Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On 04/12/2011 05:31 AM, Javier Jardón wrote: On 8 April 2011 00:23, Robert Ancell robert.anc...@canonical.com wrote: Can we get all our CD applications using GTK3? I'm thinking of Firefox here, we really don't want to have one or two applications requiring both packages on the CD.. FYI: Firefox GTK+3 port: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627699 Awesome! -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 16:21 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote: On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:03 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: Hi, The idea was never really dropped but it's not likely it will be an official focus for the team, contributions to help getting it working better are welcome though Hey, .. I'm planning on working on those issues in Oneiric almost exclusively, but I can't tell how much time am I going to have right now. Is anyone aware of https://launchpad.net/ubuntugnome ? It might seem that they are not aware of It's OK for contributors to fix this in Ubuntu itself. Maybe someone could ask them to work on getting the Stracciatella session prepped. Should help the project as a whole. rather than having several groups trying to do the same thing. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On 8 April 2011 00:23, Robert Ancell robert.anc...@canonical.com wrote: Can we get all our CD applications using GTK3? I'm thinking of Firefox here, we really don't want to have one or two applications requiring both packages on the CD.. FYI: Firefox GTK+3 port: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=627699 -- Javier Jardón Cabezas -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 09:12 +1000, Robert Ancell wrote: On 04/07/2011 05:59 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: Hello all, kind of obvious topic, but next cycle we'll need to move to GTK3 and GNOME3. Aside from the obvious update the package versions, I see the following particular challenges: * Review our patches, and be rather aggressive about removing those which are intrusive and which we have carried for ages without upstream acceptance. Of course there are also still patches which we haven't even proposed upstream, these should be discussed in bugzilla.gnome.org. * Port pygtk2 apps to PyGI with GTK3. The biggest ones are ubiquity and software-center, but there is also quite a long tail of smaller upstream software. * Discuss GTK3 theming with UX/design. Our current murrine based Humanity theme doesn't work with GTK3. I expect that this will bind a lot of developer capacity next cycle, but at the same time it's very important that we do this to not lose track with GNOME. Martin One issue we need to tackle is the use of clutter. Applications are moving towards using clutter (e.g. cheese) and my experience with clutter has been: - Requires good 3D support - Has never seemed to work well for me... We need to work out early if we can have a hard dependency on clutter or not, and what happens if you can't run clutter applications. As discovered with enabling cairo's GL backend in bug #725434¹, if a lot of apps pick up dependencies on clutter it will have a non-trivial impact on memory usage on the nvidia binary drivers. Not much that we can do about it, but it's another thing to consider. [1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/725434 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 09:59 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit : kind of obvious topic, but next cycle we'll need to move to GTK3 and GNOME3. Aside from the obvious update the package versions, I see the following particular challenges: Hello, (You stole my topic! ;-) Joke aside we should do the GNOME3 and GTK3 transition next cycle to be ready for the lts and it's likely to be quite some work. I agree on dropping the old patches we have when not required but we also need to think about what some of those mean for your user experience, we have quite some which have been added in reply to real needs we found that upstream didn't always address so we should at least have a least of things that will not apply and discuss whether it's find to drop them or we need to rewrite those. Random examples of things in this case: the keyboard layout indicator (or the other indicators which are patches over GNOME2 notification area icons), setting a default system layout from the keyboard capplet, etc Cheers, Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 10:32 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 09:59 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit : kind of obvious topic, but next cycle we'll need to move to GTK3 and GNOME3. Aside from the obvious update the package versions, I see the following particular challenges: Hello, (You stole my topic! ;-) Joke aside we should do the GNOME3 and GTK3 transition next cycle to be ready for the lts and it's likely to be quite some work. Is Getting GNOME3 really worth it? GTK3 maybe for the parts which are required for Unity.. Several caplets have been removed, not just hiding options. (I'm sure you guys remember the GDM theming removal issue :p ) In GNOME3 even fonts cannot be changed easily. If we removing easy ways to change a details, Launchpad would be a *very* noisy for us. I dont think we might even get it in time for our LTS schedule.. (couldnt find any info regarding that.) If we compare the previous 10.04 LTS and what could be 12.04 LTS with GNOME3(3.0?/3.2?), there could be a lot of feature parity. Maybe it is better we wait for Gnome3 to mature a bit more before we jump into it.. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 11:22 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda a écrit : Hmm.. I'd like to propose bringing back the idea of the Stracciatella session, and making it possible to get both GNOME3 and Gtk+3 applications to look and behave as close as possible to what users get in other distributions. Hi, The idea was never really dropped but it's not likely it will be an official focus for the team, contributions to help getting it working better are welcome though Cheers, Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 17:00 +0530, Vishnoo a écrit : Is Getting GNOME3 really worth it? GTK3 maybe for the parts which are required for Unity.. Yes, we need to move away from old unmaintained and deprecated technology for their modern equivalent (gtk2 to gtk3, gconf to dconf, dbus-glib to gdbus) and the easier way to do that is to update to GNOME3. But as you said we need to check that we don't break on the way what we consider important to our users, that's what I mentioned in the other emails on that list, we should make a list of things that GNOME3 is deprecating and that we think should still be available for Ubuntu users and find a way to bring those back either by working on upstream to add them back or by finding equivalents or writing new code. -- Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:03 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 11:22 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda a écrit : Hmm.. I'd like to propose bringing back the idea of the Stracciatella session, and making it possible to get both GNOME3 and Gtk+3 applications to look and behave as close as possible to what users get in other distributions. Hi, The idea was never really dropped but it's not likely it will be an official focus for the team, contributions to help getting it working better are welcome though Hey, I know it hasn't been dropped, but there is still quite a lot of work left to be done, so I'd like to have a list of things that have to be done to make GNOME Shell a first class citizen in Oneiric created during UDS-O. I know it has been discussed during last UDS with GNOME developers to some extent, so it's possible that the list is at least partially done already. Some of the changes required are trivial, like explicitly setting LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 to disable new scrollbars, but some other, like restoring the default GtkStatusIcon behaviour for all applications. will take quite a lot of time and effort, and will require some help from both Desktop and Ayatana teams to make it happen. I'm planning on working on those issues in Oneiric almost exclusively, but I can't tell how much time am I going to have right now. Cheers, KK signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On 04/07/2011 05:59 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: Hello all, kind of obvious topic, but next cycle we'll need to move to GTK3 and GNOME3. Aside from the obvious update the package versions, I see the following particular challenges: * Review our patches, and be rather aggressive about removing those which are intrusive and which we have carried for ages without upstream acceptance. Of course there are also still patches which we haven't even proposed upstream, these should be discussed in bugzilla.gnome.org. * Port pygtk2 apps to PyGI with GTK3. The biggest ones are ubiquity and software-center, but there is also quite a long tail of smaller upstream software. * Discuss GTK3 theming with UX/design. Our current murrine based Humanity theme doesn't work with GTK3. I expect that this will bind a lot of developer capacity next cycle, but at the same time it's very important that we do this to not lose track with GNOME. Martin One issue we need to tackle is the use of clutter. Applications are moving towards using clutter (e.g. cheese) and my experience with clutter has been: - Requires good 3D support - Has never seemed to work well for me... We need to work out early if we can have a hard dependency on clutter or not, and what happens if you can't run clutter applications. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] GTK3/GNOME3
On 04/07/2011 05:59 PM, Martin Pitt wrote: Hello all, kind of obvious topic, but next cycle we'll need to move to GTK3 and GNOME3. Aside from the obvious update the package versions, I see the following particular challenges: * Review our patches, and be rather aggressive about removing those which are intrusive and which we have carried for ages without upstream acceptance. Of course there are also still patches which we haven't even proposed upstream, these should be discussed in bugzilla.gnome.org. * Port pygtk2 apps to PyGI with GTK3. The biggest ones are ubiquity and software-center, but there is also quite a long tail of smaller upstream software. * Discuss GTK3 theming with UX/design. Our current murrine based Humanity theme doesn't work with GTK3. I expect that this will bind a lot of developer capacity next cycle, but at the same time it's very important that we do this to not lose track with GNOME. Martin Can we get all our CD applications using GTK3? I'm thinking of Firefox here, we really don't want to have one or two applications requiring both packages on the CD.. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
