Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread PGage 
I agree with your analysis but not your conclusion. You are right that
Trump is not a Republican, or even a traditional, institutional
conservative. They will hate him, and he hates them. But all of this is I
think why he will be motivated to do something like Trump TV. If he loses
his election (one of the few Republicans who probably could have managed to
do it, at least as easily as it appears he will) and costs the GOP the
Senate, he will play no elder statesman role in the Republican Party, and I
don't see him going back to his reality show on NBC. His hotel brand is
badly damaged.

He never was a majority figure even with the Republican Party - he is the
king of leverage, and in politics, he managed to leverage enthusiastic
support from about a third of the Republican Party into first a plurality
than a majority to get the nomination. I think he will want to create a
space in which he can hear the applause and get the adulation that he is
increasingly not going to be able to find anywhere else. An internet space
for the angry 15% to 25% of the country, where ugly and vile attacks can be
spoken as inconvenient politically incorrect truths would be just what
would sooth his damaged soul. The fact that this would be just about the
worst thing that could happen to the Republican Party would seem to be the
cherry on top for him.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Tom Wolper  wrote:
>
> I'm going to continue to disagree. Trump is not a member of the
> conservative movement. He's not on the same page as the writers of the
> Weekly Standard and National Review and he has no respect for the leaders
> of the movement or their institutions. What he knows about the issues he
> knows from talk radio and FNC pundits. To a narcissist failure comes from
> the betrayal of those around him. Trump will come out of this election with
> a deep grudge against the Republican Party for not giving him the
> full-throated endorsement he needed to bring him a victory. He will look at
> other donor groups like executives from financial services and insurance
> who did not donate to his campaign and he will hold a grudge against them
> as well.
>
> He also knows he is losing his metaphorical megaphone as well. The cable
> news channels are not going to ask his opinions on topics of the day when
> there are active office holders and pundits out there. He is not going to
> hold rallies for tens of thousands of people any more. They backed a loser
> and will move on to find the next charismatic leader. And he has become
> toxic to anybody who is not one of his followers.
>
> When the election is over and the hoopla has died down, Trump is going to
> have to deal with the upcoming Trump University trial, the misuse of funds
> from his foundation, the accusations of predatory sexual behavior, etc. His
> brand and properties will probably take a huge hit from the backlash. I
> don't see him putting in the effort to get a shoestring online media
> operation off the ground.
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread Kevin M. 
If I thought Trump TV would be a conservative network, I'd agree with you,
but consider a network branded to Trump's whims, just like his campaign. No
ideology, no concrete principles or values... let Trump be Trump. To me, it
is media hell, but millions of Americans are currently buying what he's
selling. If even a fraction of them, say 5 percent, literally buy his
media, it would beat most of the competing cable networks.

People forget Ailes is not a staunch conservative either, he's a
pragmatist. He oversaw CNBC's evening talk lineup with Tom Snyder, Phil
Donahue, and a then liberal Geraldo Rivera, among others. His baby, the
America's Talking network -- despite its flaws -- was a mix of political
views. He ultimately aligned FoxNews with the GOP, modeling it after AM
talk radio, which is far more successful with conservative voices than
liberal ones.

We define success a number of ways. Trump could define such a network as a
success, even if the rest of us saw it as a failure.

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016, Tom Wolper  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 3:05 PM, Kevin M.  > wrote:
>
>> I agree with PGage on this one. If all Trump had was a rickety soapbox to
>> stand on, he'd use it to stroke his ego and spout off, Alex Jones style.
>>
>> It is not a stretch to imagine Trump and Roger Ailes collaborating to
>> establish -- not just a TV station -- but a media network, with streaming
>> online content, books, "Harvest Crusade" style gatherings, and on and on. A
>> modern "old boys" club... a legal hate group.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016, PGage > > wrote:
>>
>>> I see. So the argument is not that he can't do a web-based Trump TV, but
>>> that it is not what he wants, because it could not challenge the media big
>>> boys.
>>>
>>> I am not so sure about that though. Yes, he has a bigely and fragile
>>> ego, but I think that what that ego wants is not so much to challenge Fox
>>> News in terms of ratings, revenue or net profits, but to challenge Fox
>>> News, (and Limbaugh and National Review and Drudge) in terms of influence
>>> and leadership in the conservative movement. If Trump could say in 4 years
>>> that nobody can get the GOP nomination without coming on his network, and
>>> maybe even getting his endorsement, I think he would be happy.
>>>
>>
> I'm going to continue to disagree. Trump is not a member of the
> conservative movement. He's not on the same page as the writers of the
> Weekly Standard and National Review and he has no respect for the leaders
> of the movement or their institutions. What he knows about the issues he
> knows from talk radio and FNC pundits. To a narcissist failure comes from
> the betrayal of those around him. Trump will come out of this election with
> a deep grudge against the Republican Party for not giving him the
> full-throated endorsement he needed to bring him a victory. He will look at
> other donor groups like executives from financial services and insurance
> who did not donate to his campaign and he will hold a grudge against them
> as well.
>
> He also knows he is losing his metaphorical megaphone as well. The cable
> news channels are not going to ask his opinions on topics of the day when
> there are active office holders and pundits out there. He is not going to
> hold rallies for tens of thousands of people any more. They backed a loser
> and will move on to find the next charismatic leader. And he has become
> toxic to anybody who is not one of his followers.
>
> When the election is over and the hoopla has died down, Trump is going to
> have to deal with the upcoming Trump University trial, the misuse of funds
> from his foundation, the accusations of predatory sexual behavior, etc. His
> brand and properties will probably take a huge hit from the backlash. I
> don't see him putting in the effort to get a shoestring online media
> operation off the ground.
>
> --
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread Tom Wolper 
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 3:05 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:

> I agree with PGage on this one. If all Trump had was a rickety soapbox to
> stand on, he'd use it to stroke his ego and spout off, Alex Jones style.
>
> It is not a stretch to imagine Trump and Roger Ailes collaborating to
> establish -- not just a TV station -- but a media network, with streaming
> online content, books, "Harvest Crusade" style gatherings, and on and on. A
> modern "old boys" club... a legal hate group.
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016, PGage  wrote:
>
>> I see. So the argument is not that he can't do a web-based Trump TV, but
>> that it is not what he wants, because it could not challenge the media big
>> boys.
>>
>> I am not so sure about that though. Yes, he has a bigely and fragile ego,
>> but I think that what that ego wants is not so much to challenge Fox News
>> in terms of ratings, revenue or net profits, but to challenge Fox News,
>> (and Limbaugh and National Review and Drudge) in terms of influence and
>> leadership in the conservative movement. If Trump could say in 4 years that
>> nobody can get the GOP nomination without coming on his network, and maybe
>> even getting his endorsement, I think he would be happy.
>>
>
I'm going to continue to disagree. Trump is not a member of the
conservative movement. He's not on the same page as the writers of the
Weekly Standard and National Review and he has no respect for the leaders
of the movement or their institutions. What he knows about the issues he
knows from talk radio and FNC pundits. To a narcissist failure comes from
the betrayal of those around him. Trump will come out of this election with
a deep grudge against the Republican Party for not giving him the
full-throated endorsement he needed to bring him a victory. He will look at
other donor groups like executives from financial services and insurance
who did not donate to his campaign and he will hold a grudge against them
as well.

He also knows he is losing his metaphorical megaphone as well. The cable
news channels are not going to ask his opinions on topics of the day when
there are active office holders and pundits out there. He is not going to
hold rallies for tens of thousands of people any more. They backed a loser
and will move on to find the next charismatic leader. And he has become
toxic to anybody who is not one of his followers.

When the election is over and the hoopla has died down, Trump is going to
have to deal with the upcoming Trump University trial, the misuse of funds
from his foundation, the accusations of predatory sexual behavior, etc. His
brand and properties will probably take a huge hit from the backlash. I
don't see him putting in the effort to get a shoestring online media
operation off the ground.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread Kevin M. 
I agree with PGage on this one. If all Trump had was a rickety soapbox to
stand on, he'd use it to stroke his ego and spout off, Alex Jones style.

It is not a stretch to imagine Trump and Roger Ailes collaborating to
establish -- not just a TV station -- but a media network, with streaming
online content, books, "Harvest Crusade" style gatherings, and on and on. A
modern "old boys" club... a legal hate group.

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016, PGage  wrote:

> I see. So the argument is not that he can't do a web-based Trump TV, but
> that it is not what he wants, because it could not challenge the media big
> boys.
>
> I am not so sure about that though. Yes, he has a bigely and fragile ego,
> but I think that what that ego wants is not so much to challenge Fox News
> in terms of ratings, revenue or net profits, but to challenge Fox News,
> (and Limbaugh and National Review and Drudge) in terms of influence and
> leadership in the conservative movement. If Trump could say in 4 years that
> nobody can get the GOP nomination without coming on his network, and maybe
> even getting his endorsement, I think he would be happy.
>
> On Wednesday, 26 October 2016, Tom Wolper  > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 2:02 PM, PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> I am not understanding why a web based "Trump TV" is capital
>>> prohibitive? Can't they just have a parade of Alt-Righties doing hour long
>>> faux news reports, 2 hour commentary/interviews, and talk-radio type
>>> call-ins for 12 hours a day and do ads, maybe with some premium ad-free
>>> content? Trump does not really need to make a lot of money, just not lose a
>>> lot, and feed his ego.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe you or I could do that if we were so inclined, but not Trump. His
>> fragile ego won't let him be in a room with a Murdoch or Bloomberg and have
>> them laugh at how Mickey Mouse his media operation is.
>>
>> --
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread PGage 
I see. So the argument is not that he can't do a web-based Trump TV, but
that it is not what he wants, because it could not challenge the media big
boys.

I am not so sure about that though. Yes, he has a bigely and fragile ego,
but I think that what that ego wants is not so much to challenge Fox News
in terms of ratings, revenue or net profits, but to challenge Fox News,
(and Limbaugh and National Review and Drudge) in terms of influence and
leadership in the conservative movement. If Trump could say in 4 years that
nobody can get the GOP nomination without coming on his network, and maybe
even getting his endorsement, I think he would be happy.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016, Tom Wolper  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 2:02 PM, PGage  > wrote:
>
>> I am not understanding why a web based "Trump TV" is capital prohibitive?
>> Can't they just have a parade of Alt-Righties doing hour long faux news
>> reports, 2 hour commentary/interviews, and talk-radio type call-ins for 12
>> hours a day and do ads, maybe with some premium ad-free content? Trump does
>> not really need to make a lot of money, just not lose a lot, and feed his
>> ego.
>>
>
> Maybe you or I could do that if we were so inclined, but not Trump. His
> fragile ego won't let him be in a room with a Murdoch or Bloomberg and have
> them laugh at how Mickey Mouse his media operation is.
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread Tom Wolper 
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 2:02 PM, PGage  wrote:

> I am not understanding why a web based "Trump TV" is capital prohibitive?
> Can't they just have a parade of Alt-Righties doing hour long faux news
> reports, 2 hour commentary/interviews, and talk-radio type call-ins for 12
> hours a day and do ads, maybe with some premium ad-free content? Trump does
> not really need to make a lot of money, just not lose a lot, and feed his
> ego.
>

Maybe you or I could do that if we were so inclined, but not Trump. His
fragile ego won't let him be in a room with a Murdoch or Bloomberg and have
them laugh at how Mickey Mouse his media operation is.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread PGage 
I am not understanding why a web based "Trump TV" is capital prohibitive?
Can't they just have a parade of Alt-Righties doing hour long faux news
reports, 2 hour commentary/interviews, and talk-radio type call-ins for 12
hours a day and do ads, maybe with some premium ad-free content? Trump does
not really need to make a lot of money, just not lose a lot, and feed his
ego.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016, Tom Wolper  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 1:23 AM, PGage  > wrote:
>
>> In first episode of the Trump Show on Trump TV, Trump says he has no
>> interest in doing a Trump Show or running a Trump TV, despite how bigley it
>> would be...
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 25 October 2016, Steve Timko > > wrote:
>>
>>> Trump says No Trump  TV.
>>> Trump: 'No interest' in Trump TV; campaign debuts show:
>>> http://bigstory.ap.org/65ad38be95bf42d19f25d041d9df5ea4&utm_
>>> source=android_app&utm_medium=copy_to_clipboard&utm_campaign=share
>>> 
>>>
>>
> At this late date, how can anybody think what Trump says has any
> credibility? He gave the right answer, that he is concentrating on the
> election, but if the financing came about (unlikely), he'd talk like he
> never said that there would be no Trump TV.
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-26 Thread Tom Wolper 
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 1:23 AM, PGage  wrote:

> In first episode of the Trump Show on Trump TV, Trump says he has no
> interest in doing a Trump Show or running a Trump TV, despite how bigley it
> would be...
>
>
> On Tuesday, 25 October 2016, Steve Timko  wrote:
>
>> Trump says No Trump  TV.
>> Trump: 'No interest' in Trump TV; campaign debuts show:
>> http://bigstory.ap.org/65ad38be95bf42d19f25d041d9df5ea4&utm_
>> source=android_app&utm_medium=copy_to_clipboard&utm_campaign=share
>> 
>>
>
At this late date, how can anybody think what Trump says has any
credibility? He gave the right answer, that he is concentrating on the
election, but if the financing came about (unlikely), he'd talk like he
never said that there would be no Trump TV.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-25 Thread PGage 
In first episode of the Trump Show on Trump TV, Trump says he has no
interest in doing a Trump Show or running a Trump TV, despite how bigley it
would be...

On Tuesday, 25 October 2016, Steve Timko  wrote:

> Trump says No Trump  TV.
> Trump: 'No interest' in Trump TV; campaign debuts show:
> http://bigstory.ap.org/65ad38be95bf42d19f25d041d9df5e
> a4&utm_source=android_app&utm_medium=copy_to_clipboard&utm_campaign=share
>
>
>
> Not sent from an iPhone.
> On Oct 17, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Jim Ellwanger  > wrote:
>>
>>
>>  On Oct 17, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Kevin M. > > wrote:
>>>
>>>  His brand is bolstered by his antics...
>>>
>>
>> The data seem to be trending in the opposite direction.
>>
>> http://digiday.com/brands/5-charts-trumps-damaged-brand-numbers/
>>
>> --
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-25 Thread Steve Timko 
Trump says No Trump  TV.
Trump: 'No interest' in Trump TV; campaign debuts show: 
http://bigstory.ap.org/65ad38be95bf42d19f25d041d9df5ea4&utm_source=android_app&utm_medium=copy_to_clipboard&utm_campaign=share



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On Oct 17, 2016, 3:35 PM, at 3:35 PM, Jim Ellwanger  
wrote:
>
>> On Oct 17, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Kevin M. 
>wrote:
>> 
>> His brand is bolstered by his antics...
>
>The data seem to be trending in the opposite direction.
>
>http://digiday.com/brands/5-charts-trumps-damaged-brand-numbers/
>
>-- 
>Jim Ellwanger 
>
>
>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-17 Thread Jim Ellwanger 

> On Oct 17, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Kevin M.  wrote:
> 
> His brand is bolstered by his antics...

The data seem to be trending in the opposite direction.

http://digiday.com/brands/5-charts-trumps-damaged-brand-numbers/

-- 
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-17 Thread Steve Timko 
The few rich white men I know loathe Trump. His supporters are the Birthers and 
TEA party types.

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On Oct 17, 2016, 1:47 PM, at 1:47 PM, "Kevin M."  
wrote:
>His brand is bolstered by his antics, just as Paris Hilton bolsters the
>Hilton brand... no such thing as bad publicity.
>
>If Trump's cult of rich white men wants it, they can find the funds to
>create a network for him to mouth off, but I suspect, as was the case
>when
>Romney lost, that Trump will lose most vocal support if (please God) he
>loses. Rich white men only like to back a winner.
>
>On Monday, October 17, 2016, Doug Eastick  wrote:
>
>> If he loses the election, it will be interesting to see how his brand
>gets
>> damaged from the fallout of the election.  Probably something he
>didn't
>> foresee.
>>
>> Who knows, maybe he's Extreme Bigly Smarter than I am.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Tom Wolper > > wrote:
>>
>>> Two articles out today say no. One looks only at a cable channel and
>the
>>> other considers Cable TV and a subscription streaming service. Both
>say
>>> that a startup would cost cost hundreds of millions and would take
>years to
>>> break even. Trump does not put his own money into projects and his
>>> reputation with banks is so awful that they won't provide startup
>>> investment.
>>>
>>>
>http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-trump-tv-probably-wont-happen
>>>
>>> http://fortune.com/2016/10/17/trump-tv-fail/
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-17 Thread Kevin M. 
His brand is bolstered by his antics, just as Paris Hilton bolsters the
Hilton brand... no such thing as bad publicity.

If Trump's cult of rich white men wants it, they can find the funds to
create a network for him to mouth off, but I suspect, as was the case when
Romney lost, that Trump will lose most vocal support if (please God) he
loses. Rich white men only like to back a winner.

On Monday, October 17, 2016, Doug Eastick  wrote:

> If he loses the election, it will be interesting to see how his brand gets
> damaged from the fallout of the election.  Probably something he didn't
> foresee.
>
> Who knows, maybe he's Extreme Bigly Smarter than I am.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Tom Wolper  > wrote:
>
>> Two articles out today say no. One looks only at a cable channel and the
>> other considers Cable TV and a subscription streaming service. Both say
>> that a startup would cost cost hundreds of millions and would take years to
>> break even. Trump does not put his own money into projects and his
>> reputation with banks is so awful that they won't provide startup
>> investment.
>>
>> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-trump-tv-probably-wont-happen
>>
>> http://fortune.com/2016/10/17/trump-tv-fail/
>>
>> --
>> --
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>>
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Will there be a Trump TV?

2016-10-17 Thread Doug Eastick 
If he loses the election, it will be interesting to see how his brand gets
damaged from the fallout of the election.  Probably something he didn't
foresee.

Who knows, maybe he's Extreme Bigly Smarter than I am.



On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Tom Wolper  wrote:

> Two articles out today say no. One looks only at a cable channel and the
> other considers Cable TV and a subscription streaming service. Both say
> that a startup would cost cost hundreds of millions and would take years to
> break even. Trump does not put his own money into projects and his
> reputation with banks is so awful that they won't provide startup
> investment.
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-trump-tv-probably-wont-happen
>
> http://fortune.com/2016/10/17/trump-tv-fail/
>
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