Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Matthew Nuzum]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Brett Alton  wrote:
>> Well, we already have an education page, which can be found at:
>> http://www.ubuntu.com/education .
>>
>
> That's very well done, but can we get a link on the front page?

Not today but soon. We're working on improving the content on the
interior portions of the site so that we can have "portal" pages.
Pages that are like a home page but specific to a certain target
audience. The education page is the first. Rich and the edu team did a
fabulous job on that page. Now we need more.

If you have some suggestions for portal pages and want to work on
content (either in rough form or polished form) you are WELCOME to
help. Please do. Especially I'd love to have something for developers.

This is a topic for the web presence team mailing list or IRC chat
room though. Feel free to send a message to the mailing list or ping
me on IRC if you'd like to steer one.

I believe the best payment I can give people who volunteer or help out
is praise and encouragement so if you do want to own one of these
everyone I know on twitter, identi.ca and facebook will know how much
you rock. :-)

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Brett Alton]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Jonathan Davies  wrote:
> 2009/1/15 Brett Alton :
>> Maybe post some information on the Ubuntu website how OpenOffice.org
>> can save/edit/read Microsoft Office documents? What about a wizard for
>> installing the Internet (DSL, dial-up, etc.)? As for the educational
>> section of Ubuntu, what about schools giving out more information to
>> their students about alternative operating systems and programs such
>> as Ubuntu, Mac, OpenOffice.org, etc. with Canonical actually provides
>> that information to the IT departments? Maybe an education.ubuntu.com
>> section is in order, where Canonical can explain to high school and
>> college students why Ubuntu is so fantastic for their campus life
>> (security, reliability, lack of viruses, alternate programs, etc.) and
>> how they can use it to fit right in with their Windows counterparts.
>
> Well, we already have an education page, which can be found at:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/education .
>
> --
>  Jonathan
>

That's very well done, but can we get a link on the front page?

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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Celeste Lyn Paul]

On Thursday 15 January 2009 03:17:34 pm petr bug wrote:
> Dereck 
>
> > "Software Library" reflects what it really is IMHO.
>
> Or Program Catalog or Application Repository (a packager's preferred :-) )
> or

You know, I was sitting here trying to think of alternatives to Library and I 
think Catalog works better. I like the sound of "Application Catalog".  
Library seems to play too much on metaphor, but Catalog has a similar 
feeling/meaning without invoking too much real world meaning.  


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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Aaron Toponce]

Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> And even when it was called "Add/Remove Programs", it was overwhelmingly
> used for uninstalling programs, not for installing them. It offered no
> selection of programs you could install.

Yes, you can install software in the "Add/Remove Programs" utility in
the control panel. I believe they're called "components" or something to
that effect. It's just not games, office productivity software, or web
browsers. But, nonetheless, you can install software.

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Brett Alton wrote:


http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184

This girl in the United States ordered an Ubuntu-loaded Dell laptop by
accident, expecting it came with Windows. She was confused due to
Ubuntu 7.10's inability to load her Verizon Internet CD (which she
doesn't actually need) and that Microsoft Office was incompatible with
it (even though she could use OpenOffice.org).

Now, Ubuntu has already come a long way from 7.10, but I am posting
this to the ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-education and ubuntu-website
mailing lists because I believe this story's message is important: How
do we ensure that previous Windows users are comfortable using Ubuntu?

Maybe post some information on the Ubuntu website how OpenOffice.org
can save/edit/read Microsoft Office documents?


That probably wouldn't have helped Abbie since she couldn't connect to 
the Internet at all, but it would help others considering switching to 
Ubuntu in the first place. (Compare the first question on

.)

Canonical's Design team is planning a redesign of the Ubuntu Web site 
sometime this year, and this is one case we'll consider. We look 
forward to working with the Web Presence Team in that redesign process.



   What about a wizard for
installing the Internet (DSL, dial-up, etc.)?
...


That would also help, along with smarter behavior from Firefox when you 
aren't connected to the Internet. (That is, it shouldn't say "Firefox 
can't find the server at www.ubuntu.com"; it should say "This computer 
is not connected to the Internet", with a button for setting up your 
connection.)


Cheers
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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Rick Spencer wrote:


On 01/15/2009 10:46 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote:


Except those who are coming from Windows, which is a larger userbase
than those coming from the iPhone or Android markets, are used to the
Add/Remove programs in the Control Panel.


Actually, this has gotten kind of muddled in Windows. It is now
something called "Programs and Features", which is yet another control
panel that launches wizards for individual applications that you may
have installed (or can install depending if you are in a corporate
environment that supports it).
...


And even when it was called "Add/Remove Programs", it was 
overwhelmingly used for uninstalling programs, not for installing them. 
It offered no selection of programs you could install.


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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[petr bug]

Dereck 
> "Software Library" reflects what it really is IMHO.

Or Program Catalog or Application Repository (a packager's preferred :-) ) or

Gadgets Database or some other combination. People usually do not care about

name of a tool as long as it does what they want. And as long as they can

find the right tool based on what they want.

Perhaps users want a "Software Library" but certainly they want to "Add or

Remove Programs".

Once they see "Add or Remove Programs" they realize a mental match and click

it. Title of the window that appears next is less important - they already

know it is related to adding or removing programs, as long as the window

appears before they loose track of what effect was caused by which click (few

seconds).

Tomasz Dominikowski:
> I don't think Ubuntu should be
> influenced by design decisions in a single phone (iPhone) and a niche
> (for now) phone platform.

Partially valid. Ubuntu should be influenced if a) the design is clever or b)

makes transition easier for many users and is not more stupid than current

design. However there are still too few users of iPod or Android and I

believe the proposed name is less clever.

> I would suggest focusing on things that are really broken.

Matter of opinion. Example:

1) Abiword crashes under certain circumstances.
2) Friend of mine could not establish openvpn connection because VPN wizard

asked him questions he did not understand although the fields were not

necessary.

Most coders I met assign higher priority to a crash (no matter how rare) than

to any user-interaction problem.

2009/1/15 Rick Spencer :
> I think the proposal addresses more than a usability problem, I think it
> was put forth also to capitalize on a perception opportunity. In other
> words, perhaps having a "place" to go is something that users think is
> rather cool. We have such a place, but we don't position it as such.

Propagating a feature (a name for "place") is good for news announcement and

for word of mouth on forums, there is to be read not to be used.

In short: Keep the current one, though I appreciate the initiative.

Petr

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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Aaron Toponce]

Rick Spencer wrote:
> Problem:
> Platforms such as iPhone and Android have given users the expectation 
> that there is a "place" that they can to in order to install new 
> software. Ubuntu has good functionality for this, but the name 
> "Add/Remove..." is not in line with users' expectations because it isn't 
> a "place".

Except those who are coming from Windows, which is a larger userbase
than those coming from the iPhone or Android markets, are used to the
Add/Remove programs in the Control Panel.

Also, keeping it "Add/Remove" shows the user can do an action to the
system. When the user thinks of a place, generally it will be a
folder/directory or a site on the web (which is where the "place" is
coming into play on the iPhone/Andriod).

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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Dereck]

+1

I think that would also bring down the 'fear' level that some windows users
have of "installing" or "downloading" on their computers.

"Software Library" reflects what it really is IMHO.

~Dereck


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Rick Spencer wrote:

> All -
>
> A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the
> "Add/Remove..." menu item.
>
> Problem:
> Platforms such as iPhone and Android have given users the expectation
> that there is a "place" that they can to in order to install new
> software. Ubuntu has good functionality for this, but the name
> "Add/Remove..." is not in line with users' expectations because it isn't
> a "place".
>
> Solution:
> Change the name of "Add/Remove..." to "Software Library".
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers, Rick
>
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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Rick Spencer]

On 01/15/2009 10:29 AM, Rick Spencer wrote:
> All -
> 
> A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the 
> "Add/Remove..." menu item.
> 
> Problem:
> Platforms such as iPhone and Android have given users the expectation 
> that there is a "place" that they can to in order to install new 
> software. Ubuntu has good functionality for this, but the name 
> "Add/Remove..." is not in line with users' expectations because it isn't 
> a "place".
> 
> Solution:
> Change the name of "Add/Remove..." to "Software Library".
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Cheers, Rick
> 
I'd like to add an important element to the rationale and see if it 
impacts anyones thoughts.

I think the proposal addresses more than a usability problem, I think it 
was put forth also to capitalize on a perception opportunity. In other 
words, perhaps having a "place" to go is something that users think is 
rather cool. We have such a place, but we don't position it as such.

Does this change anyone's thoughts regarding the proposal?

Cheers, Rick

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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Oliver Grawert]

Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 11:01 -0800 schrieb Rick Spencer:
> On 01/15/2009 10:53 AM, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> > i doubt she would have that thorough understanding from an opaque name
> > like "software library" 
> Interesting, so you feel that "software library" is opaque. Perhaps 
> there is another "place" name that would have worked for her?
well, the thing is that it isnt a "place" but the button in the menu to
add or remove menuitems. for her it directly does what she expects it to
do and she immediately understands the concept because the app itself
visually connects to teh menu structure.
i'm not sure she would understand the concept of a "software place" as
replacement that easily ...

ciao
oli


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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Tomasz Dominikowski]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Rick Spencer
 wrote:
> All -
>
> A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the
> "Add/Remove..." menu item.
>
> Problem:
> Platforms such as iPhone and Android have given users the expectation
> that there is a "place" that they can to in order to install new
> software. Ubuntu has good functionality for this, but the name
> "Add/Remove..." is not in line with users' expectations because it isn't
> a "place".
>
> Solution:
> Change the name of "Add/Remove..." to "Software Library".
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers, Rick

Thoughts? This is a non-issue. The way it is now is completely
understandable to most users. I don't think Ubuntu should be
influenced by design decisions in a single phone (iPhone) and a niche
(for now) phone platform. In my opinion, it is borderline ridiculous.
This would be change just for the sake of change. I hope you will be
able to explain that to documentation writers, translators and those
who provide Ubuntu training courses, because the "place" rationale is
far from being enough to warrant any change at all. I would suggest
focusing on things that are really broken.

Regards,
   Tomasz Dominikowski


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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Rick Spencer]

On 01/15/2009 10:53 AM, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> i doubt she would have that thorough understanding from an opaque name
> like "software library" 
Interesting, so you feel that "software library" is opaque. Perhaps 
there is another "place" name that would have worked for her?

Cheers, Rick

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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Rick Spencer]

On 01/15/2009 10:46 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> Except those who are coming from Windows, which is a larger userbase
> than those coming from the iPhone or Android markets, are used to the
> Add/Remove programs in the Control Panel.
Actually, this has gotten kind of muddled in Windows. It is now 
something called "Programs and Features", which is yet another control 
panel that launches wizards for individual applications that you may 
have installed (or can install depending if you are in a corporate 
environment that supports it).

Cheers, Rick


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Re: Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,

Am Donnerstag, den 15.01.2009, 10:29 -0800 schrieb Rick Spencer:
> All -
> 
> A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the 
> "Add/Remove..." menu item.
> 
can you elaborate what the reason for this is ?

imho this feature (and its naming as well as its design) is one of the
most powerful UIs we have in ubuntu.

Add/Remove was initially designed to refer to the menu and intrestingly
my completely computer illiterate 75 year old mother instantly
understands that she can add and remove applications to/from her menu
with it, it reflects the menu in so many places that she really gets the
purpose ... 

i doubt she would have that thorough understanding from an opaque name
like "software library" 

ciao
oli


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Re: Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Tony Yarusso]

Honestly, I don't think this is Ubuntu's fault, nor something that can
possibly be addressed.  It is absolutely true that we need to make the
experience as comfortable and intuitive as possible for people looking
to switch, or who just don't care what OS they have, but it's fairly
absurd to expect someone who _wanted_ Windows to be okay with Ubuntu.
This is especially true considering that they _paid_ extra for
Windows, so if that isn't delivered, there is a problem, but it's a
problem with Dell, not Ubuntu.

I'm also inclined to think this is a user that can't be catered to
properly by any operating system, and some of the other points of the
article are either misrepresented there, or incorrect information was
given in the first place.

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Please Comment: Proposal to change the name of Applications -> Add/Remove...

[Rick Spencer]

All -

A proposal has been put forward to change the name of the 
"Add/Remove..." menu item.

Problem:
Platforms such as iPhone and Android have given users the expectation 
that there is a "place" that they can to in order to install new 
software. Ubuntu has good functionality for this, but the name 
"Add/Remove..." is not in line with users' expectations because it isn't 
a "place".

Solution:
Change the name of "Add/Remove..." to "Software Library".

Thoughts?

Cheers, Rick

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Belinda A. Lopez]

On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:55 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote:

> Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
>> She really wanted Windows, didn't she? We should focus on making the
>> operating system good for people who actually want something else,  
>> not
>> people who receives the wrong product. There are guides for new users
>> and these should obviously receive continuious attention, though I
>> feel they're already quite nice. It's not likely that users expecting
>> Windows will ever be happy to get Ubuntu instead. I certainly  
>> wouldn't
>> be, if I thought I'd ordered Windows.
>
> I'm curious how she landed and Ubuntu-installed Dell laptop if she
> didn't want it. I mean, of anything, when customizing, didn't she pay
> attention to the operating system listed? Last I checked, you have to
> intentionally search for the Ubuntu computers, as Dell doesn't feature
> them on the main page of the site.
>

Dell's websites are a UI nightmare.  Not only will you get different  
options depending on which portal you enter (regular dell.com, using  
the EPP sites or other special site like from an ad) but even when  
you are trying to buy an Ubuntu machine, the windows logo still  
appears on many of the pages with the phrase "Dell recommend  
Microsoft Windows".

I *attempted* to buy 4 mini 9s or Christmas gifts, ordered 1 December  
and there was only one secret way to get the minis in different  
colors.  If you go through the link that says Open Source machines,  
the only options shown are the black and white models.  If you go  
through the mini link on the main page then you can switch to Ubuntu  
in the OS choices and get the full color options.  Dell then canceled  
the order when they couldn't ship as promised and gave me a new ship  
date in January.  I ended up canceling the order and getting Acer  
Aspire Ones.

You can start out buying a Windows machine and then select Ubuntu OS  
in the customise section, folks probably see the lower price and  
select but may not even know what Ubuntu is.

The one upside is that there are now many Ubuntu mini machines in the  
Dell Outlet section at really good prices that were either  
"previously ordered new" or returns.  Before Christmas there were  
none - I checked daily.

cheers,

Dinda

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Aaron Toponce]

Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
> She really wanted Windows, didn't she? We should focus on making the
> operating system good for people who actually want something else, not
> people who receives the wrong product. There are guides for new users
> and these should obviously receive continuious attention, though I
> feel they're already quite nice. It's not likely that users expecting
> Windows will ever be happy to get Ubuntu instead. I certainly wouldn't
> be, if I thought I'd ordered Windows.

I'm curious how she landed and Ubuntu-installed Dell laptop if she
didn't want it. I mean, of anything, when customizing, didn't she pay
attention to the operating system listed? Last I checked, you have to
intentionally search for the Ubuntu computers, as Dell doesn't feature
them on the main page of the site.

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

She really wanted Windows, didn't she? We should focus on making the
operating system good for people who actually want something else, not
people who receives the wrong product. There are guides for new users
and these should obviously receive continuious attention, though I
feel they're already quite nice. It's not likely that users expecting
Windows will ever be happy to get Ubuntu instead. I certainly wouldn't
be, if I thought I'd ordered Windows.

Kind regards,

Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Re: [ubuntu-web] Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Jonathan Davies]

2009/1/15 Brett Alton :
> Maybe post some information on the Ubuntu website how OpenOffice.org
> can save/edit/read Microsoft Office documents? What about a wizard for
> installing the Internet (DSL, dial-up, etc.)? As for the educational
> section of Ubuntu, what about schools giving out more information to
> their students about alternative operating systems and programs such
> as Ubuntu, Mac, OpenOffice.org, etc. with Canonical actually provides
> that information to the IT departments? Maybe an education.ubuntu.com
> section is in order, where Canonical can explain to high school and
> college students why Ubuntu is so fantastic for their campus life
> (security, reliability, lack of viruses, alternate programs, etc.) and
> how they can use it to fit right in with their Windows counterparts.

Well, we already have an education page, which can be found at:
http://www.ubuntu.com/education .

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Girl gets Ubuntu on a Dell by mistake, absolutely hates it...

[Brett Alton]

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184

This girl in the United States ordered an Ubuntu-loaded Dell laptop by
accident, expecting it came with Windows. She was confused due to
Ubuntu 7.10's inability to load her Verizon Internet CD (which she
doesn't actually need) and that Microsoft Office was incompatible with
it (even though she could use OpenOffice.org).

Now, Ubuntu has already come a long way from 7.10, but I am posting
this to the ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-education and ubuntu-website
mailing lists because I believe this story's message is important: How
do we ensure that previous Windows users are comfortable using Ubuntu?

Maybe post some information on the Ubuntu website how OpenOffice.org
can save/edit/read Microsoft Office documents? What about a wizard for
installing the Internet (DSL, dial-up, etc.)? As for the educational
section of Ubuntu, what about schools giving out more information to
their students about alternative operating systems and programs such
as Ubuntu, Mac, OpenOffice.org, etc. with Canonical actually provides
that information to the IT departments? Maybe an education.ubuntu.com
section is in order, where Canonical can explain to high school and
college students why Ubuntu is so fantastic for their campus life
(security, reliability, lack of viruses, alternate programs, etc.) and
how they can use it to fit right in with their Windows counterparts.
Maybe in a desktop tour like so:
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/810features/

Please make sure to watch the video as well as read the article as it
originally aired as a television broadcast
(http://www.wkowtv.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=881&h1=Dell%20computer%20mix-up&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=167833&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=79171153)

Read Digg user responses here:
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Causes_Girl_To_Drop_Out_of_College

The responses are mostly positive towards Ubuntu and however much I
agree, I do believe Ubuntu can do a bit more work in documenting the
transition from Windows to Ubuntu a bit better. Maybe even an entire
guide, along with the Education section, with a link right on the
homepage. (e.g. this means moving the website away from technical
details and towards educating new users)

Please, everyone, let me know your thoughts.

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