as well. I'll take a
look. . . .
Aaron
-Original Message-
From: Filip Hanik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:12 PM
To: Tomcat Developers List
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
hi, let me introduce myself.
My name is Filip
hi, let me introduce myself.
My name is Filip Hanik and I just rejoined this mailing list since my time
has freed up a little bit lately.
I was looking through the source code and the archives and was wondering
what the status Tomcat has on session replication.
When looking through the source
- Original Message -
From: Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 3:24 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| Costin,
|
| that point of view is really interesting. What about separating
Costin,
that point of view is really interesting. What about separating the
distribution part from the integration part of a integrated solution.
That would user's give the option to use the transparent session
replication or to use explicit object replication services.
The former would
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
|
|
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tom Drake wrote:
|
| I want a distributed session store, where all sessions are known (or
| are knowable) by all members of the cluster, with a built
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
I completely agree, that the API lacks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Paul Speed wrote:
I think the idea is that you'd byte compare on commit which ideally
would happen at request boundaries. So in this case a single request
becomes a transaction... which indeed opens up its own issues, but
no bigger than
To clarify: creating a Distributed Session Manager is a good idea, and
something that would be great for users.
My problem is with designing it at container-level, as an implementation
of the servlet session API.
Having all objects in a session distributed and no control or feedback is
not
Pier, Tom,
cool, the discussion is starting to become interesting. :-)
comments below:
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management
[] value)
throws RemoteException;
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| On 13/11/2001 12:54 am, Tom Drake
Pier, Mikal:
I agree, I think the juices are flowing. See below
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| Pier, Tom
-
From: Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
Pier, Mikal:
I agree, I think the juices are flowing. See below
Tom
- Original Message -
From
On 13/11/2001 04:38 pm, Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SNMP, ah ja. I've got no knowledge at all 'bout that, so fight with some
other lobbyists :-)
Same here...
SessionManager/ServletContainer dualism:
If we don't create a separate SessionManager residing in it's own JVM, but
Hi,
Interesting discussion, it's good to see some on this distribution
issue, the devils always in the detail! See comments
| But how would they know where the sessions ended up
All session managers keep a copy of all sessions. So, it doesn't matter
which server a client talks to.
Pier:
Great discussion points. I really appreciate your thoughtful feedback.
My comment about Tomcat caching session data does not preclude
it from being stored in the remote session server. Indeed, this would
be required. My thought was this, in a multi-node network if multiple
contiguous
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| On 13/11/2001 04:38 pm, Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| SNMP, ah
- Original Message -
From: GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
... stuff deleted ...
| Notice also, in my concept, there are no delays built
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tom Drake wrote:
I want a distributed session store, where all sessions are known (or
are knowable) by all members of the cluster, with a built-in
fail-over mechanism?
As you guys discuss this, don't forget a very important requirement in the
servlet specification with
On 13/11/2001 06:53 pm, Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| SNMP, ah ja. I've got no knowledge at all 'bout that, so fight with some
| other lobbyists :-)
|
| Same here...
Didn't mean to take a left turn. Sorry I mentioned it.
Oh, I mean, I don't mind... The only thing is that I have
On 13/11/2001 07:41 pm, Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tom Drake wrote:
I want a distributed session store, where all sessions are known (or
are knowable) by all members of the cluster, with a built-in
fail-over mechanism?
As you guys discuss this,
On 13/11/2001 07:59 pm, Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scenario:
4) 10 Tomcat webservers acting as SessionManagers for Sessions initially
created by themselves or being assigned responsibility afterwards for a
specific session.
In this scenario every Tomcat backs up sessions to a
Can't help you on that... But, if we customize the lookup tables
abstracting it from JNDI, we could write also some C code for the
web-server
modules that could participate in our session pooling group, and direct
requests where they should be, two pigeons with a single shot :)
Something in
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:19:35 +0100
From: Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
Hi Craig
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
So, basically, we have to design a lock/unlock mechanism (that complicates
stuff). It would be easier to achieve without that requirement... (god knows
why Danny added it).
See the answer I just sent for more details -- not enforcing this
: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:19:35 +0100
From: Mika Goeckel [EMAIL
One question - wouldn't be better if the 'distributed session management'
would be first designed and discussed _outside_ of the ServletSession
context ?
In other words, a SessionManager that would store and provide
fail-over, etc for serializable objects. It can have a rich interface,
See below.
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| ASFAICT, minimal redundance is all that is required. There's
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| As you guys discuss this, don't forget
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
|
|
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
|
| Date: Tue, 13 Nov
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
|
| One question - wouldn't be better if the 'distributed
Management revisited
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| As you guys discuss
Session Management revisited
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
|
|
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tom Drake wrote:
| One question - wouldn't be better if the 'distributed session management'
| would be first designed and discussed _outside_ of the ServletSession
| context ?
I agree.
| Designing the SessionManager as a standalone component would make a lot of
|
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
... stuff deleted ...
| | It would
See my comments below.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Tom Drake wrote
Tom Drake wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
... stuff deleted
- Original Message -
From: Paul Speed [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
Tom Drake wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Craig R. McClanahan
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
I completely agree, that the API lacks proactive support for things in the
background that may fail.
But given the fact, that we support a reference implementation which has
managed to provide really professional services to users (other ref
Mika Goeckel wrote:
[ snip ]
I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea, but you can byte
compare the resulting session serialization to see if the session
objects have changed. All you have to do is keep a local copy of
the original session during the request. Not very
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mika Goeckel wrote:
I completely agree, that the API lacks proactive support for things in the
background that may fail.
But given the fact, that we support a reference implementation which has
managed to provide really professional
See below
- Original Message -
From: Paul Speed [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
... stuff deleted ...
|
| The main issue is that the app has
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Paul Speed wrote:
I think the idea is that you'd byte compare on commit which ideally
would happen at request boundaries. So in this case a single request
becomes a transaction... which indeed opens up its own issues, but
no bigger than the ones that were always there.
Hi,
I'm looking at the same area at the moment. and try to get my head around
it maybe we can help each other... further comments below.
- Original Message -
From: Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Dev List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:19 PM
Subject: Fw:
On 12/11/2001 10:19 pm, Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tomcat Developers:
This is a forward of a message that I sent to Bip and Craig a few days ago,
regarding distributed session managment (aka Clustering). I haven't gotten
any feedback just yet, so I thought I'd throw this out to the
attributes
have actually changed.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Drake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| Hi,
|
| I'm
- Original Message -
From: Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tomcat Developers List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Tomcat: Distributed Session Management revisited
| On 12/11/2001 10:19 pm, Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| Tomcat Developers
On 12/11/2001 11:14 pm, Mika Goeckel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would vote for the cooperative approach, but I'd like to add some
thoughts:
Besides the primary session manager, there needs to be a backup session
manager that captures the changes of sessions as well and is the crown
prince
On 13/11/2001 12:54 am, Tom Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mika:
Thanks for the reply. Here's some more thoughts on this subject.
The primary problem that I see with the collaborative method
(e.g. extending the multicast solution) is
that all sessions will have to be sent to all cluster
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