Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 8:44 AM, F Wolff wrote: > > Op Sa, 2011-04-16 om 21:57 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru >> wrote: >> > lr., 2011.eko apiren 16a 00:25(e)an, Leandro Regueiro(e)k idatzi zuen: >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:29 PM, F Wolff >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: >> I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal >> will use. >> >> In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project >> folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can >> create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use >> those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in >> Virtaal. Can you help me? >> >> >>> >> >>> Hi Leandro >> >>> >> >>> Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a >> >>> file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might >> >>> need to make a zero change to be able to save.) >> >> >> >> Well, this is a way. I just tried and seems to work. Maybe you should >> >> document it on the wiki. Thanks a lot. >> >> >> >> IMHO you should put some way on the interface to specify a file (or >> >> list of files) to Virtaal add them to the translation memory. >> > >> > Oh yes, can I say "I want this too"? >> > >> > Moreover, recently some bad translations ended up in my local TM, and I >> > didn't have any way to remove those unless going into the internals and >> > editing the SQLite db file. > > Yes, it isn't nice to have to go to the db file. If you want to, you can > really safely just remove a record from the "targets" table. I've also > seen some errors creep into my TM over time, although Open-Tran.eu > usually provides far more :-) (It imports some really bad translations > for my language from at least one project.) > > >> > The current behaviour works fine and is simple and transparent for the >> > unexperienced user as it doesn't require any setup or special actions, >> > but translators need the flexibility to manage their TMs: have >> > predefined sets to use in certain translations (not all translations >> > need the same TMs), the ability to import a bunch of files, remove >> > existing translations... >> > >> > Virtaal's current implementation doesn't give any idea of the contents >> > of its TM, it's a blind bag where translations come from, and you can't >> > certainly know beforehand if you could trust them, because you can't >> > control 100% what's in it. >> > >> > So I would like to kindly ask to give priority to bugs 997[1] and >> > 1416[2] for the next release after 0.7 if possible. >> >> I totally agree with this. The ability to use several TM and select >> which ones to use for the current file is very interesting. You may >> put a TM menu for all this actions. >> >> On the other hand you may being translating a file with a lot of bad >> translations that you are currently fixing and the unfixed ones are >> commited to the TM where they should never be. I think that new >> translations in the current file should be pushed to a local TM, and >> the TM should be created specifically by telling Virtaal which files >> (po, XLIFF, TMX or whatever) should be pushed for the (existing or >> new) TM. > > > Some CAT tools provide some kind of TM management options. I have a few > issues with doing it (now, at least): > > - Managing a TM takes time. > - Building TM management functionality takes time. > > So what I'd really like to think of is looking for other, simpler ways > of solving the same issues. Saving without pushing to TM (bug 997) is a > good step in the right direction. Bug 1416 provides a simple UI to what > we can already do. If it is a big benefit, we can probably consider it. > I think it is easily doable, even for somebody not very familiar with > the Virtaal codebase. > > But a more general management functionality that requires the user to > always actively choose how/which TM should be used, doesn't sound like > the best approach to me for most users. So while I acknowledge that > there are cases where the current approach is too simple (mostly by > design:-), I'd like to think carefully about how we address these issues > without sacrificing the (in my opinion) good usability we have now. Please just put a menu entry for "adding translations to TM". IMHO this is the least you can do to avoid users going crazy trying to make a TM. >> By the way the ability to use several terminology glossaries and >> select which ones to use for the current file is very interesting as >> well. > > This is already possible, or is that what you mean? Under Edit -> > Terminology Files. Yes, I know. Sorry but I was trying to tell you something but I didn't wrote it well. My idea was to tell that the TM could be just the same way the terminology: * Virtaal picks up a default TM, but you can select another TM * An
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
Op Sa, 2011-04-16 om 21:57 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote: > > lr., 2011.eko apiren 16a 00:25(e)an, Leandro Regueiro(e)k idatzi zuen: > >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:29 PM, F Wolff wrote: > >>> > >>> Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: > I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal > will use. > > In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project > folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can > create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use > those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in > Virtaal. Can you help me? > > >>> > >>> Hi Leandro > >>> > >>> Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a > >>> file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might > >>> need to make a zero change to be able to save.) > >> > >> Well, this is a way. I just tried and seems to work. Maybe you should > >> document it on the wiki. Thanks a lot. > >> > >> IMHO you should put some way on the interface to specify a file (or > >> list of files) to Virtaal add them to the translation memory. > > > > Oh yes, can I say "I want this too"? > > > > Moreover, recently some bad translations ended up in my local TM, and I > > didn't have any way to remove those unless going into the internals and > > editing the SQLite db file. Yes, it isn't nice to have to go to the db file. If you want to, you can really safely just remove a record from the "targets" table. I've also seen some errors creep into my TM over time, although Open-Tran.eu usually provides far more :-) (It imports some really bad translations for my language from at least one project.) > > The current behaviour works fine and is simple and transparent for the > > unexperienced user as it doesn't require any setup or special actions, > > but translators need the flexibility to manage their TMs: have > > predefined sets to use in certain translations (not all translations > > need the same TMs), the ability to import a bunch of files, remove > > existing translations... > > > > Virtaal's current implementation doesn't give any idea of the contents > > of its TM, it's a blind bag where translations come from, and you can't > > certainly know beforehand if you could trust them, because you can't > > control 100% what's in it. > > > > So I would like to kindly ask to give priority to bugs 997[1] and > > 1416[2] for the next release after 0.7 if possible. > > I totally agree with this. The ability to use several TM and select > which ones to use for the current file is very interesting. You may > put a TM menu for all this actions. > > On the other hand you may being translating a file with a lot of bad > translations that you are currently fixing and the unfixed ones are > commited to the TM where they should never be. I think that new > translations in the current file should be pushed to a local TM, and > the TM should be created specifically by telling Virtaal which files > (po, XLIFF, TMX or whatever) should be pushed for the (existing or > new) TM. Some CAT tools provide some kind of TM management options. I have a few issues with doing it (now, at least): - Managing a TM takes time. - Building TM management functionality takes time. So what I'd really like to think of is looking for other, simpler ways of solving the same issues. Saving without pushing to TM (bug 997) is a good step in the right direction. Bug 1416 provides a simple UI to what we can already do. If it is a big benefit, we can probably consider it. I think it is easily doable, even for somebody not very familiar with the Virtaal codebase. But a more general management functionality that requires the user to always actively choose how/which TM should be used, doesn't sound like the best approach to me for most users. So while I acknowledge that there are cases where the current approach is too simple (mostly by design:-), I'd like to think carefully about how we address these issues without sacrificing the (in my opinion) good usability we have now. > By the way the ability to use several terminology glossaries and > select which ones to use for the current file is very interesting as > well. This is already possible, or is that what you mean? Under Edit -> Terminology Files. By the way, we should maybe have these discussions on the translate-devel list in future, since it isn't really related to Pootle. Friedel -- Recently on my blog: http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/better-lies-about-gnome-localisation -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote: > lr., 2011.eko apiren 16a 00:25(e)an, Leandro Regueiro(e)k idatzi zuen: >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:29 PM, F Wolff wrote: >>> >>> Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal will use. In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in Virtaal. Can you help me? >>> >>> Hi Leandro >>> >>> Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a >>> file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might >>> need to make a zero change to be able to save.) >> >> Well, this is a way. I just tried and seems to work. Maybe you should >> document it on the wiki. Thanks a lot. >> >> IMHO you should put some way on the interface to specify a file (or >> list of files) to Virtaal add them to the translation memory. > > Oh yes, can I say "I want this too"? > > Moreover, recently some bad translations ended up in my local TM, and I > didn't have any way to remove those unless going into the internals and > editing the SQLite db file. > > The current behaviour works fine and is simple and transparent for the > unexperienced user as it doesn't require any setup or special actions, > but translators need the flexibility to manage their TMs: have > predefined sets to use in certain translations (not all translations > need the same TMs), the ability to import a bunch of files, remove > existing translations... > > Virtaal's current implementation doesn't give any idea of the contents > of its TM, it's a blind bag where translations come from, and you can't > certainly know beforehand if you could trust them, because you can't > control 100% what's in it. > > So I would like to kindly ask to give priority to bugs 997[1] and > 1416[2] for the next release after 0.7 if possible. I totally agree with this. The ability to use several TM and select which ones to use for the current file is very interesting. You may put a TM menu for all this actions. On the other hand you may being translating a file with a lot of bad translations that you are currently fixing and the unfixed ones are commited to the TM where they should never be. I think that new translations in the current file should be pushed to a local TM, and the TM should be created specifically by telling Virtaal which files (po, XLIFF, TMX or whatever) should be pushed for the (existing or new) TM. By the way the ability to use several terminology glossaries and select which ones to use for the current file is very interesting as well. >>> If you want to import several files, you can look at the command line >>> tool, build_tmdb. >> >> It seems interesting but I don't know how can I install this tool or >> find any documentation about it. It is not important since the other >> way seems to work. >> > > build_tmdb comes bundled in the Translate Toolkit, so you already have > it installed on your system. I think you are interested on passing the > Virtaal tm.db to the tool: > > $ build_tmdb -d ~/.virtaal/tm.db -s en -t gl It doesn't come in my version of Translate Toolkit. Right now I don't need this, but thanks a lot any way. > But I was under the impression that Virtaal was using tmdb through > tmserver, and as I see tmserver has also a command line option (-f) for > importing files, so either way should be fine I think. Thanks > Julen. > > [1] http://bugs.locamotion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=997 > [2] http://bugs.locamotion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1416 > > -- > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > ___ > Translate-pootle mailing list > Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle > -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.s
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
lr., 2011.eko apiren 16a 00:25(e)an, Leandro Regueiro(e)k idatzi zuen: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:29 PM, F Wolff wrote: >> >> Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: >>> I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal will >>> use. >>> >>> In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project >>> folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can >>> create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use >>> those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in >>> Virtaal. Can you help me? >>> >> >> Hi Leandro >> >> Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a >> file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might >> need to make a zero change to be able to save.) > > Well, this is a way. I just tried and seems to work. Maybe you should > document it on the wiki. Thanks a lot. > > IMHO you should put some way on the interface to specify a file (or > list of files) to Virtaal add them to the translation memory. Oh yes, can I say "I want this too"? Moreover, recently some bad translations ended up in my local TM, and I didn't have any way to remove those unless going into the internals and editing the SQLite db file. The current behaviour works fine and is simple and transparent for the unexperienced user as it doesn't require any setup or special actions, but translators need the flexibility to manage their TMs: have predefined sets to use in certain translations (not all translations need the same TMs), the ability to import a bunch of files, remove existing translations... Virtaal's current implementation doesn't give any idea of the contents of its TM, it's a blind bag where translations come from, and you can't certainly know beforehand if you could trust them, because you can't control 100% what's in it. So I would like to kindly ask to give priority to bugs 997[1] and 1416[2] for the next release after 0.7 if possible. >> If you want to import several files, you can look at the command line >> tool, build_tmdb. > > It seems interesting but I don't know how can I install this tool or > find any documentation about it. It is not important since the other > way seems to work. > build_tmdb comes bundled in the Translate Toolkit, so you already have it installed on your system. I think you are interested on passing the Virtaal tm.db to the tool: $ build_tmdb -d ~/.virtaal/tm.db -s en -t gl But I was under the impression that Virtaal was using tmdb through tmserver, and as I see tmserver has also a command line option (-f) for importing files, so either way should be fine I think. Julen. [1] http://bugs.locamotion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=997 [2] http://bugs.locamotion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1416 -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:29 PM, F Wolff wrote: > > Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: >> I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal will >> use. >> >> In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project >> folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can >> create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use >> those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in >> Virtaal. Can you help me? >> > > Hi Leandro > > Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a > file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might > need to make a zero change to be able to save.) Well, this is a way. I just tried and seems to work. Maybe you should document it on the wiki. Thanks a lot. IMHO you should put some way on the interface to specify a file (or list of files) to Virtaal add them to the translation memory. > If you want to import several files, you can look at the command line > tool, build_tmdb. It seems interesting but I don't know how can I install this tool or find any documentation about it. It is not important since the other way seems to work. Thanks a lot again and bye. > I hope that helps. > > Friedel > > > -- > Recently on my blog: > http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/better-lies-about-gnome-localisation > > > -- > Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload > Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top > priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve > application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting > the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev > ___ > Translate-pootle mailing list > Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle > -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
Re: [translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
Op Vr, 2011-04-15 om 19:01 +0200 skryf Leandro Regueiro: > I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal will > use. > > In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project > folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can > create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use > those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in > Virtaal. Can you help me? > Hi Leandro Virtaal moves all non-fuzzy strings to its own database when you save a file, so the easiest might be to open the file, and save it. (You might need to make a zero change to be able to save.) If you want to import several files, you can look at the command line tool, build_tmdb. I hope that helps. Friedel -- Recently on my blog: http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/better-lies-about-gnome-localisation -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
[translate-pootle] Question about using translation memories in Virtaal
I can't find any way to specify which translation memory files Virtaal will use. In OmegaT you just only drop them in a folder within the project folder and it works without setting nothing. In Lokalize you can create translation memories importing PO and TMX files and then use those translation memories. But I can't find how to make this in Virtaal. Can you help me? Thanks and bye. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Translate-pootle mailing list Translate-pootle@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle
