Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-14 Thread David Schinazi
Hi everyone, Thanks again for your feedback, we've updated the document to reflect it: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-dtls-02 https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-babel-dtls-02 David On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 1:41 PM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > - s2.5 Not sure what

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-13 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> - s2.5 Not sure what the ceremonies around flushing a neighbor are, > but I'd make explicit signalling EOD at least a SHOULD? It seems more > polite :-) > I agree, I upgraded politeness to a SHOULD. Note however that a neighbour is usually discarded when we loose too many Hellos

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-13 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> Yep, all of which speaks to some serious shortcomings of the > HMAC-based protocol. The scope of Babel-HMAC is deliberately limited. Babel-HMAC aims to implement the strict minimum of features that make it useful. Any deployment that needs features beyond what Babel-HMAC provides should use

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-12 Thread Martin Thomson
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 12:33 PM David Schinazi wrote: > Our threat model should be described in the introduction. From your > comments I'm guessing it isn't clear, so we should fix that. The basic > idea is that any on-link device can change the routing of the entire > network, and that's bad

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-12 Thread David Schinazi
Hi Martin, Thanks for looking into this. Our threat model should be described in the introduction. From your comments I'm guessing it isn't clear, so we should fix that. The basic idea is that any on-link device can change the routing of the entire network, and that's bad for hopefully obvious

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-12 Thread David Schinazi
Thanks for the feedback Thomas! Responses inline. On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:30 PM Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge) < thomas.foss...@nokia.com> wrote: > One high level thing which I can't extrapolate from the draft (which is > probably due to my ignorance with Babel) is whether you envisage

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-12 Thread David Schinazi
*Cc:* "draft-ietf-babel-d...@ietf.org" , " > tls@ietf.org" > *Betreff:* Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong? > Hi David, > > A few quick notes below. > > Cheers > > The 11/08/2018 09:14, David Schinazi wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > O

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-11 Thread Martin Thomson
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:10 PM Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > Offhand, it seems like replays are possible if you allow the possibility > > of the node crashing and dumping state. > > Unless I've missed something -- they are not, assuming you have > a sufficiently strong random number generator.

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-09 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> I'm somewhat dismayed by the firm recommendation to use the HMAC > mechanism, Yeah, this could probably be loosened somewhat. > which doesn't seem particularly robust. It's designed to be fairly robust. Of course, we may have done things wrong. > Offhand, it seems like replays are possible

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-09 Thread Martin Thomson
Hi David, I couldn't find any description of the threat model involved here, nor could I find any analysis of the security against that model. Without that, I can't really say whether this is right or not. For instance, there is specific mention of the certificate status request extension, but

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-07 Thread Hannes Tschofenig
. This would also allow you to cover the multicast security case.    Ciao Hannes   Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. November 2018 um 11:30 Uhr Von: "Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)" An: "David Schinazi" Cc: "draft-ietf-babel-d...@ietf.org" , "tls@ietf.org&

Re: [TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-07 Thread Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)
Hi David, A few quick notes below. Cheers The 11/08/2018 09:14, David Schinazi wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Over in the Babel working group we have a draft about securing Babel with > DTLS: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-dtls-01 > > It's 5 pages long, could any TLS experts please

[TLS] Are we holding TLS wrong?

2018-11-07 Thread David Schinazi
Hi everyone, Over in the Babel working group we have a draft about securing Babel with DTLS: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-babel-dtls-01 It's 5 pages long, could any TLS experts please give it a quick read and let us know if we're using DTLS correctly? Also, should the document contain