Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike va3mw]

JT9 vs JT65 over CW

The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM. 

73

Mike va3mw

> On May 13, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:
> 
> That's interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us.
> 
> What software are you using, Brian? Joe Taylor's, or some other?
> 
> I'm guessing you're only using the wide SSB filter. In any case, I'll have
> to try that and see, using CW and SSB filters.
> 
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> 
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Brian D G3VGZ > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with its
>> two
>> pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I also find
>> a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than JT65.
>> 
 Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
 only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
 
 I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
 VHF mode.
 
 physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
>> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

That's interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us.

What software are you using, Brian? Joe Taylor's, or some other?

I'm guessing you're only using the wide SSB filter. In any case, I'll have
to try that and see, using CW and SSB filters.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Brian D G3VGZ  wrote:

>
> I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with its
> two
> pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I also find
> a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than JT65.
>
> > > Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
> > > only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
> > >
> > > I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
> > > VHF mode.
> > >
> > > physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Brian D G3VGZ]

Mike Waters  wrote:

> Maybe some do. But I usually turn the speakers off when operating digital
> modes.
> 
> That extra 2 dB over JT65 --as well as freeing up large portions of the
> band-- ought to matter to more hams.

I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with its two
pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I also find
a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than JT65.


> 
> 73, Mike www.w0btu.com
> 
> On May 13, 2017 3:32 PM, "Brian Pease"  wrote:
> 
> This may sound strange, but my opinion is that hams like the musical tones
> of JT65.
> 
> 
> On 5/13/2017 3:27 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
> 
> > Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
> > only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
> >
> > I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
> > VHF mode.
> >
> > physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
[snip]


-- 
Brian D 
G3VGZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

Well said! That's more interesting to me, too. :-)

But I find WSJT-X interesting to play with once in while. I mostly used
WSPR to check propagation.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On May 13, 2017 3:57 PM, "Jorge Diez - CX6VM"  wrote:

I did JT65 on 160, but really what´s the challenge?

Is amazing when you did a CW qso, switching between RX antennas, filters
and radio adjustments to pull out a callsign

I don´t know what people than been on topband for decades feel about that
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

I did JT65 on 160, but really what´s the challenge?

Is amazing when you did a CW qso, switching between RX antennas, filters
and radio adjustments to pull out a callsign

I don´t know what people than been on topband for decades feel about that

73.
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

2017-05-13 17:42 GMT-03:00 Mike Waters :

> Maybe some do. But I usually turn the speakers off when operating digital
> modes.
>
> That extra 2 dB over JT65 --as well as freeing up large portions of the
> band-- ought to matter to more hams.
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On May 13, 2017 3:32 PM, "Brian Pease"  wrote:
>
> This may sound strange, but my opinion is that hams like the musical tones
> of JT65.
>
>
> On 5/13/2017 3:27 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
>
> > Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
> > only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
> >
> > I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
> VHF
> > mode.
> >
> > physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
> >
> >
> > 73, Mike
> > www.w0btu.com
> >
> > On May 13, 2017 2:03 PM, "James Denneny" <57jndenn...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
> > next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its
> > weak
> > signal performance.
> >
> > This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly
> with
> > propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with
> exchanges
> > due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > K7EG
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

Maybe some do. But I usually turn the speakers off when operating digital
modes.

That extra 2 dB over JT65 --as well as freeing up large portions of the
band-- ought to matter to more hams.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On May 13, 2017 3:32 PM, "Brian Pease"  wrote:

This may sound strange, but my opinion is that hams like the musical tones
of JT65.


On 5/13/2017 3:27 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

> Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
> only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
>
> I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a VHF
> mode.
>
> physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
>
>
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
>
> On May 13, 2017 2:03 PM, "James Denneny" <57jndenn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
> next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its
> weak
> signal performance.
>
> This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly with
> propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with exchanges
> due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.
>
> Jim
>
> K7EG
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Brian Pease]

This may sound strange, but my opinion is that hams like the musical 
tones of JT65.


On 5/13/2017 3:27 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
only 1/10 of the bandwidth.

I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a VHF
mode.

physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html


73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On May 13, 2017 2:03 PM, "James Denneny" <57jndenn...@comcast.net> wrote:

I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its weak
signal performance.

This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly with
propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with exchanges
due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.

Jim

K7EG
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
only 1/10 of the bandwidth.

I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a VHF
mode.

physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html


73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On May 13, 2017 2:03 PM, "James Denneny" <57jndenn...@comcast.net> wrote:

I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its weak
signal performance.

This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly with
propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with exchanges
due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.

Jim

K7EG
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Top Band and JT65

[James Denneny]

I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its weak
signal performance.

 

This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly with
propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with exchanges
due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.

 

Jim

K7EG

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 160 in daylight

[Peter Voelpel]

Yes, VY2ZM on times is still S7-9 on 160m at 11:00 local time at my location
in Germany on 160m.
And VE1ZZ calls in around 21:00 local time when he is still in full day
light, two hours before I hear any other station from NA.

73
Peter


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Smith VE9AA
Sent: Samstag, 13. Mai 2017 17:26
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 in daylight

Hi Bob, 

 

Welcome to 160m !

 

Milt Jensen N5IA (sk) used his huge array in the 160m contests to work
thousands of miles east and west while he was in full sunlight. (In fact I
believe he was the one who sponsored a plaque for daylight operation only in
the Stew Perry Contests)

For some of these exciting reports (too lengthy to reproduce here) go to
3830scores.com and type in N5IA.

Look for the Stew Perry Contests (SPTDC) and his call N5IA(N7GP) then read
his DAYLIGHT reports.

 

Incidentally the first real exposure to daylight DX I personally experienced
was from CY9AA in 1997 when myself, Doug, VE1PZ and Dennis, K7BV setup on
that tiny rock in the Gulf of St. Lawrence (N. Atlantic area).  We had a
wonderful balloon supported 1/4wl wire vertical tied into a massive copper
groundscreen (leftover from a VLF beacon) and a salt water Fresnel zone.
With that setup and legal limit we were able to work EU a cpl hours before
sunset on that desolate rock.  An unforgettable experience.

 

Big stations like VY2ZM, VE1ZZ, etc. do the same all the time.

 

It still is exciting !

 

>From my home with a small-moderate sized 'array' of 2-inverted L's phased I
can SOMETIMES work EU just a little before sunset (pre-grayline) here and
have worked out as far as KH6/VK/ZL to a little after sunset here(post
grayline).  Hardly full sun, but it does show what can be done when you
think it not possible.

 

Have fun !

 

Mike VE9AA

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 160 in daylight

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi Peter,

The 'why not' only applies to the hams who don't want to chat with their 
'neighbors' or anybody on the same continent. propagation does play into 
it and if you are a "DX only" ham 160 is much better at the greyline or 
at night. There is nothing wrong with being a DX only ham. But for the 
rest of us 160 is available all the time. The old saw about time and 
place gets "and band" added to it. It's just a matter of your intent.


73,

Bill  KU8H

PS..my best antennas for 160 and 80 will never be better than a poor 
compromise. That is still much better than no antenna or radio at all.


On 05/13/2017 10:54 AM, Peter Voelpel wrote:

Sure it does, why not?

73
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob via
Topband

I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania, have only been on 160 a month.
  
I hooked up with station in Lacona, NY which is about 200 miles from my

QTH.  We decided that the next day at 2pm we would meet on 1.965 MHz.
Surprisingly we were able to have a QSO. SIGNALS VARIED FROM S1 TO S 5.
  
iI guess this proves that 160 does WORK in the daytime hours.


73'

Bob  Reynolds
WB3DYE
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



--
bark less - wag more

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 160 in daylight

[Art Roberts]

Hi Gang,

While working at a beginner level on 160, I have dabbled with the band 
for many years. The subject of daylight operations brought to mind on 
interesting occurrence. After I returned from Vietnam, in 1969, I setup 
a basic station which included 160. There was a total lunar eclipse for 
the East coast during that time in '69. One of the test being run on 160 
was if the propagation would change to night time conditions during the 
eclipse. Worked beautifully, as the sun went away, the band got better. 
From my QTH in Northern Connecticut, I was hearing Florida stations at 
the peak. Since I was running low power and a marginal antenna, I was 
not able to contact anyone, but it was very interesting to hear the change.


Several years later I was stationed in Northern California and again was 
on 160. There was some local daytime activity in the area. Again some 
interesting propagation occurred then too. I remember one station had a 
rapid QSB from S9 to S0 and back, and they were like 10 miles away. I 
figured it was the ground wave and possible sky wave interacting.


Some afternoons I do get on JT65 and start listening and calling CQ 
several hours before sunset and I think it helps stir up activity.


Bob, I am glad that you brought up this side of the Top Band.

Art  w1aer
FN31ov



On 5/13/2017 11:26 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

Hi Bob,

  


Welcome to 160m !

  


Milt Jensen N5IA (sk) used his huge array in the 160m contests to work
thousands of miles east and west while he was in full sunlight. (In fact I
believe he was the one who sponsored a plaque for daylight operation only in
the Stew Perry Contests)

For some of these exciting reports (too lengthy to reproduce here) go to
3830scores.com and type in N5IA.

Look for the Stew Perry Contests (SPTDC) and his call N5IA(N7GP) then read
his DAYLIGHT reports.

  


Incidentally the first real exposure to daylight DX I personally experienced
was from CY9AA in 1997 when myself, Doug, VE1PZ and Dennis, K7BV setup on
that tiny rock in the Gulf of St. Lawrence (N. Atlantic area).  We had a
wonderful balloon supported 1/4wl wire vertical tied into a massive copper
groundscreen (leftover from a VLF beacon) and a salt water Fresnel zone.
With that setup and legal limit we were able to work EU a cpl hours before
sunset on that desolate rock.  An unforgettable experience.

  


Big stations like VY2ZM, VE1ZZ, etc. do the same all the time.

  


It still is exciting !

  


>From my home with a small-moderate sized 'array' of 2-inverted L's phased I
can SOMETIMES work EU just a little before sunset (pre-grayline) here and
have worked out as far as KH6/VK/ZL to a little after sunset here(post
grayline).  Hardly full sun, but it does show what can be done when you
think it not possible.

  


Have fun !

  


Mike VE9AA

  


Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

  


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband




--
Art Roberts W1AER
Tariffville, CT  FN31ov
JT9 and JT65

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: 160 in daylight

[Mike Smith VE9AA]

Hi Bob, 

 

Welcome to 160m !

 

Milt Jensen N5IA (sk) used his huge array in the 160m contests to work
thousands of miles east and west while he was in full sunlight. (In fact I
believe he was the one who sponsored a plaque for daylight operation only in
the Stew Perry Contests)

For some of these exciting reports (too lengthy to reproduce here) go to
3830scores.com and type in N5IA.

Look for the Stew Perry Contests (SPTDC) and his call N5IA(N7GP) then read
his DAYLIGHT reports.

 

Incidentally the first real exposure to daylight DX I personally experienced
was from CY9AA in 1997 when myself, Doug, VE1PZ and Dennis, K7BV setup on
that tiny rock in the Gulf of St. Lawrence (N. Atlantic area).  We had a
wonderful balloon supported 1/4wl wire vertical tied into a massive copper
groundscreen (leftover from a VLF beacon) and a salt water Fresnel zone.
With that setup and legal limit we were able to work EU a cpl hours before
sunset on that desolate rock.  An unforgettable experience.

 

Big stations like VY2ZM, VE1ZZ, etc. do the same all the time.

 

It still is exciting !

 

>From my home with a small-moderate sized 'array' of 2-inverted L's phased I
can SOMETIMES work EU just a little before sunset (pre-grayline) here and
have worked out as far as KH6/VK/ZL to a little after sunset here(post
grayline).  Hardly full sun, but it does show what can be done when you
think it not possible.

 

Have fun !

 

Mike VE9AA

 

Mike, Coreen & Corey

Keswick Ridge, NB

 

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Ladder line Beverage Installation

[MICHAEL ST ANGELO]

Fritz,

I cut a U shaped slot on the top, install a short piece of tubing and run the 
wire through the tubing. I keep the tubing in place by placing a black UV proof 
tywrap on the top of the pipe.

I use tubing so as to not chafe the wire.

Mike N2MS


> On May 12, 2017 at 9:36 PM FritzOAQ  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> What do you connect to the PVC pipe to hold the wires?
> 
>  
> 
> Herb,
> 
> How do you connect the paint sticks to the posts?
> 
>  
> 
> Fritz K4OAQ
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I drive the metals posts into the ground and slide a 10 foot section of gray
> 
> 
> PVC pipe over the post for my supports.
> 
>  
> 
> Mike N2MS
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> DXE sells some nifty ladder insulators designed for wooden posts. They are
> listed at $13.95 for a bag of 25. (DXE P/N DXE-LL-LNS) In my case I wanted
> to use metal fence supports with wood on the top for an easier installation
> with a 3 lb maul rather than digging holes for the post supports. While
> pushing my cart through Home Depot one day I stumbling upon paint stir
> sticks in the paint section for .99 cents for a package of three. They are
> made of pine and are 33 inches long and appear very durable being almost 1/4
> inch thick. They can flex a bit but hard to break even over your knee. Much
> to my surprise the DXE Beverage insulator snaps right on to the top portion
> where the paint mixer would normally put his hand. Although not really
> necessary a small wood screw would prevent any insulator from unsnapping in
> high winds. A coat ofThompson's Water Seal on the paint stick is also an
> option. Mounting these insulators in this fashion would bring the ladder
> line in a vertical position with respect to ground. With a half twist ever
> 70 feet I think this would enhance the performance and not degrade it in
> anyway. If I am wrong with that the Beverage gurus might possiblycorrect me.
> 
>  
> 
> I know this is sort of a trivia post but I was amazed at how easily the DXE
> insulator snapped on the paint stick. Also if wooden 2X2's are an option for
> support they can be placed in line of the Beverage field first. Then a screw
> gun can zip these paint sticks in place as required.
> 
>  
> 
> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> 
>  
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 160 in daylight

[Peter Voelpel]

Sure it does, why not?

73
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob via
Topband

I live in Northeastern Pennsylvania, have only been on 160 a month.
 
I hooked up with station in Lacona, NY which is about 200 miles from my  
QTH.  We decided that the next day at 2pm we would meet on 1.965 MHz.   
Surprisingly we were able to have a QSO. SIGNALS VARIED FROM S1 TO S 5.
 
iI guess this proves that 160 does WORK in the daytime hours.  

73'

Bob  Reynolds
WB3DYE
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband