On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| Would you guys take this conversation off the list please?
| Its heavy enough without your personal comments.
Aren't there room for any fun?! This is the most rewarding and interesting
thread in a while, in my opinion..! :)
;)
Endre
Would you guys take this conversation off the list please?
Its heavy enough without your personal comments.
regards DaveP
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Why was C++ invented? To give programmers jobs. No other reason
whatsoever, C does whatever C++ does just as good, and better.
At that point, you just showed to be very closed-minded.
(C++ does have an accurate object model, which improves a
lot. Yes, you can
do similar things with
i program in ones and zeroes only!! :D
You know you could just not write any jsps or servlets and do everything in
filters. That's my personal preference. :)
--mikej
-=-
mike jackson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Woodchuck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 11:52 AM
To: Tomcat Users
Real programmers only need 2 buttons: 0 and 1
-Original Message-
From: SANTOS, DANIEL (SBCSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:14 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
Ivan Jouikov wrote, On 7/4/2004 1:04 PM:
1. JSTL and EL are inefficient. Tests on similar pages clearly showed
that. (compare - ${name} with %=name%, run in a loop 1 times,
you-?ll see the difference)
Sure it will be slower, it is really java classes under the hood trying to
hide
1) Yes %=% was 10 times as fast. But Anything of simple complexity like
using a model object request %=% to get ugly real fast with many getters
and explict casts. There is a massive tradeoff in simplicity when you have
the following:
${myObect.myGetter.aValue}
Ahh must I repeat this
My replies below
-Original Message-
From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:19 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:03:45 -0700
Ivan Jouikov
Hello, it seems I have missed a good conversation! Now for my two
pence/cents:
4. EL encourages sloppy syntax. It doesnt even have data types
(well it has on the bottom level, but not on the surface).
Remember JavaScript? Did you know that at first, it was supposed
to
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 00:55:17 -0700
(B"Ivan Jouikov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
(B
(B My replies below
(B
(B -Original Message-
(B From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(B Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:19 PM
(B To: Tomcat Users List
(B Subject: Re: I've officially decided that
-Original Message-
From: Mike Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 1:49 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
Hello, it seems I have missed a good conversation! Now for
Hello -
I think I was unclear in what I meant. I am not talking about
presentation of code, (hell assembler can be presented well!) what I
mean is that using JSTL and EL forces you to abstract yourself from the
business tier as you have restricted ability to handle the data. By
using embedded
My replies below
-Original Message-
From: Joel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:24 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 00:55:17 -0700
Ivan Jouikov
My replies below
-Original Message-
From: Mike Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:40 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
Hello -
I think I was unclear in what I
Hi Ivan
I heard same story for assemblor supporters about C 30 years ago :
Slower and not better.
Fact is that today's software are larger than 30 years ago.
Tools just cannot be the same as complexity is exponential to the size.
It is not one good tool, you have tools adapted for each job.
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:40:54 -0700
Ivan Jouikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
...
A tool is a tool. Rather than declare that a tool is worse than useless,
it probably would be more effective to explain why you couldn't use it
this time. It's a little easier that way to talk about what can be
Hi
After getting convinced to try JSTL, I learned the following things:
..
Having read points 1-6, I thought, there must be a truth in your remarks.
(I did'nt use JSTL or EL yet, but I am about to try.)
But then I got to:
Why was C++ invented? To give programmers jobs. No other reason
Ivan, tell us how you really feel :-)
Not to be a smart As_ but Ive felt the same way about changes, for the
better? not always, but it progresses to the next point where there is
an improvement. For example, remember the old client/server
technology? It sounded good at first until everyone
I am new to this mailing list but I figured I would throw in my two cents:
(Please excuse my e-mail provider it interpreted the characters from Ivan's
original message in some strange way)
Needless to say I was a bit concerned about a few comments...
After getting convinced to try JSTL, I
I am not closed minded. You got to give me some credit for opening myself up to JSTL
and EL in the first place. And about C++ - I like it, but I use it only because I
have to use it. What I DON'T like about it is:
Huge file sizes
100% guaranteed memory leaks
Classes = complicated structs
Read my comments below:
-Original Message-
From: Ariel Valentin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: I've officially decided that JSTL is one of the worst things
to ever happen to mankind
I am new to this mailing list
Nice troll.
1) Yes %=% was 10 times as fast. But Anything of simple complexity like
using a model object request %=% to get ugly real fast with many getters
and explict casts. There is a massive tradeoff in simplicity when you have
the following:
${myObect.myGetter.aValue}
2) I get massive
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:03:45 -0700
(B"Ivan Jouikov" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
(B
(B ...
(B Point of this message: DO NOT USE JSTL OR EL. You$Bc`QM(Bl regret it. I did.
(B
(BIf a tool doesn't work for you, don't use it.
(B
(BThere are plenty of tools. We all make mistakes. No reason to
... Believe me, it dies whatever C does just
Heh.
as good, and better.)
...
-
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