Topband: Was leaving, now Found On...

[Gary Smith]

FORD

Found On Road Dead... 

Found On Rusting Dumps...

:)

Sorry, couldn't help myself, good memories 
from long ago.

73,

Gary
KA1J



> Who in
> his right mind would pay good money for a *FORD*! Just kidding of
> course.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Bill  KU8H



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband Leaving - FT8

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi,

Those digital modes don't take up a lot of spectrum. Quite a few QSOs 
can take place in the spectrum passed by an SSB filter. Having them 
bunched together makes it easier for them to find one another and makes 
it easier for the rest of us to avoid them QRMing us AND us QRMing them. 
I am not about the content or format of FT-8 (yes I tried it) but I can 
see no reason to try to run them (or anybody else) off the band or the list.


Having those FT-8 stations all in one place makes a good propagation 
forecast tool. Cruise on up to "that" place and see how many of them you 
can hear. Lots of them? Good propagation. One or two? Try a different 
band :)


I think somebody mentioned thick skin and automotive collector lists. I 
am not surprised it could get dense on an automotive list. Who in his 
right mind would pay good money for a *FORD*! Just kidding of course.


73,

Bill  KU8H

On 09/05/2018 02:35 PM, Bryon Paul Veal NØAH wrote:

I think the problem is due to limited high Q antennas on top band, every one is 
more concerned about 30Khz of usable DX bandwidth.  I find a lot of topband and 
is fully underutilized, much like 80M.  So we hear a lot QRM for digital ops 
both on the air and reflectors.  I do feel digital modes could be using 
available underused spectrum to avoid run ins but that never seemed to be in 
the cards due to region IARU issues.

73. Paul. N0AH

Get Outlook for Android


From: Topband  on behalf of chacuff 

Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:21:52 AM
To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist; Mark K3MSB
Cc: topband; Tree
Subject: Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving



Not Helpful...
But quite revealing...earning them stripes!
CecilK5DL


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
Date: 9/5/18  8:20 AM  (GMT-06:00)
To: Mark K3MSB 
Cc: topband , Tree 
Subject: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving

Off the reflector:

Thanks Mark for posting this "rebuttal?" to W0BTU.
His rules are way too stifling for my tastes.

On another reflector, some bozo was going off
on me saying I didn't know what I was talking
about, etc. when I was trying to give him
some friendly advice.

The moderator asked me if I wanted
to have him kick this guy off the reflector
because he offended me.  I told him, heck no,
he just makes himself look stupid.  I'll let
the readers decide which one of us is the fool.
You know the saying, don't argue with a fool...

Anyway, your comments are very well received here.
I'm going to save your "rules" for future reference.

I'm a self confessed "never-FT8'er", but I wouldn't
dream of forcing the FT8 enthusiasts off the reflector.
I don't get where the beef is here.

73
Rick N6RK



I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
started this:

“From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
must take my leave.”

I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
follow that thread.

So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.Was this person
specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
moderators if that's what happened.Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
Good Lord split ya.

I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
think they do a good job of it.

In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
have their opinions respected.You do have the right to express your
opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.

Mark's Principles of Discourse:

#1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
right to have your views favorably accepted.You don't have the right to
expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.

#2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
reflector, or in email, or other electronic 

Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband Leaving

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

I think the problem is due to limited high Q antennas on top band, every one is 
more concerned about 30Khz of usable DX bandwidth.  I find a lot of topband and 
is fully underutilized, much like 80M.  So we hear a lot QRM for digital ops 
both on the air and reflectors.  I do feel digital modes could be using 
available underused spectrum to avoid run ins but that never seemed to be in 
the cards due to region IARU issues.

73. Paul. N0AH

Get Outlook for Android


From: Topband  on behalf of chacuff 

Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:21:52 AM
To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist; Mark K3MSB
Cc: topband; Tree
Subject: Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving



Not Helpful...
But quite revealing...earning them stripes!
CecilK5DL


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
Date: 9/5/18  8:20 AM  (GMT-06:00)
To: Mark K3MSB 
Cc: topband , Tree 
Subject: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving

Off the reflector:

Thanks Mark for posting this "rebuttal?" to W0BTU.
His rules are way too stifling for my tastes.

On another reflector, some bozo was going off
on me saying I didn't know what I was talking
about, etc. when I was trying to give him
some friendly advice.

The moderator asked me if I wanted
to have him kick this guy off the reflector
because he offended me.  I told him, heck no,
he just makes himself look stupid.  I'll let
the readers decide which one of us is the fool.
You know the saying, don't argue with a fool...

Anyway, your comments are very well received here.
I'm going to save your "rules" for future reference.

I'm a self confessed "never-FT8'er", but I wouldn't
dream of forcing the FT8 enthusiasts off the reflector.
I don't get where the beef is here.

73
Rick N6RK


> I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
> started this:
>
> “From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
> the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
> enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
> wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
> must take my leave.”
>
> I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
> follow that thread.
>
> So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.Was this person
> specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
> moderators if that's what happened.Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
> welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
> If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
> Good Lord split ya.
>
> I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
> the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
> occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
> bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
> think they do a good job of it.
>
> In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
> Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
> have their opinions respected.You do have the right to express your
> opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
> really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
> operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.
>
> Mark's Principles of Discourse:
>
> #1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
> right to have your views favorably accepted.You don't have the right to
> expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
> Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.
>
> #2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
> real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
> reflector, or in email, or other electronic mediums,  I privately email the
> potential offender for clarification.   The vast majority of times there
> was no offense intended.  Remember,  with electronic mediums you loose
> about 93% of the intended message (body language, tone of voice etc – look
> this one up if you don't believe me.Google is your friend.).
>
> #3:   If you don't respect the source of the insult,  don't let it bother
> you.
>
> #4:  If you're new to the sandbox, welcome.   Unfortunately, if you want to
> be respected for your views,  then you have to first earn your stripes.
> “Respect is something earned, not something given”.   I have no idea who
> said that, but it's true. The corollary is that even if you don't
> respect a persons position,  courtesy still remains.
>
> So Mike W0BTU,  this is the 2nd thread in which you've posted your
> stackexchange etiquette manifesto:
>
> “but I 

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Kenneth Grimm]

If you have a Tractor Supply store near you, the price for 1/4 mile of 17
ga. galvanized electric fence wire is $14.99.  You can get 1/2 mile roll
for $29.99.  Just how long it will last will vary depending on your soil.
However, at that price it is worth a try.

73,
Ken - K4XL

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Herbert Schoenbohm <
herbert.schoenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1/4 mile for $30 is reasonable and would work well for radials.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acorn-International-EFW1714-1-
> 4-Mile-17-Gauge-Galvanized-Fence-Wire/152465194663?epid=4017419194=
> item237fa23ea7:g:xOMAAOSw4A5YwFca
>
> Herb, KV4FZ
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 2:00 PM Herbert Schoenbohm <
> herbert.schoenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For a cheap solution for radials is to use buried galvanized barbed wire.
> > It is available for pennies a foot.  A preferred way of putting it in is
> to
> > use a is a  Ditch Witch with a vibrating plow attachment that allows the
> > wire to buried with limited handling.  Depending on the soil consistency
> it
> > will be long-lasting.   My sons with metal detectors have unearthed
> barbed
> > wire that was of a style used 50 years ago by local farmers. In Puerto
> Rico
> > AM stations have lost entire copper fields by poachers who sent it off to
> > Rep Dom by containers to be sent by the pound. They have used the
> > galvanized fence wire successfully.
> >
> > Herb, KV4FZ
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 1:13 PM JC  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Guys
> >>
> >> Stay away from aluminum, the aluminum oxide dielectric is a terrible
> >> complication around 2 MHz, it become a capacitor and a diode and will
> >> generate a lot of noise in presence RF currents.
> >>
> >> There is no way to avoid the diodes at the connection with different
> >> materials, like at the ground plate. When these electrical junctions are
> >> very well they will work well for few months, than the noise will start
> >> around Sunset when the RF field from AM BC are more intense, the RF
> will be
> >> there, even if you are far from BC station, the propagation peak is near
> >> Sunset.
> >>
> >> Galvanic corrosion and diode formation is inevitable. Same problem is
> >> very common on rotor, mast and tower contacts originating birds on 1810,
> >> 1820 and every 10 KHz, most of this signals are originate on your own
> >> tower. Just grounding the with a solid contact with the tower can kill a
> >> lot of noise.
> >>
> >> I've seen several situation of aluminum joints becoming a strong noise
> >> source. The same joints are not a problem on 80 or 40m, the issue is
> just
> >> around 2 MHz
> >>
> >> Save yourself a lot of problems, aluminum an 160m antennas are not a
> good
> >> combination.
> >>
> >> 73's
> >> JC
> >> N4IS
> >>
> >>
> >> _
> >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >>
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
Ken - K4XL
BoatAnchor Manual Archive
BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

1/4 mile for $30 is reasonable and would work well for radials.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acorn-International-EFW1714-1-4-Mile-17-Gauge-Galvanized-Fence-Wire/152465194663?epid=4017419194=item237fa23ea7:g:xOMAAOSw4A5YwFca

Herb, KV4FZ

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 2:00 PM Herbert Schoenbohm <
herbert.schoenb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> For a cheap solution for radials is to use buried galvanized barbed wire.
> It is available for pennies a foot.  A preferred way of putting it in is to
> use a is a  Ditch Witch with a vibrating plow attachment that allows the
> wire to buried with limited handling.  Depending on the soil consistency it
> will be long-lasting.   My sons with metal detectors have unearthed barbed
> wire that was of a style used 50 years ago by local farmers. In Puerto Rico
> AM stations have lost entire copper fields by poachers who sent it off to
> Rep Dom by containers to be sent by the pound. They have used the
> galvanized fence wire successfully.
>
> Herb, KV4FZ
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 1:13 PM JC  wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> Stay away from aluminum, the aluminum oxide dielectric is a terrible
>> complication around 2 MHz, it become a capacitor and a diode and will
>> generate a lot of noise in presence RF currents.
>>
>> There is no way to avoid the diodes at the connection with different
>> materials, like at the ground plate. When these electrical junctions are
>> very well they will work well for few months, than the noise will start
>> around Sunset when the RF field from AM BC are more intense, the RF will be
>> there, even if you are far from BC station, the propagation peak is near
>> Sunset.
>>
>> Galvanic corrosion and diode formation is inevitable. Same problem is
>> very common on rotor, mast and tower contacts originating birds on 1810,
>> 1820 and every 10 KHz, most of this signals are originate on your own
>> tower. Just grounding the with a solid contact with the tower can kill a
>> lot of noise.
>>
>> I've seen several situation of aluminum joints becoming a strong noise
>> source. The same joints are not a problem on 80 or 40m, the issue is just
>> around 2 MHz
>>
>> Save yourself a lot of problems, aluminum an 160m antennas are not a good
>> combination.
>>
>> 73's
>> JC
>> N4IS
>>
>>
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RE topband Leaving

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

This hobby is dead if we keep chasing off people.

There is no reason we can't treat people respectfully here.  If you 
can't then maybe those need to leave or Tree needs to show them the door.


W0MU


On 9/5/2018 11:01 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 06:13:21 -0400
From: Mark K3MSB 
To: Mike Waters 
Cc: ad4hk2...@yahoo.com, topband , Tree

Subject: Re: Topband: RE topband Leaving

http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RE topband Leaving

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 06:13:21 -0400
From: Mark K3MSB 
To: Mike Waters 
Cc: ad4hk2...@yahoo.com, topband , Tree

Subject: Re: Topband: RE topband Leaving

http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

For a cheap solution for radials is to use buried galvanized barbed wire.
It is available for pennies a foot.  A preferred way of putting it in is to
use a is a  Ditch Witch with a vibrating plow attachment that allows the
wire to buried with limited handling.  Depending on the soil consistency it
will be long-lasting.   My sons with metal detectors have unearthed barbed
wire that was of a style used 50 years ago by local farmers. In Puerto Rico
AM stations have lost entire copper fields by poachers who sent it off to
Rep Dom by containers to be sent by the pound. They have used the
galvanized fence wire successfully.

Herb, KV4FZ

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 1:13 PM JC  wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> Stay away from aluminum, the aluminum oxide dielectric is a terrible
> complication around 2 MHz, it become a capacitor and a diode and will
> generate a lot of noise in presence RF currents.
>
> There is no way to avoid the diodes at the connection with different
> materials, like at the ground plate. When these electrical junctions are
> very well they will work well for few months, than the noise will start
> around Sunset when the RF field from AM BC are more intense, the RF will be
> there, even if you are far from BC station, the propagation peak is near
> Sunset.
>
> Galvanic corrosion and diode formation is inevitable. Same problem is very
> common on rotor, mast and tower contacts originating birds on 1810, 1820
> and every 10 KHz, most of this signals are originate on your own tower.
> Just grounding the with a solid contact with the tower can kill a lot of
> noise.
>
> I've seen several situation of aluminum joints becoming a strong noise
> source. The same joints are not a problem on 80 or 40m, the issue is just
> around 2 MHz
>
> Save yourself a lot of problems, aluminum an 160m antennas are not a good
> combination.
>
> 73's
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[JC]

Hi Guys

Stay away from aluminum, the aluminum oxide dielectric is a terrible 
complication around 2 MHz, it become a capacitor and a diode and will generate 
a lot of noise in presence RF currents.

There is no way to avoid the diodes at the connection with different materials, 
like at the ground plate. When these electrical junctions are very well they 
will work well for few months, than the noise will start around Sunset when the 
RF field from AM BC are more intense, the RF will be there, even if you are far 
from BC station, the propagation peak is near Sunset.

Galvanic corrosion and diode formation is inevitable. Same problem is very 
common on rotor, mast and tower contacts originating birds on 1810, 1820 and 
every 10 KHz, most of this signals are originate on your own tower. Just 
grounding the with a solid contact with the tower can kill a lot of noise.

I've seen several situation of aluminum joints becoming a strong noise source. 
The same joints are not a problem on 80 or 40m, the issue is just around 2 MHz

Save yourself a lot of problems, aluminum an 160m antennas are not a good 
combination.

73's
JC
N4IS


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Grant Saviers]

Interesting source.  The 5356 alloy would be the best choice for radial 
wires since the 5xxx series are of a corrosion resistant aluminum 
alloy.  5052 is the usual alloy for boat hulls in salt water.


OTOH, it seems the cost of 14ga THHN, the fact that it will last 
forever, and that it is widely available makes this an academic point.  
Unspooled properly, the thousands of feet I've used electrically didn't 
seem to have much coil memory.


For elevated radials, Al electric fence wire is my preference, but it 
has strong coil memory even after 5 years in the air.


Grant KZ1W

On 9/4/2018 19:14 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

On 9/4/2018 4:36 PM, Jeff Draughn wrote:

I’m looking for suggestions for radial wire that will lay as flat as
possible.  I realize that’s probably what everyone is looking for, 
however




See:  http://www.alcotec.com/us/en/products/tie-wire.cfm

Rick N6RK
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband Leaving

[chacuff]

Not Helpful...
But quite revealing...earning them stripes!
CecilK5DL


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  
Date: 9/5/18  8:20 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: Mark K3MSB  
Cc: topband , Tree  
Subject: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving 

Off the reflector:

Thanks Mark for posting this "rebuttal?" to W0BTU.
His rules are way too stifling for my tastes.

On another reflector, some bozo was going off
on me saying I didn't know what I was talking
about, etc. when I was trying to give him
some friendly advice.

The moderator asked me if I wanted
to have him kick this guy off the reflector
because he offended me.  I told him, heck no,
he just makes himself look stupid.  I'll let
the readers decide which one of us is the fool.
You know the saying, don't argue with a fool...

Anyway, your comments are very well received here.
I'm going to save your "rules" for future reference.

I'm a self confessed "never-FT8'er", but I wouldn't
dream of forcing the FT8 enthusiasts off the reflector.
I don't get where the beef is here.

73
Rick N6RK


> I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
> started this:
> 
> “From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
> the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
> enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
> wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
> must take my leave.”
> 
> I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
> follow that thread.
> 
> So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.    Was this person
> specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
> moderators if that's what happened.    Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
> welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
> If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
> Good Lord split ya.
> 
> I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
> the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
> occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
> bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
> think they do a good job of it.
> 
> In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
> Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
> have their opinions respected.    You do have the right to express your
> opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
> really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
> operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.
> 
> Mark's Principles of Discourse:
> 
> #1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
> right to have your views favorably accepted.    You don't have the right to
> expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
> Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.
> 
> #2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
> real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
> reflector, or in email, or other electronic mediums,  I privately email the
> potential offender for clarification.   The vast majority of times there
> was no offense intended.  Remember,  with electronic mediums you loose
> about 93% of the intended message (body language, tone of voice etc – look
> this one up if you don't believe me.    Google is your friend.).
> 
> #3:   If you don't respect the source of the insult,  don't let it bother
> you.
> 
> #4:  If you're new to the sandbox, welcome.   Unfortunately, if you want to
> be respected for your views,  then you have to first earn your stripes.
> “Respect is something earned, not something given”.   I have no idea who
> said that, but it's true. The corollary is that even if you don't
> respect a persons position,  courtesy still remains.
> 
> So Mike W0BTU,  this is the 2nd thread in which you've posted your
> stackexchange etiquette manifesto:
> 
> “but I gar-run-tee you that none of this bickering and (fill in your own
> definition of inappropriate behavior here) is tolerated there. ”
> Respectfully Mike,  it seems you've had it with this “bickering” and
> “inappropriate behavior” and recommend putting the proverbial hammer down
> to set thing straight (you “gar-run-tee” it). That's concerns me.
> 
> Is it really bickering that's occurring, or might it be just a healthy
> discourse on issues you might not feel need discussed any longer even
> though they may be of import to list members?
> 
> “fill in your own definition of inappropriate behavior here”.   Wow.   I
> suspect you may not agree with mine.   So, lets use mine and you follow
> them, OK ?
> 
> “*Unacceptable 

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Tree]

Speaking of radial wire - I have recently found a source of it that is very
inexpensive.  It might not be the best for laying flat - but I have been
able to find thousands of feet for like $15.  Sorry - this is probably only
a USA thing however.

Look for your nearest Habitat for Humanity ReStore.  They are like a
Goodwill for building supplies.  They typically have an area with hand
tools and you will find spools of wire and RG6 if you are lucky.  Great
prices.  If I see one while I am driving through most anyplace - I stop in
to take a quick look.

Happy Hunting!!

In other news - I have my second tower about 80 percent up in the air.
Should be able to finish it during the next month and get it loaded on
160.  Hoping to have a pretty good signal from my new QTH by the PreStew.
This is my first hilltop QTH and am anxious to see how it plays.

73 Tree N6TR/7
Manning, OR

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 5:00 AM MU 4CX250B <4cx2...@miamioh.edu> wrote:

> Jeff, I also use THHN 14Awg stranded wire laying flat on the ground. I
> use brown insulation to match the desert floor, and one or two lawn
> staples per radial (each is 120 ft long). I'm not certain, but I think
> I bought it in 5000 ft spools.
> 73,
> Jim w8zr
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 4, 2018, at 5:47 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> >
> > I use 14 AWG THHN stranded wire for temporary radials laying
> > on the ground. Its lays flat.
> >
> >
> >
> www.wireandcableyourway.com/14-awg-thhn-stranded-building-wire-500ft-or-2500ft-spool.html
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > From: "Jeff Draughn" 
> > To: topband@contesting.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:36:54 PM
> > Subject: Topband: Radial wire
> >
> > I’m looking for suggestions for radial wire that will lay as flat as
> > possible. I realize that’s probably what everyone is looking for, however
> > I have used the wire from the big box stores THHN etc. and it always has
> > that permanent curl to it or permanent for a good long while.
> >
> > Anyone know of anything that is very flexible right out of the gate test
> > lead wire comes to mind but probably too expensive.
> > Thanks
> > Jeff, N0OST
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband Leaving

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

Off the reflector:

Thanks Mark for posting this "rebuttal?" to W0BTU.
His rules are way too stifling for my tastes.

On another reflector, some bozo was going off
on me saying I didn't know what I was talking
about, etc. when I was trying to give him
some friendly advice.

The moderator asked me if I wanted
to have him kick this guy off the reflector
because he offended me.  I told him, heck no,
he just makes himself look stupid.  I'll let
the readers decide which one of us is the fool.
You know the saying, don't argue with a fool...

Anyway, your comments are very well received here.
I'm going to save your "rules" for future reference.

I'm a self confessed "never-FT8'er", but I wouldn't
dream of forcing the FT8 enthusiasts off the reflector.
I don't get where the beef is here.

73
Rick N6RK



I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
started this:

“From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
must take my leave.”

I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
follow that thread.

So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.Was this person
specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
moderators if that's what happened.Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
Good Lord split ya.

I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
think they do a good job of it.

In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
have their opinions respected.You do have the right to express your
opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.

Mark's Principles of Discourse:

#1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
right to have your views favorably accepted.You don't have the right to
expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.

#2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
reflector, or in email, or other electronic mediums,  I privately email the
potential offender for clarification.   The vast majority of times there
was no offense intended.  Remember,  with electronic mediums you loose
about 93% of the intended message (body language, tone of voice etc – look
this one up if you don't believe me.Google is your friend.).

#3:   If you don't respect the source of the insult,  don't let it bother
you.

#4:  If you're new to the sandbox, welcome.   Unfortunately, if you want to
be respected for your views,  then you have to first earn your stripes.
“Respect is something earned, not something given”.   I have no idea who
said that, but it's true. The corollary is that even if you don't
respect a persons position,  courtesy still remains.

So Mike W0BTU,  this is the 2nd thread in which you've posted your
stackexchange etiquette manifesto:

“but I gar-run-tee you that none of this bickering and (fill in your own
definition of inappropriate behavior here) is tolerated there. ”
Respectfully Mike,  it seems you've had it with this “bickering” and
“inappropriate behavior” and recommend putting the proverbial hammer down
to set thing straight (you “gar-run-tee” it). That's concerns me.

Is it really bickering that's occurring, or might it be just a healthy
discourse on issues you might not feel need discussed any longer even
though they may be of import to list members?

“fill in your own definition of inappropriate behavior here”.   Wow.   I
suspect you may not agree with mine.   So, lets use mine and you follow
them, OK ?

“*Unacceptable Behavior - Even if you don’t intend it, this can have a
negative impact on others ”  So, if I offend someone I get a “warning” from
the moderators as Enforcement step #1? I guess it's don't offend anyone
for any reason or the hammer comes down!

Sorry Mike,  I think the moderators are doing a fine job as it is.   Do I
agree with their actions all the time?  No.   But I'll cut them some
slack;  it's a thankless job and you're always going to upset someone.

So, in the end,  we really don't know why 

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[MU 4CX250B]

Jeff, I also use THHN 14Awg stranded wire laying flat on the ground. I
use brown insulation to match the desert floor, and one or two lawn
staples per radial (each is 120 ft long). I'm not certain, but I think
I bought it in 5000 ft spools.
73,
Jim w8zr

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 5:47 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
> I use 14 AWG THHN stranded wire for temporary radials laying
> on the ground. Its lays flat.
>
>
> www.wireandcableyourway.com/14-awg-thhn-stranded-building-wire-500ft-or-2500ft-spool.html
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Jeff Draughn" 
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:36:54 PM
> Subject: Topband: Radial wire
>
> I’m looking for suggestions for radial wire that will lay as flat as
> possible. I realize that’s probably what everyone is looking for, however
> I have used the wire from the big box stores THHN etc. and it always has
> that permanent curl to it or permanent for a good long while.
>
> Anyone know of anything that is very flexible right out of the gate test
> lead wire comes to mind but probably too expensive.
> Thanks
> Jeff, N0OST
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: RE topband Leaving

[Mark K3MSB]

I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
started this:

“From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
must take my leave.”

I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
follow that thread.

So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.Was this person
specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
moderators if that's what happened.Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
Good Lord split ya.

I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
think they do a good job of it.

In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
have their opinions respected.You do have the right to express your
opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.

Mark's Principles of Discourse:

#1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
right to have your views favorably accepted.You don't have the right to
expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.

#2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
reflector, or in email, or other electronic mediums,  I privately email the
potential offender for clarification.   The vast majority of times there
was no offense intended.  Remember,  with electronic mediums you loose
about 93% of the intended message (body language, tone of voice etc – look
this one up if you don't believe me.Google is your friend.).

#3:   If you don't respect the source of the insult,  don't let it bother
you.

#4:  If you're new to the sandbox, welcome.   Unfortunately, if you want to
be respected for your views,  then you have to first earn your stripes.
“Respect is something earned, not something given”.   I have no idea who
said that, but it's true. The corollary is that even if you don't
respect a persons position,  courtesy still remains.

So Mike W0BTU,  this is the 2nd thread in which you've posted your
stackexchange etiquette manifesto:

“but I gar-run-tee you that none of this bickering and (fill in your own
definition of inappropriate behavior here) is tolerated there. ”
Respectfully Mike,  it seems you've had it with this “bickering” and
“inappropriate behavior” and recommend putting the proverbial hammer down
to set thing straight (you “gar-run-tee” it). That's concerns me.

Is it really bickering that's occurring, or might it be just a healthy
discourse on issues you might not feel need discussed any longer even
though they may be of import to list members?

“fill in your own definition of inappropriate behavior here”.   Wow.   I
suspect you may not agree with mine.   So, lets use mine and you follow
them, OK ?

“*Unacceptable Behavior - Even if you don’t intend it, this can have a
negative impact on others ”  So, if I offend someone I get a “warning” from
the moderators as Enforcement step #1? I guess it's don't offend anyone
for any reason or the hammer comes down!

Sorry Mike,  I think the moderators are doing a fine job as it is.   Do I
agree with their actions all the time?  No.   But I'll cut them some
slack;  it's a thankless job and you're always going to upset someone.

So, in the end,  we really don't know why “the leaver” is leaving.   Was he
hunted down and the slothful moderators did nothing?Did he attempt to
contact the “offenders” to straighten things out?   Or, perhaps,  maybe he
just wasn't able to change people's views to his own and decided to pick up
his marbles and leave.Do we really know the facts, or are we just
reacting in general to a newbie leaving the sandbox -- because a newbie
leaving is bad?

73 Mark K3MSB

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:

> Okay, bear with me...
>
> Perhaps we here ought to have a Code Of Conduct. Something along the lines
> as this one:
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/help/behavior
> https://stackoverflow.com/conduct
>
>
> I am one of the three moderators on ham.stackexchange.com. Now, that site
> is not a forum or a reflector, but I