Re: Default App: GNOME Weather
On 2017-06-09 06:24 AM, Sebastien Bacher wrote: > Hey, > > Le 09/06/2017 à 11:09, Jeremy Bicha a écrit : >> GNOME Weather is a simple app to show you the weather. It is written >> in gjs. It has been part of GNOME core since GNOME 3.20. It has no >> universe runtime dependencies and is well-maintained in Debian and >> Ubuntu. I don't believe there has been any security issue with this >> app. >> >> If GNOME Weather is installed in GNOME 3.24+ (Ubuntu 17.04+), GNOME >> Shell's clock menu will also show you the current weather. > > That could be a nice small one to add indeed, few comments/questions > > - is having more things using gjs going to make it more difficult to > update mozjs/gjs for security reasons? We still have no strategy on how to update mozjs for security vulnerabilities. Having it parse code that came out of a repository is one thing, but having it parse untrusted content downloaded from the internet, or render multimedia content is problematic. Does the desktop team have a strategy for supporting mozjs for the 5 year duration of an LTS release? > > - is gnome-weather detecting your current location or just using the > configured timezone? > > - if it's guessing your location what service is it using and how > accurate is it? And can that service be used in a commercial product? Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
[Bug 1688627] Re: Amazon web app needs an implemetation that does not require webbrowser app
I'm not ok with having epiphany in main at this time. While there have been a number of webkit2gtk security updates recently, at this point in time we don't know how long it will continue to be maintained upstream in an API/ABI compatible way that would make it supportable for an LTS release. For now, I recommend just having it be used by applications in main that don't parse untrusted content. Is there any reason why we don't just open it in the default browser? What would be the benefit in opening it in a browser the user doesn't normally use? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop, which is a bug assignee. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1688627 Title: Amazon web app needs an implemetation that does not require webbrowser app To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webapps-applications/+bug/1688627/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hi, On 2017-04-24 09:53 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Marc Deslauriers > <marc.deslauri...@canonical.com> wrote: >> gtk4 is currently at version 3.90. If I understand the new upstream >> versioning >> scheme correctly[1], gtk4 won't have a stable API/ABI until around 4.6. > > That is an obsolete proposal. The plan now [1] is for the stable > version to start at 4.0. That stable version is supposed to be more > like GTK+ 2.24 or 3.22. Oh! That new plan makes much more sense. > >> Does this mean we'll be shipping an LTS release for 18.04 that contains >> desktop >> applications built with a version of gtk4 that is considered by upstream to >> be a >> pre-release version that we'll then need to support for 5 years? > > GNOME Developers have said that is their intent. [2] > >> How are we going to handle upgrading to the final API/ABI stable version that >> developers are going to target with their applications? > > Developers outside of GNOME should continue to target GTK+ 3.22 until > GTK+ 4.0 is released. > > If this is a problem for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, now is a great time to > bring it up to GNOME since GNOME just released 3.25.1 and nothing has > switched yet. Since they will be bumping the soname, it will be a bit easier to ship both the pre-release version and eventually the final 4.0 version once it becomes stable. The packaging may need to reflect that now perhaps by having a distinct name and not creating a major soname symlink. Not sure what the policy is here... Or perhaps the best thing to do is not to ship gtk4 apps until it's released. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hi, On 2017-04-24 07:00 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > The Nautilus developer suggested that Nautilus 3.26 might use gtk4. > Nautilus is fairly standalone and doesn't need to be updated at the > same time as the rest of GNOME. The GTK+ developers were hoping that > part of GNOME would have been using gtk4 for 3.24 which did not > happen, so we'll see what happens here. I have uploaded an initial > gtk4 package to the Artful new queue and the GNOME3 Staging PPA. I don't quite understand this. gtk4 is currently at version 3.90. If I understand the new upstream versioning scheme correctly[1], gtk4 won't have a stable API/ABI until around 4.6. Does this mean we'll be shipping an LTS release for 18.04 that contains desktop applications built with a version of gtk4 that is considered by upstream to be a pre-release version that we'll then need to support for 5 years? How are we going to handle upgrading to the final API/ABI stable version that developers are going to target with their applications? Marc. [1] - https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/ -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu policy for WebKit security updates?
Hi, On 2016-09-13 05:14 PM, Adam Dingle wrote: > This article from Michael Catanzaro is sobering: > > https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2016/02/01/on-webkit-security-updates/ > > It essentially makes two points: > > 1. WebKit 1 contains many security vulnerabilities that will probably never be > fixed, and yet some apps (e.g. Geary, GnuCash) still depend on it. > > 2. For WebKit 2, the WebKit team fixes vulnerabilities only in its latest > stable > and unstable versions, yet many distributions including Ubuntu don't generally > upgrade users to these versions, and don't backport security fixes to previous > versions (which would be hard). > > Considering this second point, Xenial (16.04 LTS) contains libwebkit2gtk-4.0 > version 2.10.9-1ubuntu1, which was apparently last updated in March 2016. It > is > presumably vulnerable to all the security bugs in WebKitGTK's more recent > security advisories, which include numerous arbitrary code execution > vulnerabilities: > > https://webkitgtk.org/security/WSA-2016-0004.html > https://webkitgtk.org/security/WSA-2016-0005.html > > As Michael points out, this is concerning because many apps (including > Epiphany, > which I often use for browsing) use WebKit. He writes: > > Some of the more notable users include Anjuta, Banshee, Bijiben (GNOME > Notes), > Devhelp, Empathy, Evolution, Geany, Geary, GIMP, gitg, GNOME Builder, GNOME > Documents, GNOME Initial Setup, GNOME Online Accounts, GnuCash, gThumb, > Liferea, > Midori, Rhythmbox, Shotwell, Sushi, and Yelp (GNOME Help). > > It appears that Ubuntu has three policy choices: > > 1) Upgrade users of existing Ubuntu releases such as Xenial to newer stable > WebKit 2 versions (e.g. 2.12.5, where all known vulnerabilities are fixed). > The > cost of this is potential breakage if a new version of WebKit 2 isn't > completely > compatible with the old. As Michael points out, WebKit 2 "ensures that each > release maintains both API and ABI compatibility", but of course bugs are > possible and he admits that "there is some risk" that an update could break > something. > > 2) Backport all security fixes to older WebKit versions such as 2.10. This is > almost certainly impractical. > > 3) Keep users at existing WebKit 2 versions with known vulnerabilities (e.g. > 2.10.9 in Xenial). > > Has Ubuntu consciously chosen policy (3) over (1)? If so, this feels unwise > to > me. I think the breakage in (1) would probably be minimal since I've often > built a newer WebKit 2 on an existing Ubuntu release and it has always worked > fine in existing apps as far as I can tell. > I will be publishing 2.12.5 as a security update for xenial tomorrow or thursday. I was going to publish 2.12.4, but there was a regression in it. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
On 2014-12-11 08:25 AM, Björn Torkelsson wrote: 2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert o...@ubuntu.com mailto:o...@ubuntu.com: hi, Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson: the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way, i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions have become massively less from having notifications. i read them, notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will vanish. i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your own work flow. i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with content, not with desktop elements ... I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and does not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the notification and can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away. If you can't move the pointer, you wouldn't be able to dismiss it even if it was clickable. The other case is when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification and/or for some reason want to make it persistent. Notifications become persistent in the indicators. Clicking the appropriate indicator should bring you to the actual application which should then allow you to copy the required text. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
Hello, On 2014-12-11 12:25 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote: hi, Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml Wow. Just wow. so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as personal opinion) ... i want to make something very very clear: I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL ! everything i said in this thread is my own opinion *as a user of the system* while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i make *no decisions at all* over any desktop design. seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ??? *SIGH* I am not speaking for Canonical either. I'm not a designer. I'm not on the desktop team. I'm in no way responsible for that decision. I was simply stating my personal opinion. I think the notification system we have now is a step up and a definite improvement over the old-style click-to-dismiss notifications we had in Gnome 2. Again, just my opinion. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
On 2014-12-09 09:21 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would be lovely :) On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play can't catch me, they become more transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them. On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of them. Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same? I sure hope so. There's nothing I hate more than having a notification in the way that you have to click to dismiss to see what's underneath. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Computer should NOT shutdown from Guest or Standard user while an Administrator user is still logged in
On 14-04-02 06:49 AM, Amr Ibrahim wrote: Hi all, I filed this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1300658 and here is its description: Computer should not shutdown/restart from a Guest session or from a Standard user session while there is still an Administrator user logged in. This is a major regression from Ubuntu 12.04 and poses a huge data loss potential. The easy way to solve this is to follow 12.04's policy. The computer can not shutdown/restart from any session while there are any other session logged in regardless it is an Administrator, Standard or Guest session. The hard way is to follow this proposed policy: (A) Guest session can not shutdown/restart while there are any sessions logged in regardless they are Standard or Administrator users. (B) Standard user can not shutdown/restart while there is an Administrator user or another Standard user logged in. (C) Standard user can shutdown/restart while there is a Guest session logged in. (D) Administrator user can shutdown/restart while there is a Standard or Guest session logged in. (E) Administrator user can not shutdown/restart while there is still another Administrator user logged in. 1- In case of (A), a Guest tries to shutdown/restart, a message should pop up telling the Guest that s/he can not shutdown/restart but the session can be logged off, and maybe give a reason for that. 2- In case of (B), a Standard user tries to shutdown/restart, a message should pop up telling the Standard user that s/he can not shutdown/restart but the session can be logged off, and maybe give a reason for that. 3- In case of (C), a Standard user tries to shutdown/restart, a message should pop up telling the Standard user that s/he can shutdown/restart but the Guest could lose their data if not saved on external storage such as a USB stick, and advice him/her to log off that session first then shutdown/restart. 4- In case of (D), an Administrator user tries to shutdown/restart, a message should pop up telling the Administrator user that s/he can shutdown/restart but other users could lose their data if not saved, and advice him/her to log off those sessions first then shutdown/restart. 5- In case of (E), an Administrator user tries to shutdown/restart, a message should pop up telling the Administrator user that s/he can not shutdown/restart but the session can be logged off, and maybe give a reason for that. I hope this issue is fixed by the time 14.04 is released because I think this poses a huge data loss potential. I disagree with your reasoning. It's preventing users who have console access from shutting down the machine that will result in data loss, as they will simply fallback to using the power button or the magic sysrq key. If the user does not have console access, then it's reasonable that they would not be allowed to shut down if other users are logged in. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Computer should NOT shutdown from Guest or Standard user while an Administrator user is still logged in
On 14-04-02 08:29 AM, Amr Ibrahim wrote: I disagree with your reasoning. It's preventing users who have console access from shutting down the machine that will result in data loss, as they will simply fallback to using the power button or the magic sysrq key. If the user does not have console access, then it's reasonable that they would not be allowed to shut down if other users are logged in. Marc. -- OK, I agree with you Marc. If the user has console access, then, at least, s/he should be presented with a warning message of data loss of other users. Or a better solution is to advise the user of the correct action (as described in the bug) and let him/her decide. There's some historical discussion, and design for the warning dialogs in this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-greeter/+bug/861171 Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Staying on GTK/GNOME 3.8 next cycle/for the LTS?
On 13-10-02 05:25 AM, Adam Dingle wrote: On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le 01/10/2013 21:16, Adam Dingle a écrit : I've used Ubuntu every day for 7 years and am active in the GNOME community. The fact that Ubuntu lags one release behind GNOME is already a significant burden for me. I often spend time building the newest version of GNOME apps, which can be challenging since Ubuntu's libraries lag behind. If Ubuntu stays with 3.8 for Saucy+1 (i.e. starts to lag two releases behind GNOME), I'd quite possibly switch to Fedora or Debian. Staying with 3.8 could be fine for most users, especially if Canonical wants to focus most of its energy on phones and tablets. But for anyone who wants to use the latest GNOME apps and especially anyone who wants to contribute to GNOME development, two releases back is just too much. adam Hey Adam, I'm sorry to read that Ubuntu being behind on GNOME releases is a burden for you :/ Can I ask if that's the opinion of an user, or from a developer wanting to contribute to GNOME? I'm somewhere between those, but actually more of a user. In other words, I report a lot of bugs and like to comment on the very latest features, but don't make many code contributions myself. There's a continuous spectrum from users to power users to developers, and I think in a healthy software ecosystem they can all run the same codebase. Suppose that developers are running release A and users are all running release B. The greater the distance in time between A and B, the harder it is to get a useful feedback loop from users to developers (and vice versa). I think Ubuntu's lag behind the latest GNOME has contributed to the feeling of separation between the Ubuntu and GNOME communities, for better or for worse. The closer we stay with upstream GNOME, the more the desktop ships with stuff that is simply broken and doesn't work properly because of lack to time to get all the integration and bug polishing done. As a user, are you willing to sacrifice a nice, polished, desktop with few bugs to be able to get a more bleeding edge GNOME? Anyway, I know I may not be a completely typical Ubuntu user. The deeper story here is that it feels like Ubuntu is slowly separating from GNOME, and lagging 2 releases behind GNOME (for the first time ever in Ubuntu's history, I believe) may just be the next step in that process. Lagging behind for stability reasons for an LTS doesn't mean we're separating from GNOME. It just means we want our LTS to be rock-solid by concentrating effort on fixing all the nagging bugs in a stable code base instead of spending all our time fixing everything that breaks from using the latest version. Latest release and buggy, or lagging behind and rock solid. Pick one. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Staying on GTK/GNOME 3.8 next cycle/for the LTS?
On 13-10-01 01:45 PM, Sebastien Bacher wrote: I think we should stick with GNOME 3.8 another cycle, here are the reasons why: I think this is a great idea, and will give us time to iron out all the current bugs before the LTS. For one, screen locking is all broken _again_, and really needs to get fixed before the LTS so Ubuntu can get used in enterprise scenarios. - it's a LTS cycle, we should focus on bugs fixing if possible - GTK 3.10 deprecates several options, it would be good to stay away from those controverses for the LTS (see https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228886 as an example of what is going to happen once we deprecate those options) We don't have enough time in the GNOME 6 month cycle to properly stabilize it enough for an LTS release. Staying on 3.8 will give us a chance to catch up. - it seems like the next RedHat enterprise edition is going to be based on GNOME 3.8, if that's the case it would make sense for us to focus on bringing quality to the same version/share the maintainance work a bit Even better. We'll be helping maintain an older release that someone will actually care about. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
[Bug 841541] Re: num lock is on warning remains even after num lock is turned off (thinkpad, numlock status for laptop and external keyboard different)
** Changed in: gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu Precise) Assignee: Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) = Canonical Desktop Team (canonical-desktop-team) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop, which is a bug assignee. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/841541 Title: num lock is on warning remains even after num lock is turned off (thinkpad, numlock status for laptop and external keyboard different) To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/841541/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
[Bug 925474] Re: Find remote keys function is completely broken
** Tags added: rls-p-tracking ** Changed in: seahorse (Ubuntu Precise) Milestone: None = ubuntu-12.04-beta-1 ** Changed in: seahorse (Ubuntu Precise) Assignee: (unassigned) = Ubuntu Desktop (ubuntu-desktop) ** Changed in: seahorse (Ubuntu Oneiric) Status: New = Confirmed ** Changed in: seahorse (Ubuntu Oneiric) Importance: Undecided = Medium -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop, which is a bug assignee. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/925474 Title: Find remote keys function is completely broken To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/seahorse/+bug/925474/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 12:28 +0100, Mathieu Comandon wrote: upload it very easily to my PPA. The real problem in my opinion is that this would send the wrong message from the Ubuntu Desktop team to the upstream Compiz project. It basically says We only support compiz as long as it's tied to Unity, but not for anything else. With Ubuntu being the single major distro shipping with Compiz, I think it has now a role to play in maintaining the WM it's tied to in good shape, and not only for Unity related stuff. This has nothing to do with Unity. CCSM was breaking people's desktops long before Unity came around. Saying that removing CCSM only benefits Unity isn't accurate. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 11:28 -0500, Jorge O. Castro wrote: With tools like MyUnity now in universe, and didrocks putting basic configuration in the control panel I'd like to propose the removal of compizconfig-settingsmanager. I don't mean stop telling people to use it or add a warning, I mean total removal from the archive until the tool is either better tested or doesn't break people's configuration. Here are some of the problems with the tool. +1 Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 16:48 +, Alan Bell wrote: On 26/01/12 16:28, Jorge O. Castro wrote: With tools like MyUnity now in universe, and didrocks putting basic configuration in the control panel I'd like to propose the removal of compizconfig-settingsmanager. How do we turn on and configure compiz enhanced zoom for visually impaired users? (turning it on by default would be cool, super+mousewheel to activate and mouse polling set to 15ms please) we have some text cursor tracking arriving for this soon too. Maybe this should get added to the Universal Access section of the System Settings app? How do we turn on the negative and color filter and opacity/brightness/saturation plugins for users who like to use them or for application developers to test applications to see how they would be perceived by colorblind users? These could get added in a sane way to MyUnity or similar. How do we turn on a different switcher for people who can't get their heads round the unity application switcher (that would be me) and want to use shift switcher or the default switcher? This is an advanced use case...you install ccsm from a PPA, and assume the risk of using it. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 11:02 -0600, Micah Gersten wrote: On 01/26/2012 10:28 AM, Jorge O. Castro wrote: With tools like MyUnity now in universe, and didrocks putting basic configuration in the control panel I'd like to propose the removal of compizconfig-settingsmanager. I don't mean stop telling people to use it or add a warning, I mean total removal from the archive until the tool is either better tested or doesn't break people's configuration. Here are some of the problems with the tool. - It's possible to accidentally uncheck the Unity plugin, breaking the user's desktop. - It has a load of checkboxes for plugins that we don't support, allowing infinite combinations of untested options, which result in either a broken desktop or a misconfigured one. - People report these bugs, and instead of fixing real bugs we have to deal with corner case bugs for things we never plan on supporting. - Since it's settings are separate from Unity a unity --reset doesn't fix it, you have to blow away .compiz or some other dotfile directories to get a desktop back. - Alex Chiang has documented some of the issues he's run into here: http://askubuntu.com/a/80590/235 - I'm sure at UDS you've seen didrocks show you one of the ways it breaks even when using parts of it that shouldn't break. MyUnity is a better user-facing tool anyway for those that want to play, it would be a shame to have the ccsm tool ship in an LTS. If anyone cares about it they can plop it in a PPA. -1, CCSM isn't just for unity, but any other desktop that uses compiz. I'm wondering if other desktops even work with the newer compiz in the archive. In any event, adding a Breaks unity to compizconfig-settings-manager wouldn't be unreasonable IMHO. CCSM breaks other desktops also, not just Unity, and novice users are installing it to customize their desktop without being aware of the damage they can cause. Other desktops should gain a reasonable settings manager, much like MyUnity. Having an advanced tool being used by a large quantity of novice users and ends up leaving them with an unusable desktop is problematic. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 12:16 -0500, Andrew Starr-Bochicchio wrote: - People report these bugs, and instead of fixing real bugs we have to deal with corner case bugs for things we never plan on supporting. This is a very real problem, but simply getting rid of CCSM doesn't sound like the ideal solution. From an Ubuntu perspective, identifying buggy plug-ins and not installing those might make more sense. More generally, the Compiz project should probably review what it can realistically support. Simply nuking the tool to configure these options doesn't make their code paths go away. Until someone fixes CCSM so it doesn't nuke people's desktops, I think adding a big fat warning, or removing it from the archive sounds like a resonable compromise. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 11:24 -0600, Micah Gersten wrote: CCSM breaks other desktops also, not just Unity, and novice users are installing it to customize their desktop without being aware of the damage they can cause. Other desktops should gain a reasonable settings manager, much like MyUnity. Having an advanced tool being used by a large quantity of novice users and ends up leaving them with an unusable desktop is problematic. Marc. Because novices are using a power user tool does not mean we should remove a power user tool. I think attention just needs to be called to the problems that can be caused and what better tools exist for novice users. Places like askubuntu.com and the Ubuntu forums would be good places to evangelize this as well as omgbuntu and maybe webupd8. Those are the exact places that are telling novices to install CCSM in the first place :P Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 22:57 +0100, Jan Claeys wrote: Marc Deslauriers schreef op do 26-01-2012 om 12:26 [-0500]: Those are the exact places that are telling novices to install CCSM in the first place :P At least partially because Ubuntu *removed* the tools that allowed end-user-friendly settings in recent releases...? Oh? What tool did we have to configure compiz besides CCSM? Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 01:57 +0100, Mathieu Comandon wrote: One thing I agree with is that CCSM does not play well with Unity and, yes, it's very easy to mess your Unity install with it. But I'm not concerned by that, I don't use Unity. The fact that I don't use Unity doesn't mean that I would be willing to use any other WM than Compiz, CCSM was breaking compiz desktops way before Unity came along. People were breaking their Lucid desktops trying to get the cube working. And even Ubuntu, which strongly relies on Compiz, is not fair with this project. The majority of bugs seen while playing with CCSM are only related to Unity, without Unity things are still not perfect but it's way harder to break one's desktop. I disagree. Of course, the correct way to solve this issue is far more complicated than just removing a package from the archive, it require solving bugs, bringing new code in Unity while avoiding unwanted side effects on compiz and basically requires more manpower. If someone would step up and fix CCSM so a novice user can't mess up their desktop with two mouse clicks, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 01:40 +, Oli Warner wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: Of course, the correct way to solve this issue is far more complicated than just removing a package from the archive, it require solving bugs, bringing new code in Unity while avoiding unwanted side effects on compiz and basically requires more manpower. If someone would step up and fix CCSM so a novice user can't mess up their desktop with two mouse clicks, we wouldn't be having this discussion. By that logic we should probably remove: rm mv sudo nano ... They're all installed by default. CCSM isn't and you can do a lot more damage with any of those than CCSM alone. Straw man argument. If a large quantity of novice users were breaking their desktops with those tools, we would be looking at preventing that, or trying to determine _why_ it is happening. This is about CCSM, and the fact that a large number of people are having irrecoverable problems with it. CCSM is very obviously a power tool. Power tools very obviously allow you to screw things up. It's how we deal with those breakages that defines how usable Ubuntu is. This is the problem. CCSM is a power tool in sheep's clothing. It's the tool forums and web sites tell novice users to use to customize their desktop, and it doesn't _look_ like something that can prevent your session from working with two mouse clicks. Removing it from the archive so better tools like MyUnity and Ubuntu Tweak get used instead is one idea. Maybe slapping a big fat warning dialog on it could be another. But stepping back we have two options. a) yours and b) mine. a) We hide all the tools. Make nothing except silly icon sizes editable. Remove all the other session types. Stop the user writing to the filesystem. I'm getting progressively sillier but that's how I see this suggestion. The place of a maintainer of an operating system is not to tell users what they *can* do, it's to facilitate what *they* want to do. You're seeing it wrong. b) We fix things so that even if the user (or CCSM) breaks things, they can get back to sanity. Yes, we should be doing this also. But fixing the popular tools that are used by novice users so they don't break everything in the first place is a good first step. The major problem is that it only takes a gnat's fart for Unity to fall over and not get back up. Make it more robust: - When you log in under a Unity session, check to see that compiz has sane settings (that include Unity) and if they don't, fix them silently. This is part of the problem. What exactly are sane settings? Do we revert half the stuff that people have attempted to customize with CCSM? If so, why not just remove those settings? - You're 10 seconds into the session, is compiz even running? If the settings get so borked up that compiz can't start, detect this, purge dodgy settings and try loading compiz again. Well, having compiz crash is one thing, and that's easy to detect. But having a novice user wonder why he can't resize windows anymore, or why alt-tab isn't working is harder to fix. CCSM's problems: - Remove the checkbox next to the Unity plugin. People are clicking it by accident, so rather than nuke the tool, just make it more user-proof. Yes, that's one of them. There are a whole slew of other checkboxes there that also break various desktop functionality. - If CCSM is killing compiz the new compiz-monitoring logic should swoop in and clean up after it. Again, that's just if it's failing. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: It's time to jettison CCSM
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 20:49 -0500, Jason J. Herne wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Oli Warner o...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Marc Deslauriers - If CCSM is killing compiz the new compiz-monitoring logic should swoop in and clean up after it. How about a Ubuntu - Last Known Good Configuration session, or detect a Unity crash upon login and offer to fall back to the last known good unity configuration or a sane default? Yeah, some kind of Reset desktop settings safe-mode kind of thing could be nice. Although, it's not just about detecting crashes. Some failures cause users to have certain elements of their desktop go missing, without necessarily being a crash. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Desktop12.04-Topic] Working VNC (or no VNC)
On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 11:13 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: Le mardi 04 octobre 2011 à 14:00 -0700, Bryce Harrington a écrit : Pitti had mentioned a couple months ago that this is an -fglrx specific issue, which well could me; if that can be confirmed, we could just have Alberto add it to the AMD bug escalation list for 12.04. What do you think? In fact https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/353126 would have been a better bug to point, comments in both bugs list users having the issue on nvidia, ati and intel. There is not a lot of intel users comment so maybe those are another issue or bogus and it might be that the nvidia issue is fixed. In any case it would be nice to at least do a call for testing on Oneiric to see where we stand and if it's driver specific. If the issue is fglrx specific then escalating to amd seems a good idea indeed FYI, On Natty, I experienced the issue on my Intel laptop, but not on my Nvidia laptop. I've added the xdamage workaround before upgrading to Oneiric, so I don't know if it's fixed or not. I use the remote desktop functionality both when I'm not at home, and for tech support to my family, so if it gets removed, it would be nice to have an alternative take it's place... Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Language Chooser at Login 3: The Choosening (or: Keyboard Selector)
On Mon, 2011-09-12 at 15:53 -0500, Christopher James Halse Rogers wrote: Rovanion in #ubuntu-devel brought to me a problem that's related to the lack of language selector - we also don't have a keyboard selector. I don't think I've seen this discussed before, and I think it should be addressed. The problem description here is: You have a multi-user system with multiple keymaps. This could be dvorak/qwerty, or latin/cyrillic is apparently common. Different users can then have passwords using different keymaps, which means that unity-greeter needs to be able to understand this. Either unity-greeter would need to cache each user's keymap and automatically switch keymap for the password field, or use something like the keyboard indicator in the greeter. Oh, interesting...I had not thought of this issue before. In a multilingual setup, of course the user must be able to actually select the right keyboard to at least type in his password. I guess the keyboard selector at the login screen is necessary after all... Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Language chooser at login
On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 12:44 +1000, Robert Ancell wrote: From what I've gathered talking to people the classes of user are: 1. Users who set the system language at install/first boot time, and never change it (the vast majority) 2. English as a second language users, who switch between their native language and English (this is a class of user I don't understand well). I think the reason for this is because the translations are not always good enough? Is this a power user feature? 3. Testers/developers who want to easily change language for testing (their requirements should not be exposed to normal users) There is also: 4. People who create accounts for additional users In that scenario the tools that create accounts need to be modified to have a place to set the user's language and keyboard. This is a _legal_ issue in certain multilingual countries where it's unacceptable for a user to login to the wrong language and keyboard and try and find a control panel setting to change the default. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Language chooser at login
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 13:06 +1000, Robert Ancell wrote: On 04/07/11 21:57, Marc Deslauriers wrote: On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 12:44 +1000, Robert Ancell wrote: From what I've gathered talking to people the classes of user are: 1. Users who set the system language at install/first boot time, and never change it (the vast majority) 2. English as a second language users, who switch between their native language and English (this is a class of user I don't understand well). I think the reason for this is because the translations are not always good enough? Is this a power user feature? 3. Testers/developers who want to easily change language for testing (their requirements should not be exposed to normal users) There is also: 4. People who create accounts for additional users In that scenario the tools that create accounts need to be modified to have a place to set the user's language and keyboard. The Oneiric Control Center allows the language to be set for a user when they are created. There is not a setting for keyboard, however as a computer has a single physical keyboard and the system layout will match it this doesn't seem to be a big issue (i.e. if a user wants to use a keyboard layout that does not match the keyboard they are probably advanced, and can select it from the control center with the mouse only). This is only valid if the physical keyboard is plugged into the computer that is actually running the X session. In VDI environments where the desktop is in the cloud, which is something that will become more and more common, the physical keyboard plugged into the server has no relation to the keyboard preferences of the different users who are logged in. Using the system keyboard by default is probably fine for Oneiric though, as it will cover most uses. The user creation tool should probably be fixed to add keyboard layout in future releases though before running desktops in the cloud becomes a popular enterprise scenario. This is a _legal_ issue in certain multilingual countries where it's unacceptable for a user to login to the wrong language and keyboard and try and find a control panel setting to change the default. Could you elaborate on what this legal issue is? Note as above if the system administrator has correctly setup a user their language will be correct on login. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_bilingualism_in_Canada and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_the_French_Language If the administrator can set the default language when creating a new user, it should be fine. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Default Browser
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 10:36 -0500, Micah Gersten wrote: Since now both Firefox and Chromium have committed to rapid release schedules, I think it's time to reevaluate the default browser in Ubuntu. I am concerned that some of these upgrades might break system integration at some point. While the security team does its best to prevent regressions, we can't test every case (especially ones we don't know about :)). Perhaps, if we can find one with sufficient features, switch to a Webkit based browser with a more normal release schedule (6 months). We could have an installer like Kubuntu does to install Firefox or Chromium on demand. This will also keep the system documentation current within the release as the screenshots/menus won't be out of date shortly after release. I suspect this will be problematic for certain websites that only work with a whitelist of common browsers, such as banking sites. At this point in time, Firefox has the advantage that regular users can pretty much count on it working everywhere. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for Natty Feedback!
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 06:28 +1030, Jason Warner wrote: I'd like to hear people's thoughts on Unity...and I'd like it to be pretty unfiltered and raw. In particular, I'm interested in seeing how people feel about: So, now that the binary nVidia driver is working in Natty, I was able to try Unity out. I've been playing with it for about 45 minutes now, and here are my observations: I like the overall look of things. The Unity launcher on the left is neat. Not having menus in applications is weird at first glance, especially when you don't see them by default in the top bar. I thought the menus were broken until I put my mouse at the top of the screen and they appeared. Discoverability is a little odd until you know about it, and then it's fine. Having the menu appear half way over the name of the applications looks bad though. It kind of looks like it's broken. I haven't discovered where my applications are yet. I clicked on the big button on the top left hand corner, which popped up a nice looking dialog. Unfortunately the search bar doesn't seem to find anything, and the find icons don't do anything when I click on them. I assume this is unfinished, and is a known issue so I won't file a bug unless otherwise told to. Since that wasn't working, I tried hitting Alt-F2 to start an application, but that doesn't seem to work either. For now, I'll just start my apps using the command line. So, starting a terminal, the first thing I notice is it puts the terminal underneath the launcher, and the launcher goes away. The only way I've figured to get the launcher back is to move the terminal away from the edge of the screen. This is kind of irritating. New windows shouldn't get placed underneath the launcher, and there has to be some way of getting the launcher back without moving stuff out of the way. Second thing I notice, is there doesn't seem to be a way to start an application more than once. How do I open more than one terminal? How do I open more than one text editor? I seriously hope this will be possible. I can understand that certain applications, such as Evolution, should only be started once, but surely the terminal and the text editor are exceptions to this. Especially when using multiple workspaces. I am a heavy workspace user, and have been for years. Using multiple workspaces is the way I deal with doing more than one task at a time. A workspace for email and communications, a workspace for something I'm working on, a workspace for another task, etc. I want to check something out? Switch to an unused workspace and open a new browser. I used to think only power-users used workspaces, but to my surprise, family members who I've converted to Ubuntu have discovered workspaces by themselves and use them regularly. Unfortunately, workspaces are hard to use under Natty. The workspace switcher icon doesn't have previews, so it's hard to figure out where my stuff is. Clicking on the icon reveals a seasickness-inducing animation of all my workspaces entering the screen. But, I can't select any. At least, I _though_ I couldn't select any, until I finally noticed that I need to click _once_ on the icon, and then _double-click_ on the window I want to select. Switching between windows in a current workspace is hard also, as the launcher displays arrows beside applications that reside on different workspaces. When I click on the Firefox launcher that has an arrow, am I bringing up a firefox from this task, or will the launcher catapult me into another workspace altogether and try and make me guess where I've ended up? In all, I really like Unity and am looking forward to the bugs and usability issues to be cleared up. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Call for Testing: webkit
Hello, I have prepared security updates for webkit for Karmic, Lucid and Maverick that fix a ton of security issues. Since these updates actually update webkit to version 1.2.5, they are currently in -proposed and are awaiting positive feedback. Here is a list of some of the applications that use webkit: - devhelp - empathy - midori - epiphany-browser - banshee - shotwell - rhythmbox - liferea - gimp Please leave positive feedback or report any issues in the following bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit/+bug/660075 Thanks! Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
