conversation between an NTP server and a client? What are you looking for? The wikipedia page is a good introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol NTP is a big sub-set of time-nut activity with an active community of geeks. I think any time-nut documentation should point to other info rather than duplicate their activity. http://www.ntp.org/ There is also PTP, IEEE 1588 The basic NTP conversation is the typical client/server exchange of a pair of UDP packets. tcpdump will decode the contents so you can easily use it to get a quick introduction. (That's assuming you have a system running NTP that already generates the packets.) -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
t...@leapsecond.com said: I should also mention the choice to have John Ackermann host the list (free) along with all the TAPR mailing lists has proven itself again and again. Few entities on the web have been this solid for a decade. A couple of times a year we have trouble with S/N ratio, but those tend to be short lived. Many thanks to Tom and John. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
Yes, the problem is that I don't have anything running NTP... I'm searching for a packet dump: I should use it to quickly develop the response for a possible Lantronix XPort implementation. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: azelio.bori...@screen.it said: And don't forget those NTP people. BTW, is there an NTP packet exchange example? That is, what is the typical conversation between an NTP server and a client? What are you looking for? The wikipedia page is a good introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol NTP is a big sub-set of time-nut activity with an active community of geeks. I think any time-nut documentation should point to other info rather than duplicate their activity. http://www.ntp.org/ There is also PTP, IEEE 1588 The basic NTP conversation is the typical client/server exchange of a pair of UDP packets. tcpdump will decode the contents so you can easily use it to get a quick introduction. (That's assuming you have a system running NTP that already generates the packets.) -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On 10/21/2012 12:39 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:02:40 +0200 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Ah, but this is Time-Nuts.. are you sure you don't need 1E-13 performance? You may not think you do today, but inevitably, the horrible uncertainty in your time stamps will gnaw at your innermost soul, and pretty soon, you'll be building choke rings, wrapping your $6 receiver in an oven, cobbling together some weird combination of surplus parts. Hear! Hear! As time-nuts, we try to get the best possible performance for least possible cost. Then again, we oldies should recall that new-comers still need to get started. We should give them advice that gives them a good start while not spending too much money on a solution which isn't sufficiently expandable into the future. We should have a wiki for FAQ and references. Yes, definitly. Often it's very simple information one is lacking. Like: where to find such information :-) KO4BB's site is definitly worth a look, even if a bit overwhelming and not clearly structured (especially if you dont know what you are looking for). A list of OCXOs and their benefits/drawbacks, like the list Luciano (aka timeok) send a couple of weeks back is also a great help. Or Vig's presentation on quarz resonators (if you haven't read it, you should!) Then a list of sources for time/frequency refrences and how to aquire them (like GPS - GPSDO, DCF77/WWVB receivers etc). But i don't know of any document that does this... And something that glues all of the above together... The rest is just a mater of asking and finding the right documenation. :-) Attila Kinali I would better appreciate that list of information if I confidently / specifically knew how to access any of it. Any chance you have links to the helpful information-type things you just listed? I feel almost insulted by my ignorance right about now :( ...Like maybe I'm missing something from earlier in the mailing list. I was following the thread with // Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock) // and now I don't know where this thread actually started. Am I responding to the original post? Still waking up / confused by first post I'm responding to today --Sarah ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 12:48:43 -0400 Sarah White kuze...@gmail.com wrote: I would better appreciate that list of information if I confidently / specifically knew how to access any of it. Any chance you have links to the helpful information-type things you just listed? I feel almost insulted by my ignorance right about now :( Blub... sorry, i didn't think far enough. KO4BB site can be found at http://ko4bb.com/ it contains lots of information and tons of manuals related to time-nuts, specifically http://ko4bb.com/Timing/ and http://ko4bb.com/manuals/ The later contains also an asortment of other things than manuals. Eg Vig's Tutorial: http://ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/John_Vig_Tutorials_on_Crystal_Oscillators (The different revisions have slightly different contents, the pdfs are created from the ppts using libreoffice) The OCXO comparison table can be found in the mailinglist archives: http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-October/070958.html For the rest... Well, i don't know where to find that stuff in a beginner friendly way. I've read a ton of papers, proceedings and books.. not to mention mails on this list to get even a small understanding on what is going on in time-nuts land. Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On 10/21/2012 06:39 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:02:40 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Ah, but this is Time-Nuts.. are you sure you don't need 1E-13 performance? You may not think you do today, but inevitably, the horrible uncertainty in your time stamps will gnaw at your innermost soul, and pretty soon, you'll be building choke rings, wrapping your $6 receiver in an oven, cobbling together some weird combination of surplus parts. Hear! Hear! As time-nuts, we try to get the best possible performance for least possible cost. Then again, we oldies should recall that new-comers still need to get started. We should give them advice that gives them a good start while not spending too much money on a solution which isn't sufficiently expandable into the future. We should have a wiki for FAQ and references. Yes, definitly. Often it's very simple information one is lacking. Like: where to find such information :-) KO4BB's site is definitly worth a look, even if a bit overwhelming and not clearly structured (especially if you dont know what you are looking for). A list of OCXOs and their benefits/drawbacks, like the list Luciano (aka timeok) send a couple of weeks back is also a great help. Or Vig's presentation on quarz resonators (if you haven't read it, you should!) Then a list of sources for time/frequency refrences and how to aquire them (like GPS - GPSDO, DCF77/WWVB receivers etc). But i don't know of any document that does this... And something that glues all of the above together... The rest is just a mater of asking and finding the right documenation. :-) Yes. There is a gazzilion of material out there, but it is not very well organized and also, people spend a lot of time on one or more specialization and as things progresses it can be a bad thing to use too old material. Still, also getting this old material is also very good, if put into a fuller context. Many of the sites has the style of one person writing down his stuff. Doing it the wiki style (mediawiki recommended) has the benefit that topics can be touched on and then have the material develop as more knowledge comes in from several contributors. I'm happy to host the wiki myself, and I can set it up on two different infrastructures. Having written on Wikipedia (see the Allan Deviation article which I essentially rewrote from scratch, it's now 18 pages long), I think that I have the experience to see the benefit of this mutual contribution mechanism. If we agree that a wiki should be set up and be used, then let's run with it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
I started a small Wiki for the Plane Plotter program, using the free pbworks site: http://planeplotter.pbworks.com The site is easy to use, and you can have multiple authors and as many readers as you like. I could start a Wiki for Time Nuts, if you like, or anyone else could start one of course. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
Dear Sarah, On 10/21/2012 06:48 PM, Sarah White wrote: I would better appreciate that list of information if I confidently / specifically knew how to access any of it. Any chance you have links to the helpful information-type things you just listed? I feel almost insulted by my ignorance right about now :( ...Like maybe I'm missing something from earlier in the mailing list. I was following the thread with // Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock) // and now I don't know where this thread actually started. Am I responding to the original post? Still waking up / confused by first post I'm responding to today --Sarah There have been so much material passing through the list, that reading up on it would be a large effort. However, the point of a Wiki-based FAQ/BCP is to speed the learning up for folks like you. It would be good if list emails/threads could be linked in as references in articles. This also helps to give credit where credit is due. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:08:25 +0200 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: I'm happy to host the wiki myself, and I can set it up on two different infrastructures. That sounds like a good idea. How about setting up a specific domain for this? Like time-nuts.org.. Uhm.. that's already taken.. by a certain TVB :-) Tom: Would you mind if we would use [www|wiki].time-nuts.org for this purpose? I can also provide DNS servers and other infrastructure if needed. Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
If Magnus graciously offered to host the Wiki, I could also provide a mirror in my company's infrastructure. The bigger and stronger the Wiki, the better. Cheers! Edgardo Molina Dirección IPTEL www.iptel.net.mx T : 55 55 55202444 M : 04455 20501854 Piensa en Bits SA de CV Información anexa: CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION Este mensaje tiene carácter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electrónico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier propósito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias. NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you. On Oct 21, 2012, at 12:20 PM, Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch wrote: On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:08:25 +0200 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: I'm happy to host the wiki myself, and I can set it up on two different infrastructures. That sounds like a good idea. How about setting up a specific domain for this? Like time-nuts.org.. Uhm.. that's already taken.. by a certain TVB :-) Tom: Would you mind if we would use [www|wiki].time-nuts.org for this purpose? I can also provide DNS servers and other infrastructure if needed. Attila Kinali -- There is no secret ingredient -- Po, Kung Fu Panda ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On 10/21/2012 1:13 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Dear Sarah, On 10/21/2012 06:48 PM, Sarah White wrote: I would better appreciate that list of information if I confidently / specifically knew how to access any of it. Any chance you have links to the helpful information-type things you just listed? I feel almost insulted by my ignorance right about now :( ...Like maybe I'm missing something from earlier in the mailing list. I was following the thread with // Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock) // and now I don't know where this thread actually started. Am I responding to the original post? Still waking up / confused by first post I'm responding to today --Sarah There have been so much material passing through the list, that reading up on it would be a large effort. However, the point of a Wiki-based FAQ/BCP is to speed the learning up for folks like you. It would be good if list emails/threads could be linked in as references in articles. This also helps to give credit where credit is due. Cheers, Magnus (quote) It would be good if list emails/threads could be linked (end) Works fine for me: http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg52589.html ^is it considered meta that I quoted a post, then linked to it? lol ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
I could start a Wiki for Time Nuts, if you like, or anyone else could start one of course. Don't forget that Didier already has a wiki for precision timing: http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
I have been able to learn quite a lot thru focused key word searches of the mailing list archives. http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/ Just for grins I tried the phrases Beginner Basic Question and FAQ and got some usefull hits. Before buying various pieces of gear searching the archives was helpfull to me. Hope this information is usefull. Regards Mark Spencer ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
On 10/21/2012 07:46 PM, Sarah White wrote: On 10/21/2012 1:13 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Dear Sarah, On 10/21/2012 06:48 PM, Sarah White wrote: I would better appreciate that list of information if I confidently / specifically knew how to access any of it. Any chance you have links to the helpful information-type things you just listed? I feel almost insulted by my ignorance right about now :( ...Like maybe I'm missing something from earlier in the mailing list. I was following the thread with // Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock) // and now I don't know where this thread actually started. Am I responding to the original post? Still waking up / confused by first post I'm responding to today --Sarah There have been so much material passing through the list, that reading up on it would be a large effort. However, the point of a Wiki-based FAQ/BCP is to speed the learning up for folks like you. It would be good if list emails/threads could be linked in as references in articles. This also helps to give credit where credit is due. Cheers, Magnus (quote) It would be good if list emails/threads could be linked (end) Works fine for me: http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg52589.html ^is it considered meta that I quoted a post, then linked to it? lol Hehe. I *do* know it's linkable, but it is an idea for a concept on the Wiki. It was rather a proposal for a good practice when writing articles on the time-nuts wiki. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
A bit OT, no way OT, but I found Bev as useful as tits on a boar hog. Planeplotter was trying doing illegal memory acesses and Bev wouldn't provide a copy of the program with debugging enabled. Worse yet, after paying for the program, my credit card got hacked all over France. Planeplotter is easily the worst software I ever bought. Yeah I tested it, but it didn't crash until all the features were enabled. Oh, and Bev keeps your money if the software works or not. Further, you can't sell your license since it would cost Bev a new sale. Now Planeplotter is timenut related since it requires accurate time from the host feeding a server. Dave's NTP analyser allowed me to get my timing as good as it could get. -Original Message- From: David J Taylor david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:10:46 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners I started a small Wiki for the Plane Plotter program, using the free pbworks site: http://planeplotter.pbworks.com The site is easy to use, and you can have multiple authors and as many readers as you like. I could start a Wiki for Time Nuts, if you like, or anyone else could start one of course. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
I try to keep the Time-Nuts intro page (www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm) current. If there are omissions, please let me know. If you are a newcomer to the list, please see the resources there. There is no shortage of information on the internet. In particular there are some extremely good online tutorials for experts and newcomers to the field of time frequency. For anyone serious, there are also a number of excellent books that are well worth borrowing or buying. What is needed is probably not another wiki or even a FAQ, but for people, especially newcomers, to contribute to the list by documenting what they have done, so that the next person to join the list can learn from their experience. For example, with this thread in mind, if Edgardo were to document all he learns about his 5065A or Sarah were to take the time to document everything she learns about her TBolt -- that's how the knowledge-base grows. It doesn't often matter to me if that information resides on personal servers, or a KO4BB wiki, or as occasional postings to the time-nuts mailing list. Google does the work of finding it regardless. The key point is that people take the time to document and share what they've learned so google has something interesting to find. /tvb www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
t...@leapsecond.com said: It doesn't often matter to me if that information resides on personal servers, or a KO4BB wiki, or as occasional postings to the time-nuts mailing list. Google does the work of finding it regardless. The key point is that people take the time to document and share what they've learned so google has something interesting to find. My 2 cents... It really helps if there is a FAQ or Wiki type starter page. It doesn't have to say everything. It should have many links to other web pages. The idea is some place that is reasonably high-quality where you can get started. Sure, google will find stuff, but you have to know what to search for. A FAQ/Wiki starting page tells you the terms you might want to search for. For example, if you were a beginner time-nut, how would you know that you should search for TBolt or Thunerbolt and that if you searched for Thunderbolt you needed to add Trimble or you would get a lot of other junk? A glossary can also be a wonderful resource. Again, it can have links to other info, but a quick description tells you whether that is a term you are interested in and/or how it fits in. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
Hi Hal, Good suggestions. Let me consider them. BTW, the best time frequency glossary on the web so far is at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/glossary.htm There's also an index at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-index.htm Another newcomer must-read is this excellent TF tutorial by NIST: http://tf.nist.gov/phase/Properties/main.htm Properties of Oscillator Signals and Measurement Methods FAQ - What is frequency stability? - How do I measure frequency stability? - How do I analyze the data? - What is an example of time domain signal processing and analysis? - What is spectrum analysis? - What are the problems with digitizing the data? - How do I translate between frequency domain and time domain? - What causes noise in a signal? Thanks, /tvb Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: It really helps if there is a FAQ or Wiki type starter page. It doesn't have to say everything. It should have many links to other web pages. The idea is some place that is reasonably high-quality where you can get started. Sure, google will find stuff, but you have to know what to search for. A FAQ/Wiki starting page tells you the terms you might want to search for. For example, if you were a beginner time-nut, how would you know that you should search for TBolt or Thunerbolt and that if you searched for Thunderbolt you needed to add Trimble or you would get a lot of other junk? A glossary can also be a wonderful resource. Again, it can have links to other info, but a quick description tells you whether that is a term you are interested in and/or how it fits in. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners
How about setting up a specific domain for this? Like time-nuts.org.. Uhm.. that's already taken.. by a certain TVB :-) Tom: Would you mind if we would use [www|wiki].time-nuts.org for this purpose? I can also provide DNS servers and other infrastructure if needed. Attila Kinali Yes, I keep a number of time-nuts domains as well as LinkedIn and Twitter id's just in case, and to protect the brand. So far we haven't decided to exploit them. (You're welcome to invite yourself to the linkedin group if you want a nice photo of a cesium clock along with your other professional affiliations). Every year or two I send out email soliciting suggestions about the future of the group in general, or the mailing list in particular. There are plans for time-nuts.org, TBA. Send me email off-line. The support for changing things has not been strong. For the most part the mailing list format has served us extremely well, and google does the rest. It's a good balance between informal and formal, between static and dynamic information. We've considered everything from IRC and twitter to wikis and formal papers. I should also mention the choice to have John Ackermann host the list (free) along with all the TAPR mailing lists has proven itself again and again. Few entities on the web have been this solid for a decade. A couple of times a year we have trouble with S/N ratio, but those tend to be short lived. The best rule is that if on average you contribute more A than Q the quality of the mailing list grows. We are fortunate that few people use the list as a replacement for google. Sending out a good question to a thousand people by personal email is a privilege not to be taken for granted. Also someone taking time out of their day to carefully answer a question or submitting the results of hours or days or weeks of bench work also needs to be appreciated and respected. The mailing list has been good to both sides of the equation. If you have some fresh ideas for the list or the group, feel free to contact me or John off-line. In particular I'm interested in some group projects: both equipment/construction projects and some automated information exchange projects. I would also be interested in a more mobile-friendly forum as an alternative, or at least a mirror of, the mailing list. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
Dear Tom, I am documenting my experiences with the 5065A. Please count on me for that and for sharing it. This week as I mentioned before, my measuring capabilities will grow exponentially. Well at least for me and my sad current situation. I hope soon, you will start seeing graphs and data as a result of my experiments. Fingers crossed. Also, a personal lab domain name has been purchased. Sooner or later, Edgardo's lab web page will be online for all to visit. I hope you will find it interesting. Thank you. Kind Regards, Edgardo Molina Dirección IPTEL www.iptel.net.mx T : 55 55 55202444 M : 04455 20501854 Piensa en Bits SA de CV Información anexa: CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION Este mensaje tiene carácter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electrónico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier propósito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias. NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you. On Oct 21, 2012, at 6:46 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: I try to keep the Time-Nuts intro page (www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm) current. If there are omissions, please let me know. If you are a newcomer to the list, please see the resources there. There is no shortage of information on the internet. In particular there are some extremely good online tutorials for experts and newcomers to the field of time frequency. For anyone serious, there are also a number of excellent books that are well worth borrowing or buying. What is needed is probably not another wiki or even a FAQ, but for people, especially newcomers, to contribute to the list by documenting what they have done, so that the next person to join the list can learn from their experience. For example, with this thread in mind, if Edgardo were to document all he learns about his 5065A or Sarah were to take the time to document everything she learns about her TBolt -- that's how the knowledge-base grows. It doesn't often matter to me if that information resides on personal servers, or a KO4BB wiki, or as occasional postings to the time-nuts mailing list. Google does the work of finding it regardless. The key point is that people take the time to document and share what they've learned so google has something interesting to find. /tvb www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners (was: Followup (still want a GPS-type NTP refclock))
t...@leapsecond.com said: BTW, the best time frequency glossary on the web so far is at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/glossary.htm There's also an index at: http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-index.htm That's a good example of a point I didn't make last time... Official sites like NIST usually don't do a good job of linking out to other sites. When they do, they often go to official or manufacturers sites rather than informal/amateur sites. That's not bad, but it might not help newbies find places like time-nuts when they are trying to get started. I should have mentioned that there is nothing wrong with having multiple FAQ/Wiki sites run by amateurs. The trick is that they usually cross-link to each other. If google (or dumb luck) takes you to one, that usually helps you find the others. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
