[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
** Tags added: fr-287 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. My expectation is that update would list the packages to be removed because they are no longer dependencies of packages that were consciously installed. On that basis, there should be no surprise to users. The messaging could point users to a handy document to understand how they can make a package stick around by flagging it as one they have manually / consciously installed. My point is that most users don't install 'linux-image-extra-4.13.0-15-generic' themselves, they have a system with 'linux-image-generic' installed, and it's dependencies change over time. AIUI, we already have a good way of holding back from autoremoval versions of the kernel which are currently in use, or which are the last-best-guess-good kernel, or which are the next-kernel-to-boot. All other kernels that were not explicitly installed by the user are simply ephemeral to that user, and for the vast majority of users, those ephemeral kernels build up over time taking large amounts of space and slowing down upgrades thanks to the initramfs generation mechanisms. Those kernels should go when they are deemed surplus; the user did not ask for them explicitly, and the user isn't going to boot them either. Here's what I have in mind, note the changes to text in the output of apt upgrade. The user is prompted, and told how to avoid autoremoval. $ sudo apt upgrade Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... Done These packages were automatically installed and are no longer needed: libgweather-3-6, linux-image-extra-4.13.0-15-generic Cancel this operation and use 'sudo apt install ' to keep them from automatic removal. The following packages have been kept back: libreoffice-help-en-us The following packages will be upgraded: libio-socket-ssl-perl 1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 1 not upgraded. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
@sabdfl I absolutely agree that unused kernels should be removed, and it is being fixed in LP: #1624644 right now. I strongly disagree on performing autoremovals of user space programs because Ubuntu's strength is not only in providing an experience which is consistently great across the system, but a great experience which is also consistent in time. People would be upset finding their favourite work tool or solitaire implementation gone after the upgrade because GNOME decided to recommend a different one none at all. IMO to provide the best experience apt commands should be left doing what they are doing well for years and LP: #1624644 should be fixed. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
** Tags added: id-5a553b5474b9d2e5f3fe51d1 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Status: New => Triaged ** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided => Medium -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: Triaged Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
** Changed in: apt (Ubuntu) Assignee: (unassigned) => Julian Andres Klode (juliank) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
** Tags added: bionic -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
Oh right, that's another use case I forgot about. I can see cleaning them up automatically in unattended-upgrades and dist-upgrade (or well, when any new kernel is installed). I just don't want to accidentally autoremove a desktop or something :) I guess in essence we can just define a second level of autoremove that only removes safe packages, and just enable that by default. This way we can mark kernels as safe to autoremove, and still have an autoremove command that removes potentially less-safe unused packages. We can even extend that to other packages as needed. Together with fixes for gnome-software and complete autoremove in do- release-upgrade (and perhaps the limited autoremove when removing a package) we should should have a solution that should not cause any big issues I think. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
The main reason to do this is kernel cruft. We have had kernels being flagged for removal for years now, and it's completely reliable. We really should garden that automatically. Mark -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Touch seeded packages, which is subscribed to apt in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104 Title: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well Status in apt package in Ubuntu: New Bug description: In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is just a placeholder bug in that case :) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages Post to : touch-packages@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~touch-packages More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Touch-packages] [Bug 1734104] Re: 'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
automatic autoremoval is a difficult topic with a lot of things to
consider:
* autoremoval is not safe to do. Users often end up removing a lot of
stuff they don't want to remove. So this needs careful checking.
(dist-)Upgrades already have long output and people miss removals
already, adding automatic removals makes them even more likely to miss
things.
* The packages being autoremoved are not necessarily related to the
package changes being performed at the moment. You could have removed a
package at some point and your next upgrade let's say a week later
removes all dependencies of the package - that's just seems like bad
user experience to me.
* apt upgrade is defined to not remove packages - that is, it is safe to
run with the guarantee of not losing any functionality. autoremove there
would break that promise and thus expectations. For {full,dist-upgrade}.
So, I don't think we should just switch on autoremovals by default.
We should first focus on the aspects where it really matters:
* If you install an app via gnome-software and remove it, its
dependencies should be gone too (but not other unused packages, as said
before, that would be bad UX).
* When doing release upgrades, remove all unused packages. There's a
huge amount of churn and people expect stuff to be broken / missing
after a release upgrade anyway, so there's much less frustation.
(both have their own LP bugs, but I don't know which ATM)
Also we could do that gnome-software idea of a limited autoremove and
push that to apt too and do that on remove/install/dist-upgrade.
"upgrade" really is kind of a special case, though.
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1734104
Title:
'upgrade' in bionic should by default autoremove as well
Status in apt package in Ubuntu:
New
Bug description:
In bionic, apt upgrade should also autoremove by default. I have a few
bionic systems (upgrades from xenial mostly) which are not yet showing
that behaviour, it may be we haven't implemented that yet so this is
just a placeholder bug in that case :)
To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1734104/+subscriptions
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