Re: [TV orNotTV] Perry Mason and the case of the HBO cancellation

[Paul Murray]

The Case of the CEO Hunting $3B in Cost Savings

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-4 martil...@gmail.com wrote:

> I loved everything about it.  The actors were superb, the period costumes, 
> décor, and vehicles were complimented by outstanding cinematography.  And 
> the musical score was outstanding!  I’m so sad that we don’t get any more. 
>
> ~Marti
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 12:48:57 AM UTC-5 PGage wrote:
>
>>
>> Disagree. I went back and started over with Season 1, then did Season 2, 
>> and liked both (2>1). Disappointed they are not continuing.
>>
>> I don’t think the number of gay characters was unrealistic. Yes, 2 of the 
>> 4 main characters being gay is a high percentage, but they are not drawn 
>> from the population at random, they know each other, and so we know them, 
>> because they are gay. Once one of them is gay, it is not shocking that 
>> someone else they know is also gay. Plus, as I have noted before, it is an 
>> homage to the fact that half of the actors in the 1960s TV show we’re gay, 
>> and also explains a lot about the relationship between Perry and Della.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 at 5:40 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>>
>>> I would like for some streaming service to resurrect this as maybe a 
>>> trilogy of movies because it has a great cast, but as an episodic series it 
>>> fell into bland minority stereotypes, and making an almost farcical 
>>> percentage of the central characters into closeted gays and lesbians felt 
>>> too contrived. Each season felt like they were stretching what should have 
>>> been movies into multi-episode stories. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/perry-mason-canceled-hbo-1235635233/
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[Paul Murray]

I commented on a WaPo story about this that the writer's strike is a lucky 
break for Colbert in this respect, at least. As much as he liked Licht, it 
would have been impossible to ignore this very public debacle in his 
monologues.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 1:40:48 PM UTC-4 PGage wrote:

> Oh. Right.
>
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 8:42 AM Jim Ellwanger  wrote:
>
>> If he says anything, it won't be on his show, which is still in reruns 
>> due to the writers' strike.
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2023, at 8:38 AM, PGage  wrote:
>>
>> Has Colbert been talking about Licht/CNN at all? If he says anything 
>> tonight would be interested in a report.
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 7:04 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
>> tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Confirmed by the company: 
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/media/chris-licht-cnn (link)
>>>
>>> It came after an "embarrassing" apology at a staff meeting, said 
>>> now-"Reliable Sources" presenter Oliver Darcy:
>>>
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/media/cnn-chris-licht-reliable-sources/index.html
>>>  (link)
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> Adam Bowie, to Tom Wolper etc., June 7th:
>>>
>>> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/8856cea8-32f5-4a87-bdde-b4eb9c5515e0n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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[TV orNotTV] The state of TV in 2023

[Tom Wolper]

New York Magazine has its TV issue out now and the lead article is a long
one about the current state of the streaming industry.

https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/streaming-industry-netflix-max-disney-hulu-apple-tv-prime-video-peacock-paramount.html

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Perry Mason and the case of the HBO cancellation

[Marti Lawrence]

I loved everything about it.  The actors were superb, the period costumes, 
décor, and vehicles were complimented by outstanding cinematography.  And 
the musical score was outstanding!  I’m so sad that we don’t get any more. 

~Marti

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 12:48:57 AM UTC-5 PGage wrote:

>
> Disagree. I went back and started over with Season 1, then did Season 2, 
> and liked both (2>1). Disappointed they are not continuing.
>
> I don’t think the number of gay characters was unrealistic. Yes, 2 of the 
> 4 main characters being gay is a high percentage, but they are not drawn 
> from the population at random, they know each other, and so we know them, 
> because they are gay. Once one of them is gay, it is not shocking that 
> someone else they know is also gay. Plus, as I have noted before, it is an 
> homage to the fact that half of the actors in the 1960s TV show we’re gay, 
> and also explains a lot about the relationship between Perry and Della.
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 at 5:40 PM Kevin M.  wrote:
>
>> I would like for some streaming service to resurrect this as maybe a 
>> trilogy of movies because it has a great cast, but as an episodic series it 
>> fell into bland minority stereotypes, and making an almost farcical 
>> percentage of the central characters into closeted gays and lesbians felt 
>> too contrived. Each season felt like they were stretching what should have 
>> been movies into multi-episode stories. 
>>
>>
>> https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/perry-mason-canceled-hbo-1235635233/
>>
>> -- 
>> Kevin M. (RPCV)
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[PGage]

Oh. Right.

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 8:42 AM Jim Ellwanger  wrote:

> If he says anything, it won't be on his show, which is still in reruns due
> to the writers' strike.
>
> On Jun 7, 2023, at 8:38 AM, PGage  wrote:
>
> Has Colbert been talking about Licht/CNN at all? If he says anything
> tonight would be interested in a report.
>
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 7:04 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Confirmed by the company:
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/media/chris-licht-cnn (link)
>>
>> It came after an "embarrassing" apology at a staff meeting, said
>> now-"Reliable Sources" presenter Oliver Darcy:
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/media/cnn-chris-licht-reliable-sources/index.html
>>  (link)
>>
>> B
>>
>> Adam Bowie, to Tom Wolper etc., June 7th:
>>
>> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>>
>>
>> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[Jim Ellwanger]

If he says anything, it won't be on his show, which is still in reruns due to 
the writers' strike.

> On Jun 7, 2023, at 8:38 AM, PGage  wrote:
> 
> Has Colbert been talking about Licht/CNN at all? If he says anything tonight 
> would be interested in a report.
> 
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 7:04 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV 
> mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>> Confirmed by the company: 
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/media/chris-licht-cnn (link)
>> 
>> It came after an "embarrassing" apology at a staff meeting, said 
>> now-"Reliable Sources" presenter Oliver Darcy:
>> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/media/cnn-chris-licht-reliable-sources/index.html
>>  (link)
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> Adam Bowie, to Tom Wolper etc., June 7th:
>> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>> 
>> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>> 
>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/8856cea8-32f5-4a87-bdde-b4eb9c5515e0n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> .
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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[PGage]

Has Colbert been talking about Licht/CNN at all? If he says anything
tonight would be interested in a report.

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 7:04 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Confirmed by the company:
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/media/chris-licht-cnn (link)
>
> It came after an "embarrassing" apology at a staff meeting, said
> now-"Reliable Sources" presenter Oliver Darcy:
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/media/cnn-chris-licht-reliable-sources/index.html
>  (link)
>
> B
>
> Adam Bowie, to Tom Wolper etc., June 7th:
>
> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>
>
> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>
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> .
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[Steve Timko]

Poynter's story.

https://www.poynter.org/business-work/2023/chris-licht-is-out-at-cnn/

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023, 7:14 AM PGage  wrote:

> I can’s decide if I should loathe or feel sorry for this guy. I guess
> both. He was used badly by Zaslov and then dumped. But he was never more
> than a Wambsgans, and deserves what he gets (which of course will include
> millions of dollars). Meanwhile, it’s not like WBD is suddenly going to
> decide to change directions and go strong on journalism.
>
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 5:45 AM Adam Bowie  wrote:
>
>> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>>
>>
>> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>>
>> On Mon, 5 Jun 2023, 19:50 Tom Wolper,  wrote:
>>
>>> It’s absurd to think that Licht could go back to the Late Show. Colbert
>>> tried to be his own executive producer and it became clear to CBS that he
>>> was in over his head. CBS sent Licht in to give the production some
>>> structure and to relieve the pressure from Colbert. When Licht left for
>>> CNN, the structure stayed and a different EP took over. However Licht would
>>> leave CNN why would Colbert take him back? He would have to fire (or
>>> demote) his current EP who hasn’t done anything wrong. And knowing
>>> Colbert’s sensibilities, plus those of his staff and probably crew, Licht
>>> would be toxic and unable to command any loyalty.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 11:34 AM Mark Jeffries 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The question is if what seems to be happening happens and Licht is out,
 can he come crawling back to Colbert (WGA strike permitting) or is he
 truly done in broadcasting?

 As unlikely as it is, it could still happen.

 Mark Jeffries
 spotligh...@gmail.com


 On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 8:29 PM PGage  wrote:

> One of the Ex-CNN precincts heard from…
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 9:18 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> Very long (9000 words) and very long awaited. I found it was easy to
>> get around the Atlantic paywall be accessing it through the many links on
>> Twitter (is it always that easy to get around paywalls?).
>>
>> I am very surprised that Licht comes off so much worse than even I
>> had previously seen him. I knew he was enthralled to his corporate
>> overlords, but assumed he was also competent and perhaps even talented.
>> Perhaps he is, but not in his current position, and he is lying either to
>> everyone else or himself about what he is doing and why.
>>
>> He repeats the same analogy several times in the piece, trying to
>> convey his sense of what it means to get more balance in CNN’s coverage: 
>> “His
>> network would host people who like rain as well as people who don’t like
>> rain. But, he said, CNN would not host people who deny that it’s raining
>> when it is.”
>>
>> Licht seems clueless to the obvious contradiction here, since by
>> putting Trump and his fluffers on, with little or no effective counter, 
>> to
>> deny the election and justify their attempt to overthrown the
>> Constitutional transfer of power, he is exactly hosting people who deny 
>> it
>> is raining when it is. Licht may or may not be self deluded, but his 
>> bosses
>> are clear eyed - they want CNN to be another conservative News voice.
>> Period. Not more accurate or with more journalistic integrity, just more
>> conservative.
>>
>> As I have been arguing for years, Licht is of course right that there
>> were serious problems with Zucker’s CNN, but the problem was not that 
>> they
>> were too liberal or ideological, but too personal. CNN scored through the
>> Trump era by turning the news into a cult of personality, with so many of
>> the anchors and reporters making the story about themselves. Cooper is 
>> not
>> the most obnoxious, but he pioneered this approach to cable news a long
>> time ago, reporting on war and disaster by telling us more about how it
>> made him feel than what was actually happening. A little of this, in
>> extremis, is gripping (the catch in Cronkite’s voice as he reports the
>> death of a President). As a SOP, it is a disaster.
>>
>> The solution is not to make the staff more like Fox, but to train
>> them to focus on the facts. Licht pays lip service to this, but in 
>> practice
>> is only focused on questions like: “Do gun owning farmers in Kansas like
>> our show?”. And that’s because that is the only kind of question Zaslov 
>> and
>> Malone care about.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 4:14 PM JW  wrote:
>>
>>> From The Atlantic:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/06/cnn-ratings-chris-licht-trump/674255/
>>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Tucker Carlson says he'll take his show to Twitter : NPR

[Tom Wolper]

For a look at the opposite of Carlson’s process just to understand some
context of what’s going on, Pat McAfee was the guest on Jimmy Traina’s SI
sports media podcast. McAfee is a former NFL player who started a 3 hour
daily talk show streaming on YouTube. The show took off like a rocket and
got to extend its reach through major sponsorships. Recently he signed with
ESPN and in the podcast interview he goes through the process of deciding
to go to a network and the negotiating process. I bring this up because
McAfee emphasized over and over again how important having access to the
resources and capacities of a network is. He built his talk show as an
independent business and so he knows the nuts and bolts of running one.

Carlson is going in the opposite direction. He had access to the resources
and capacities of a network and he’s trying to build a new show on his own.
Whatever Tucker stans who are out there will watch it but his power and
influence are gone.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 10:15 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Two NYT reporters watched the début episode... the style was unmistakably
> Tucker, but beyond that, it was just like any podcast...
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/business/media/tucker-carlson-twitter-show.html
>  (link)
>
> B
>
> Moi, May 16th:
>
> New insight into the case in V... a FoxCorp board member spoke with
> Carlson last month, said a source, telling the boy a verbal agreement
> reached as part of the Dominion settlement was the reason for the ouster...
> both sides deny... now the question becomes, if this show does come about,
> will it get shut down?
>
> https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/tucker-carlson-fox-news-exit-dominion-lawsuit-twitter-show-1235613404/
>  (link)
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Actors authorize strike

[Tom Wolper]

The difference here is that actors own their NIL by law. If an actor signs
on for a movie and in the contract is a ceding of rights for digitally
generated sequels, should the terms be negotiated individually (power to
the studio as they make appearing in the first movie contingent) or covered
in a standard way as part of a collective bargaining agreement.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 12:37 AM 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> This scenario isn't that far of a step from the conflicts in the sports
> world over who has rights to name, image and likeness of athletes (usually
> those in the college ranks, but not always) for various commercial
> opportunities.
>
> My sense is *if* it doesn't see discussion in this cycle, it will be an
> issue in the next, assuming the changes don't overtake things.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 05:06:25 PM PDT, Kevin M. <
> drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I can’t help but believe that Justine Bateman’s theories about studios
> using AI and CGI to create deepfakes of actors convincing enough to
> eliminate the need for fresh and blood actors has them spooked. If the
> union starts pushing for likeness residuals or copyright claims on faces,
> bodies, etc, this could be longer and more protracted than what’s going on
> with the WGA.
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 4:32 PM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <
> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Days after directors reached agreement with the Alliance.
>
> https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/sag-aftra-strike-authorization-vote-writers-1235633850/
>  (link)
> B
>
>
>
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/1564253340.462463.1686112642136%40mail.yahoo.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Tucker Carlson says he'll take his show to Twitter : NPR

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

Two NYT reporters watched the début episode... the style was unmistakably 
Tucker, but beyond that, it was just like any podcast...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/business/media/tucker-carlson-twitter-show.html
 (link)

B

Moi, May 16th:

New insight into the case in V... a FoxCorp board member spoke with Carlson 
last month, said a source, telling the boy a verbal agreement reached as 
part of the Dominion settlement was the reason for the ouster... both sides 
deny... now the question becomes, if this show does come about, will it get 
shut down?
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/tucker-carlson-fox-news-exit-dominion-lawsuit-twitter-show-1235613404/
 (link)

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Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

[PGage]

I can’s decide if I should loathe or feel sorry for this guy. I guess both.
He was used badly by Zaslov and then dumped. But he was never more than a
Wambsgans, and deserves what he gets (which of course will include millions
of dollars). Meanwhile, it’s not like WBD is suddenly going to decide to
change directions and go strong on journalism.

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 at 5:45 AM Adam Bowie  wrote:

> Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...
>
>
> https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19
>
> On Mon, 5 Jun 2023, 19:50 Tom Wolper,  wrote:
>
>> It’s absurd to think that Licht could go back to the Late Show. Colbert
>> tried to be his own executive producer and it became clear to CBS that he
>> was in over his head. CBS sent Licht in to give the production some
>> structure and to relieve the pressure from Colbert. When Licht left for
>> CNN, the structure stayed and a different EP took over. However Licht would
>> leave CNN why would Colbert take him back? He would have to fire (or
>> demote) his current EP who hasn’t done anything wrong. And knowing
>> Colbert’s sensibilities, plus those of his staff and probably crew, Licht
>> would be toxic and unable to command any loyalty.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 11:34 AM Mark Jeffries 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The question is if what seems to be happening happens and Licht is out,
>>> can he come crawling back to Colbert (WGA strike permitting) or is he
>>> truly done in broadcasting?
>>>
>>> As unlikely as it is, it could still happen.
>>>
>>> Mark Jeffries
>>> spotligh...@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 8:29 PM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 One of the Ex-CNN precincts heard from…



 On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 9:18 PM PGage  wrote:

> Very long (9000 words) and very long awaited. I found it was easy to
> get around the Atlantic paywall be accessing it through the many links on
> Twitter (is it always that easy to get around paywalls?).
>
> I am very surprised that Licht comes off so much worse than even I had
> previously seen him. I knew he was enthralled to his corporate overlords,
> but assumed he was also competent and perhaps even talented. Perhaps he 
> is,
> but not in his current position, and he is lying either to everyone else 
> or
> himself about what he is doing and why.
>
> He repeats the same analogy several times in the piece, trying to
> convey his sense of what it means to get more balance in CNN’s coverage: 
> “His
> network would host people who like rain as well as people who don’t like
> rain. But, he said, CNN would not host people who deny that it’s raining
> when it is.”
>
> Licht seems clueless to the obvious contradiction here, since by
> putting Trump and his fluffers on, with little or no effective counter, to
> deny the election and justify their attempt to overthrown the
> Constitutional transfer of power, he is exactly hosting people who deny it
> is raining when it is. Licht may or may not be self deluded, but his 
> bosses
> are clear eyed - they want CNN to be another conservative News voice.
> Period. Not more accurate or with more journalistic integrity, just more
> conservative.
>
> As I have been arguing for years, Licht is of course right that there
> were serious problems with Zucker’s CNN, but the problem was not that they
> were too liberal or ideological, but too personal. CNN scored through the
> Trump era by turning the news into a cult of personality, with so many of
> the anchors and reporters making the story about themselves. Cooper is not
> the most obnoxious, but he pioneered this approach to cable news a long
> time ago, reporting on war and disaster by telling us more about how it
> made him feel than what was actually happening. A little of this, in
> extremis, is gripping (the catch in Cronkite’s voice as he reports the
> death of a President). As a SOP, it is a disaster.
>
> The solution is not to make the staff more like Fox, but to train them
> to focus on the facts. Licht pays lip service to this, but in practice is
> only focused on questions like: “Do gun owning farmers in Kansas like our
> show?”. And that’s because that is the only kind of question Zaslov and
> Malone care about.
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 at 4:14 PM JW  wrote:
>
>> From The Atlantic:
>>
>>
>> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/06/cnn-ratings-chris-licht-trump/674255/
>>
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] A long Chris Licht profile

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

Confirmed by the company: 
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/07/media/chris-licht-cnn (link)

It came after an "embarrassing" apology at a staff meeting, said 
now-"Reliable Sources" presenter Oliver Darcy:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/media/cnn-chris-licht-reliable-sources/index.html
 (link)

B

Adam Bowie, to Tom Wolper etc., June 7th:

Dylan Byers at Puck says Licht is out...

https://twitter.com/PuckNews/status/1666423238610526211?t=KWposCVTqhGrVqPATD9brA=19

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