Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Kevin M. 
On Monday, October 10, 2016, PGage  wrote:

> Again, I think the information content in a typical presidential debate is
> chronically underestimated. Clearly there is a lot of BS - but that is true
> in every phase of the process. If all an othwise informed US voter knew
> about these two candidates was what they learned from watching the debates,
> they would certainly have enough information to pretty accurately
> understand their differences on many of the important issues of the day.


I don't dispute information was desciminated. What I claim is the
moderators had next to no control over what information (talking
points/passages from stump speech) the candidates chose to offer. The very
first question was about what the candidates would tell children -- neither
candidate came close to an answer. And it was like that most of the
evening.

The biggest obstacle in trying to get information from these two
particular candidates is in order to get to the information, voters have to
endure name calling, shouting, accusations, and interruptions. I don't know
how many voters came from a home where parents fought, but from my
experience, when mommy and daddy argue, the kids cover their ears and look
away until the shouting stops. Yes, Hilary offered specific details about
her health care plan, but to get to it, voters had to endure the proverbial
mommy and daddy fighting... if I was an undecided voter, I would not be
motivated to listen to anything said after one candidate repeatedly calls
the other a liar and one candidate threatens the other with prison. A
debate moderator is charged with keeping the candidates in check. At best,
last night's moderators served as time-keepers.


> As we all remember from our junior high school history classes (and now I
> guess from Broadway Musicals) democracy has always been a high BS
> enterprise. That is part of the price we pay. All the more reason it is
> important to have some ways of managing the BS and try to keep the playing
> field level. I thought the moderators last night did about as good a job as
> I have ever seen under unusually difficult circumstances.
>
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] This week's J! test

2016-10-10 Thread Jim Ellwanger 

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:31 AM, 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just a reminder that my wife, Pidge Meade, will be on the Jeopardy episode 
> that airs tonight, October 10th. 

Sad to see she wasn’t the one who uncovered the Daily Double about the name of 
the humans who were enslaved by the Houyhnhnms in “Gulliver’s Travels.”

Although maybe that was a more appropriate question for her husband.

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[TV orNotTV] Colbert will work on his vacation day

2016-10-10 Thread 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV 
While the show is off today (and all week, based on the schedule), Colbert 
recorded two videos over the weekend responding to the tape and last night's 
debate.  The most recent one was put at the start of tonight's repeat.
David

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread PGage 
Again, I think the information content in a typical presidential debate is
chronically underestimated. Clearly there is a lot of BS - but that is true
in every phase of the process. If all an othwise informed US voter knew
about these two candidates was what they learned from watching the debates,
they would certainly have enough information to pretty accurately
understand their differences on many of the important issues of the day.

As we all remember from our junior high school history classes (and now I
guess from Broadway Musicals) democracy has always been a high BS
enterprise. That is part of the price we pay. All the more reason it is
important to have some ways of managing the BS and try to keep the playing
field level. I thought the moderators last night did about as good a job as
I have ever seen under unusually difficult circumstances.


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RE: [TV orNotTV] Grading moderators Martha Raddatz and Anderson Cooper at the second presidential debate.

2016-10-10 Thread Brad Beam 
From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Doug Eastick


>http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/10/grading_moderators_martha_raddatz_and_anderson_cooper_at_the_second_presidential.html?wpsrc=newsletter_slatest
> 
>
> =5388d9c7dd52b8870b01bbf3
 
Not to disrupt Thanksgiving North, but am I curious about how Canadians viewed 
their party leaders’ debate moderators from last year.
 
Wikipedia* tells me two of the five debate moderators were print, and two of 
the TV moderators were French-language – specifically, the only two in which 
Bloc Québécois appeared.
 
And while the Canadian race was nowhere near as contentious as ours, with up to 
five party candidates on-stage things could’ve gotten out of hand, but didn’t, 
in what I saw, anyway.
 
(Is it so bad to imagine “Prime Minister Paul Ryan” since he’s head of the 
lower house’s majority party…?)
 
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2015
 
_  _
|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV
|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw
 

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RE: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Brad Beam 
From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Marti Lawrence


>In the future, the moderators should be allowed to fit a shock collar on both 
>nominees, and zap them whenever there is an interruption or continued talking 
>past time allotted.
And of course Trump was sniffling because he is a cocaine addict, and Hillary 
is a robot from Westworld because a fly landed on her face and she didn't 
flinch.  At least that is what all-knowing Twitter says :-) 
 
Or, as was suggested in USA Today’s “For The Win” blog, bring in Tony Reali, 
host of ESPN’s “Around The Horn.”
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/tony-reali-presidential-debate-moderator
 
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Kevin M. 
Instead of a shock collar, hook them up to lie detectors

On Monday, October 10, 2016, Marti Lawrence  wrote:

>
>>
> In the future, the moderators should be allowed to fit a shock collar on
> both nominees, and zap them whenever there is an interruption or continued
> talking past time allotted.
> And of course Trump was sniffling because he is a cocaine addict, and
> Hillary is a robot from Westworld because a fly landed on her face and she
> didn't flinch.  At least that is what all-knowing Twitter says :-)
>
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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

2016-10-10 Thread daniel anderson 
Pyramid aired on CBS, after Superior Court. Classic Concentration was on 
NBC, like you said after reruns of St Elsewhere.
The Original version of Concentration was also on NBC with Hugh Downs. 
Sometimes  he'd have to miss a show so that he could go overseas for Today, 
so Bob Clayton would slide in as host.
The St. Elsewhere reruns were syndicated, not on the NBC network, it just 
that my NBC station chose to air the St Elsewhere reruns before the game 
shows on NBC.
I remember Sale Of The Century airing after the St Elsewhere reruns for a 
while, then Classic Concentration took it's slot in 89.

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 2:47:14 PM UTC-4, M-D November wrote:
>
> Was that the syndicated version of Pyramid? To the best of my 
> recollection, Pyramid never aired on NBC as part of a network lineup.  (I 
> remember it on ABC, but I think the original run was CBS?) 
>
> NBC did, however have Classic Concentration with Alex Trebeck.
>

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[TV orNotTV] Re: Was thinking what was your station's daytime schedule back in the day?

2016-10-10 Thread M-D November 
Was that the syndicated version of Pyramid? To the best of my recollection, 
Pyramid never aired on NBC as part of a network lineup.  (I remember it on ABC, 
but I think the original run was CBS?) 

NBC did, however have Classic Concentration with Alex Trebeck.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Marti Lawrence 

>
>
>
In the future, the moderators should be allowed to fit a shock collar on 
both nominees, and zap them whenever there is an interruption or continued 
talking past time allotted.
And of course Trump was sniffling because he is a cocaine addict, and 
Hillary is a robot from Westworld because a fly landed on her face and she 
didn't flinch.  At least that is what all-knowing Twitter says :-) 

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[TV orNotTV] Grading moderators Martha Raddatz and Anderson Cooper at the second presidential debate.

2016-10-10 Thread Doug Eastick 
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/10/10/grading_moderators_martha_raddatz_and_anderson_cooper_at_the_second_presidential.html?wpsrc=newsletter_slatest=5388d9c7dd52b8870b01bbf3



FYI.

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[TV orNotTV] This week's J! test

2016-10-10 Thread 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV 
Just a reminder that my wife, Pidge Meade, will be on the Jeopardy episode that 
airs tonight, October 10th. 

--Dave Sikula 

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

2016-10-10 Thread Adam Bowie 
I suspect that it's less whether someone will risk a Mark Burnett lawsuit
(I'm sure there'd be no shortage of people happy to pay the fine), as
whether someone actually has access to the rushes.

I suspect that NBC only ever took delivery of a finished "tape" of the
show, and that after editing was completed, footage was stored away in some
vault somewhere. It would have been sensitive at the time not least because
of the gameshow element - nobody wanting leaks until the episodes had aired
- but also because if Trump truly did say shocking things that were cut,
Burnett's team would have been aware of the potential damage even without
him embarking on a political campaign. It would have damaged the show for
one thing, potentially affecting employment prospects of those who worked
on the show.

Indeed I wonder if the footage even *exists* any longer. It's not hard to
imagine that hard drives or tapes have been wiped. As soon as Trump stood,
I'd imagine that Burnett would either have doubled down on security of the
footage, or expunged it altogether if he is, as reported, a Trump supporter.

It will probably all come down to whether an employee somewhere along the
line, took a copy or something incendiary and squirreled it away somewhere.


Adam

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Doug Eastick  wrote:

> There is now a gofundme campaign to raise $5 million to cover the No Leak
> penalty in employmemt contacts that Burnett had with his employees.I
> guess there's hope that somebody will take that risk.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016, 11:09 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> Have we discussed here the twitter thread where somebody asked Mark Cuban
>> to pay the $5 M penalty that any employee would have to pay for making
>> footage available where Trump uses the N-word in Apprentice outtakes?
>> Apparently Burnett is a big Trump supporter and has vowed to hold everyone
>> accountable to the confidentiality clause he made them sign.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Bob Jersey 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Adam Bowie, to Kevin M and Tom Wolper, in part:
>>
>> The Apprentice footage belongs to Mark Burnett right? Shouldn't he right
>> now be shopping NBC an Apprentice Outtakes special? And yes, I realise that
>> must mean some acknowledgement of how Trump behaved at the time.
>>
>>
>> Burnett has been fighting efforts
>> 
>> to release any Trump outtakes (CBS News link, but largely from Aypee).
>>
>> B
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will Billy Bush be hurt by Trump's vulgar comments about women?

2016-10-10 Thread Doug Eastick 
There is now a gofundme campaign to raise $5 million to cover the No Leak
penalty in employmemt contacts that Burnett had with his employees.I
guess there's hope that somebody will take that risk.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016, 11:09 PM PGage  wrote:

> Have we discussed here the twitter thread where somebody asked Mark Cuban
> to pay the $5 M penalty that any employee would have to pay for making
> footage available where Trump uses the N-word in Apprentice outtakes?
> Apparently Burnett is a big Trump supporter and has vowed to hold everyone
> accountable to the confidentiality clause he made them sign.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Bob Jersey  wrote:
>
>
> Adam Bowie, to Kevin M and Tom Wolper, in part:
>
> The Apprentice footage belongs to Mark Burnett right? Shouldn't he right
> now be shopping NBC an Apprentice Outtakes special? And yes, I realise that
> must mean some acknowledgement of how Trump behaved at the time.
>
>
> Burnett has been fighting efforts
> 
> to release any Trump outtakes (CBS News link, but largely from Aypee).
>
> B
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Doug Eastick 
I liked that Merriam Webster tweeted that one of the top five searches
during the debate was "what's a lepo".


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016, 2:32 AM Henry Fung  wrote:

> Martha Raddatz specifically interjected several times to force Trump to
> answer on Syria. Other than ringing a loud buzzer or repeating "your time
> has expired" repeatedly like what happened in the California senate debate,
> both candidates are going to keep talking past the limit. The debates
> really need to be longer - three hours at a minimum, with allowance for ten
> minute intermissions between the first and second hours - but given only 90
> minutes of time, they did the best job possible, and better than Lester
> Holt who was just bowled over.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:46 PM, PGage  wrote:
>
> Well, I think it has been established a long time ago that we use the term
> "debate" to refer to these events, even if they are not quite Oxford style.
> I was part of a debating team in my youth, but I don't sweat the
> terminology.
>
> But I disagree with the claim that viewers did not get much information
> about the two candidates; on the contrary, for 90 minutes, if you did not
> know anything about these two people, you would have learned quite a bit
> about both of them (Health Care policy, Syria Policy, Tax Policy). What is
> hard to believe is that any serious voter by this late date does not
> already know almost everything there is to know about their positions.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Kevin M. 
> wrote:
>
> It was not a debate. The moderators didn't moderate. Candidates were not
> made to answer the questions asked. Candidates (one significantly more than
> the other) interrupted each other. The audience interrupted repeatedly. As
> theater, I suppose it was entertaining; as a debate, voters would've gotten
> more information had both candidates simply each sent out a single Tweet.
>
> In short I humbly disagree.
>
> On Sunday, October 9, 2016, PGage  wrote:
>
> Without getting too much into how the two participants did, I thought the
> two moderators, Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz, really did a good job.
> That thought forced me to ask myself what my criteria for a good debate
> moderator were. In the past I probably leaned towards wanting the least
> intrusive moderator possible, who allowed the participants significant
> leeway in violating agreed upon rules and tried to avoid making themselves
> the story. Arguably that has never been a good model for a TV presidential
> debate moderator, but almost certainly, with Trump in play, it now is not.
> Cooper and Raddatz both had to work hard tonight, and had to inject
> themselves into things quite a bit, but I think it resulted in a much more
> fair and substantive exchange - and they actually covered quite a bit of
> ground. I suspect Trump partisans are pissed, but they oughtn't be; the
> moderators (and here I suppose I am getting into my view of how the
> participants did) probably saved the debate for Trump by shutting down
> several of his more unstable and incoherent rants during the first third of
> the debate, enforcing time limits, and allowing more questions to be asked.
> Trump did much better in the last two thirds of the debate - I would say
> that part of the show was basically a draw, after coming across as a mad
> man in the first half hour. If the perception of this debate is that it was
> close or a draw, it will only be because of the hard work and
> professionalism of the two moderators. I also wonder if it helps to have
> two moderators work this kind of circus.
>
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>
> --
> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>
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[TV orNotTV] Re: Monday Night Football ratings down; what about NFL as a whole?

2016-10-10 Thread JW 
This week's Monday Morning Quarterback features a section called "TV or not
TV: That is the question" that discusses the election cycle.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/10/10/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-returns-suspension-nfl-week-5

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Debate II

2016-10-10 Thread Henry Fung 
Martha Raddatz specifically interjected several times to force Trump to
answer on Syria. Other than ringing a loud buzzer or repeating "your time
has expired" repeatedly like what happened in the California senate debate,
both candidates are going to keep talking past the limit. The debates
really need to be longer - three hours at a minimum, with allowance for ten
minute intermissions between the first and second hours - but given only 90
minutes of time, they did the best job possible, and better than Lester
Holt who was just bowled over.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:46 PM, PGage  wrote:

> Well, I think it has been established a long time ago that we use the term
> "debate" to refer to these events, even if they are not quite Oxford style.
> I was part of a debating team in my youth, but I don't sweat the
> terminology.
>
> But I disagree with the claim that viewers did not get much information
> about the two candidates; on the contrary, for 90 minutes, if you did not
> know anything about these two people, you would have learned quite a bit
> about both of them (Health Care policy, Syria Policy, Tax Policy). What is
> hard to believe is that any serious voter by this late date does not
> already know almost everything there is to know about their positions.
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Kevin M. 
> wrote:
>
>> It was not a debate. The moderators didn't moderate. Candidates were not
>> made to answer the questions asked. Candidates (one significantly more than
>> the other) interrupted each other. The audience interrupted repeatedly. As
>> theater, I suppose it was entertaining; as a debate, voters would've gotten
>> more information had both candidates simply each sent out a single
>> Tweet.
>>
>> In short I humbly disagree.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 9, 2016, PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> Without getting too much into how the two participants did, I thought
>>> the two moderators, Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz, really did a good
>>> job. That thought forced me to ask myself what my criteria for a good
>>> debate moderator were. In the past I probably leaned towards wanting the
>>> least intrusive moderator possible, who allowed the participants
>>> significant leeway in violating agreed upon rules and tried to avoid making
>>> themselves the story. Arguably that has never been a good model for a TV
>>> presidential debate moderator, but almost certainly, with Trump in play, it
>>> now is not. Cooper and Raddatz both had to work hard tonight, and had to
>>> inject themselves into things quite a bit, but I think it resulted in a
>>> much more fair and substantive exchange - and they actually covered quite a
>>> bit of ground. I suspect Trump partisans are pissed, but they oughtn't be;
>>> the moderators (and here I suppose I am getting into my view of how the
>>> participants did) probably saved the debate for Trump by shutting down
>>> several of his more unstable and incoherent rants during the first third of
>>> the debate, enforcing time limits, and allowing more questions to be asked.
>>> Trump did much better in the last two thirds of the debate - I would say
>>> that part of the show was basically a draw, after coming across as a mad
>>> man in the first half hour. If the perception of this debate is that it was
>>> close or a draw, it will only be because of the hard work and
>>> professionalism of the two moderators. I also wonder if it helps to have
>>> two moderators work this kind of circus.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> TV or Not TV  The Smartest (TV) People!
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TV or Not TV" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
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>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>> --
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