Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
There is no meaning in saying that one can plug in required services to Tomcat. My question is by design is it an application server ?. My opinion is that Tomcat in the shipped form is not an application server. At the minimum it should provide transaction and persistence services, method level security is also preferred. One can add all the above mentioned features to any servlet engine by deploying JAR files of the required services(JNDI,JTA,persistence and even EJB). So any servlet engine becomes an application server. Am I right ? I think you are getting your terms mixed up... Your arguments could be used in regards to a full J2EE container, which Tomcat isn't on it's own but an application server just needs to serve applications and Tomcat certainly does that. Agree. Tomcat is an application server, e.g. JBoss aswell, but JBoss is a J2EE 1.x compliant application server as all parts of the spec are implemented, Tomcat is not as only parts are covered. Cheers, Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
IMHO : Tomcat is a web application server, not an application server. It is true you can extend tomcat and make it work like an application server. Tomcat and just Tomcat is no application server. It's like saying that an engine is a car. Which is not true! You can extend this engine and build things around it that will make the complete thing you have build a car. But the engine still is an engine and not a car. You could also have build a motorbike which uses an engine. An application server can use a web front end hosted by tomcat but it is not a requirement. An application server can also have native clients (written in any programming language). An application server has standard ejb support. If you have build a web application with tomcat than you have build yourself a j2ee application without using an application server, which is perfectly legal. Regards Werner van Mook - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
There only relevant question here is: How is a application server defined? As Richard Mixon already pointed out, there are many definitions under which Tomcat IS an application server. For many others however application server is equivalent to full J2EE application server (or something like this). In this definition Tomcat is surely no application server. For me however an application server is just what the word says: A server that serves applications. And that is what Tomcat can do. just my 2 Euro cents, Christoph Werner van Mook (RY/ETM) wrote: IMHO : Tomcat is a web application server, not an application server. It is true you can extend tomcat and make it work like an application server. Tomcat and just Tomcat is no application server. It's like saying that an engine is a car. Which is not true! You can extend this engine and build things around it that will make the complete thing you have build a car. But the engine still is an engine and not a car. You could also have build a motorbike which uses an engine. An application server can use a web front end hosted by tomcat but it is not a requirement. An application server can also have native clients (written in any programming language). An application server has standard ejb support. If you have build a web application with tomcat than you have build yourself a j2ee application without using an application server, which is perfectly legal. Regards Werner van Mook - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 09:08 +0200, Michael Echerer wrote: There is no meaning in saying that one can plug in required services to Tomcat. My question is by design is it an application server ?. My opinion is that Tomcat in the shipped form is not an application server. At the minimum it should provide transaction and persistence services, method level security is also preferred. One can add all the above mentioned features to any servlet engine by deploying JAR files of the required services(JNDI,JTA,persistence and even EJB). So any servlet engine becomes an application server. Am I right ? I think you are getting your terms mixed up... Your arguments could be used in regards to a full J2EE container, which Tomcat isn't on it's own but an application server just needs to serve applications and Tomcat certainly does that. Agree. Tomcat is an application server, e.g. JBoss aswell, but JBoss is a J2EE 1.x compliant application server as all parts of the spec are implemented, Tomcat is not as only parts are covered. JBoss as shipped, is installed as a set of services inside (specifically) the Tomcat application server. You have made our point that Tomcat is an application server, since JBoss does not serve applications without Tomcat or some other application server around it. The parts that are specifically JBoss can (in theory) be installed any J2EE compliant application server. Tomcat is the minimum _reference_ implementation of J2EE application server. Apart from actual bugs, Tomcat _defines_ the minimum requirements for a J2EE compliant application server. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is Tomcat is an application server ?
Hi all, Many might have asked this question but I need a more elaborate answer. Today I attended an interview and the interviewer insists that Tomcat versions above 4.x is an application server. Is that true ?. What are the points to support the argument ?. -- rgds Anto Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
I think for most practical purposes Tomcat is an application server. What Tomcat does not have is a builtin Enterprise Java Beans container - however Tomcat supports many other parts of the J2EE spec. Simply by the numbers, the vast majority of Java web applications do not use EJBs - so Tomcat is just fine for most users. EJBs are not necessary at all for building sophisticated and complex web applications. Tomcat offers load balancing and clustering - which used to be only offered by commercial application servers. That said, there are some advantages to EJBs that can make the additional complexity worth it. For some enterprise situations, you may want an application server that is fully compliant with the J2EE spec, such as Jboss, WebSphere, BEA or one of the other commercial packages. HTH - Richard -Original Message- From: Anto Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:02 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Is Tomcat is an application server ? Hi all, Many might have asked this question but I need a more elaborate answer. Today I attended an interview and the interviewer insists that Tomcat versions above 4.x is an application server. Is that true ?. What are the points to support the argument ?. -- rgds Anto Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
On 6/21/05, Richard Mixon (qwest) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think for most practical purposes Tomcat is an application server. What Tomcat does not have is a builtin Enterprise Java Beans container - however Tomcat supports many other parts of the J2EE spec. Simply by the numbers, the vast majority of Java web applications do not use EJBs - so Tomcat is just fine for most users. EJBs are not necessary at all for building sophisticated and complex web applications. Tomcat offers load balancing and clustering - which used to be only offered by commercial application servers. That said, there are some advantages to EJBs that can make the additional complexity worth it. For some enterprise situations, you may want an application server that is fully compliant with the J2EE spec, such as Jboss, WebSphere, BEA or one of the other commercial packages. But it is not providing any services like transaction service, messaging service, remoting. Without these how it can be considered as an application server ?. -- rgds Anto Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
Antonio, I will be generous and not assume you are arguing for arguments sake - maybe just being a little too theoretical :) I gave you some real world examples. If you want some third party definitions, Google on the following: Application Server definitions And you will see that Tomcat is quite comfortably contained in all 9 of the definitions on that page. As far as the points you bring up: - Remoting implies distributing your objects across the network - a nice feature, but not often needed. Its talked about a lot - but for most applications its just not needed. - Our Hibernate-based Tomcat application use Hibernate and jta.jar for transaction services and it works quite well. We have most of the advantages of declarative transaction demarcation. - It is really nice to have a messenging service or message broker, but IMHO, the lack of such does not mean you cannot serve Java applications. Have a good day - Richard -Original Message- From: Anto Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:09 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ? On 6/21/05, Richard Mixon (qwest) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think for most practical purposes Tomcat is an application server. What Tomcat does not have is a builtin Enterprise Java Beans container - however Tomcat supports many other parts of the J2EE spec. Simply by the numbers, the vast majority of Java web applications do not use EJBs - so Tomcat is just fine for most users. EJBs are not necessary at all for building sophisticated and complex web applications. Tomcat offers load balancing and clustering - which used to be only offered by commercial application servers. That said, there are some advantages to EJBs that can make the additional complexity worth it. For some enterprise situations, you may want an application server that is fully compliant with the J2EE spec, such as Jboss, WebSphere, BEA or one of the other commercial packages. But it is not providing any services like transaction service, messaging service, remoting. Without these how it can be considered as an application server ?. -- rgds Anto Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
To expand a bit on Richard's note ... On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 00:32 -0700, Richard Mixon (qwest) wrote: - Remoting implies distributing your objects across the network - a nice feature, but not often needed. Its talked about a lot - but for most applications its just not needed. J2EE is a standard that encompasses a large number of standards services, most of which are considered optional. JMS, for example, is not implemented in any commercial server directly. Instead, you must purchase a messaging system such as MQ series, (generally) a JNI wrapper code to talk to the message service, and a JMS wrapper that goes with the messaging system. This all plugs into the app server as a set of JAR files and a couple of native libraries. JTA is an extension that, likewise, is optional and pluggable. From my exposure, it also appears to be largely an evolving standard, in the sense that some of the things you would expect to support JTA don't quite do so. - Our Hibernate-based Tomcat application use Hibernate and jta.jar for transaction services and it works quite well. We have most of the advantages of declarative transaction demarcation. Hibernate demonstrates why EJB is an optional part of the J2EE specification. It is fully reasonable, during product design and exploratory coding, to unplug one persistence model and replace it with another. In the case of hibernate versus EJB 1 and 2, enough people did this that Hibernate has effectively displaced EJB's in much of the industry, and Hibernate is now the core of the EJB 3 specification. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
On 6/21/05, David Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To expand a bit on Richard's note ... On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 00:32 -0700, Richard Mixon (qwest) wrote: - Remoting implies distributing your objects across the network - a nice feature, but not often needed. Its talked about a lot - but for most applications its just not needed. J2EE is a standard that encompasses a large number of standards services, most of which are considered optional. JMS, for example, is not implemented in any commercial server directly. Instead, you must purchase a messaging system such as MQ series, (generally) a JNI wrapper code to talk to the message service, and a JMS wrapper that goes with the messaging system. This all plugs into the app server as a set of JAR files and a couple of native libraries. JTA is an extension that, likewise, is optional and pluggable. From my exposure, it also appears to be largely an evolving standard, in the sense that some of the things you would expect to support JTA don't quite do so. - Our Hibernate-based Tomcat application use Hibernate and jta.jar for transaction services and it works quite well. We have most of the advantages of declarative transaction demarcation. Hibernate demonstrates why EJB is an optional part of the J2EE specification. It is fully reasonable, during product design and exploratory coding, to unplug one persistence model and replace it with another. In the case of hibernate versus EJB 1 and 2, enough people did this that Hibernate has effectively displaced EJB's in much of the industry, and Hibernate is now the core of the EJB 3 specification. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no meaning in saying that one can plug in required services to Tomcat. My question is by design is it an application server ?. My opinion is that Tomcat in the shipped form is not an application server. At the minimum it should provide transaction and persistence services, method level security is also preferred. One can add all the above mentioned features to any servlet engine by deploying JAR files of the required services(JNDI,JTA,persistence and even EJB). So any servlet engine becomes an application server. Am I right ? -- rgds Anto Paul - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Tomcat is an application server ?
On 6/21/05, Anto Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/21/05, David Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To expand a bit on Richard's note ... On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 00:32 -0700, Richard Mixon (qwest) wrote: - Remoting implies distributing your objects across the network - a nice feature, but not often needed. Its talked about a lot - but for most applications its just not needed. J2EE is a standard that encompasses a large number of standards services, most of which are considered optional. JMS, for example, is not implemented in any commercial server directly. Instead, you must purchase a messaging system such as MQ series, (generally) a JNI wrapper code to talk to the message service, and a JMS wrapper that goes with the messaging system. This all plugs into the app server as a set of JAR files and a couple of native libraries. JTA is an extension that, likewise, is optional and pluggable. From my exposure, it also appears to be largely an evolving standard, in the sense that some of the things you would expect to support JTA don't quite do so. - Our Hibernate-based Tomcat application use Hibernate and jta.jar for transaction services and it works quite well. We have most of the advantages of declarative transaction demarcation. Hibernate demonstrates why EJB is an optional part of the J2EE specification. It is fully reasonable, during product design and exploratory coding, to unplug one persistence model and replace it with another. In the case of hibernate versus EJB 1 and 2, enough people did this that Hibernate has effectively displaced EJB's in much of the industry, and Hibernate is now the core of the EJB 3 specification. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no meaning in saying that one can plug in required services to Tomcat. My question is by design is it an application server ?. My opinion is that Tomcat in the shipped form is not an application server. At the minimum it should provide transaction and persistence services, method level security is also preferred. One can add all the above mentioned features to any servlet engine by deploying JAR files of the required services(JNDI,JTA,persistence and even EJB). So any servlet engine becomes an application server. Am I right ? I think you are getting your terms mixed up... Your arguments could be used in regards to a full J2EE container, which Tomcat isn't on it's own but an application server just needs to serve applications and Tomcat certainly does that. Regards, -- Jason Bainbridge http://kde.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Site - http://jasonbainbridge.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using Tomcat as an application server
Title: Message Good Afternoon... I am trying to set Tomcat up as an application server so that it can be ran in conjunction with Apache (looked at the Wrox's Professional Tomcat book who mentions that is how to run the server with Apache). I have been unable to find the proper Connector element setting/parameter to make the change. Can anyone provide some assistance? Thanks...Allen This message may contain proprietary or confidential company information. Any unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
