ages
often have different perceptions of what a symbol is.
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having competing OSes
is for everybody to simply switch over to Windows, either.
The best *short-term* solution is for someone to tell them that if
they're interested, they can contact us directly and we'll see what we
can work out. We could probably work out AAT support for their
specific font without too much trouble.
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, the meaning of these numbers.
Roughly, characters with a frequency of 1 are more commonly used than
those with a frequency of 2, and so on.
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John H. Jenkins
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should use the loopy form to ensure appropriate contrast
with the straight form used for U+03D5.
What annotation in 3.2 do you feel is incorrect?
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John H. Jenkins
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e the
character palette (in the keyboard menu) or install Apple's font tools
<http://developer.apple.com/fonts> and use ftxinstalledfonts with the
-U option. Both of these work with astral characters.
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gt;, which works on Mac OS X and can
handle the astral planes.
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this purpose.
For people on Mac OS X, there is a set of tools available for download
from <http://developer.apple.com/fonts/> which, like TTX, can decompile
table from TrueType and OpenType fonts and let the user edit the
results. These *do* support astral characters.
======
John
There are some ideographs (e.g., anything with the bone radical) which
have different appearance in simplified and traditional Chinese, even
though the two have been unified in Unicode. Identifying a text as
simplified vs. traditional could help in automatic font selection.
==
John
plain text.
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John H. Jenkins
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On Google, "year of the goat" has the
lead.
Systran has sheep. KangXi says (if I'm understanding it correctly) something like "animal with curved horns." (It's more complex than that, but I think I caught the essence.)
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. Otherwise any of the free Greek
fonts on the Internet would work.
On Mac OS 9, the situation is a bit grimmer, as there aren't many
Unicode-savvy applications. SUE would be one option. You should be
able to find it using Google.
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for "on," and so on.
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pages.
Well, not from Apple's, anyway. Several GB18030 fonts come with Mac OS
X 10.2, but we don't have a license to make them freely downloadable.
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John H. Jenkins
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mimics this style of handwriting
and uses such abbreviations, then you would need the font
to ligate "mm" sequences into a *glyph* showing an "m" with
an overbar.
Remembering, of course, to use ZWNJ to mark places where this ligature
may not be used.
==
John H. Jenkins
.
Yes, this is something we do now.
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John H. Jenkins
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93.
That's because the file was converted to UTF-8. Previously it had not
been in any single encoding, which was creating problems.
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d an important
adjunct to the Unihan database, I'm not sure I'd want to use these
readings if I were developing a commercial-grade product or writing a
scholarly treatise.
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ookup Web page at
<http://www.unicode.org/charts/unihan.html>.
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so that people don't have
to rewrite their perl scripts and other parsers. I know you're asking
if we could add an XML format *in addition* to the non-XML one, but
given the size of Unihan.txt, that isn't likely.
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John H. Jenkins
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Is it possible to regenerate the Unihan database with the correct
secondary
Mandarin readings ?
Certainly in the Unicode 4.0 time-frame we can improve things. I can't
make any guarantees, however.
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John H. Jenkins
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On Friday, November 29, 2002, at 05:23 AM, Theodore H. Smith wrote:
What is wrong? Is it something to do with font fallbacks? I am not
touching font fallbacks at all. All I did was set the FontID for my
ATSUStyle object, to that for Monaco plain.
I'm a bit stuck here, can someone help? I thou
ll, could you please contact me so I can ask a
few more questions? Thanks a lot.
You could send my questions to me and I can have them circulated to the
proper people.
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nt, point
size, and other typographic preferences. Indeed, it becomes
inconvenient to have them in a different layer as it means that the
client has to do *two* levels of processing to derive this information,
rather than just one.
=
John H. Jenkins
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On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 03:22 AM, Andrew C. West wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:03:27 -0800 (PST), "John H. Jenkins" wrote:
Nope. We're still doing modern stuff.
Well, there's no rush, just as long as you get round to it sometime
... how
about reservin
t goes to show how
much *I* know.)
Oracle bone forms and other older versions of the Han ideographs are
something we haven't even got a good model for how to handle yet.
==
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Try control-clicking on the link and then selecting "Save link to disk"
from the popup menu.
On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 09:55 AM, Dean Snyder wrote:
At 4:49 PM John H. Jenkins wrote:
Cupertino 11/8/02: Today the Apple Font Group released its new suite
of
Unix command line
Apple Font Tool Suite Manual (51 pages)
* Tool Quick Reference (8 pages)
* Tutorial (62 pages)
* Tutorial Command Summary (8 pages)
==
John H. Jenkins
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res is that if the request is impossible
to fulfill, it can be ignored. For discretionary ligatures like ct,
this is the appropriate response. (Matters are a bit more complicated
for required ligatures, of course.)
==
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rtain strings of Unicode characters into them".
TrueType fonts are perfectly capable of supporting ligatures.
OpenType, AAT, and Graphite all use TrueType fonts, and all support
ligatures.
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ndard clearly allows both approaches.
The ZWJ mechanism is not *the* Unicode approach.
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John H. Jenkins
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nt
subsorts once you get beyond the stroke-count level. The
five-stroke-type classification used by the PRC is a fairly recent
innovation and not universally used.
> Is there any online source for such data? Even for smaller sets than
> Unicode
> CJK.
>
Not that I'm aware.
onal Chinese characters.
>>
>> This is urgent, please advise.
>>
>> regards
>> Tony
>>
>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> (End of Report)
>>
>>
>
>
==
John H. Jenkins
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Movie
> Database (imdb.com) knows it not.
>
> --
> My corporate data's a mess! John Cowan
> It's all semi-structured, no less.http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
> But I'll be carefree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Using XSLT
he glyphs but don't really
insist that they "do the right thing." The same is true of Tibetan.
Even the PRC's own fonts have this problem. This is an unfortunate
bind we were put in and I hope we can correct it in a not-too-distant
release.
==
John H. Jenkins
[
On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 02:29 PM, Tex Texin wrote:
> It looks close to several cjk characters, so I wasn't sure.
>
I think it's a variant turtle ideograph. :-)
(Nothing bad, so far as I know.)
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John H. Jenkins
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e fonts.
Carbon applications which do not explicitly use ATSUI or MLTE are
limited in how much of the font they can use. Cocoa apps are pretty
much able to do anything.
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John H. Jenkins
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data. I really don't see why an application needs
to check every character as it reads in a file to make sure it can be
drawn with the set font.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Friday, September 27, 2002, at 09:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> I doubt there's anyone on this list that always agrees with me
I think you're wrong, there, Peter. I *never* disagree with you. :-)
======
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ricter in the future to keep it from continuing to happen.
==
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t; It's got to be better than
> poluting other blocks with characters that just don't belong there.
>
Well, nobody is strongly wedded to the current proposed allocation, to
be frank. It can always change. I think the one thing people would
hope is that the new character goes somewhe
nd there is the
problem that, as you note, some taboo variants have already been
encoded. It's currently scheduled to be reconsidered by the UTC.
==
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KangXi radicals
block was pretty much never going to be used otherwise. Six of one, as
it were.
==
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is
really meaningless. On Mac OS X, the precise appearance of such a
character can have any of several dozen appearances, depending on the
Unicode block in which it's found.
==
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s all of Unicode 3.2; but the font has been entirely
redesigned. We really need to update our documentation.
==
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>
OK, now's the time for us all to chant together,
Deseret! Deseret! Shaw! Shaw! Shaw!
Deseret! Deseret! Shaw! Shaw! Shaw!
==
John H. Jenkins
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solution, but it is *a* solution, and should be available to the
> user without restriction or discouragement.
>
It's discouraged when it's inappropriate. It isn't deprecated. There are
numerous places where Unicode provides multiple ways of representing
something. In this in
t; feature? I'm too lazy to check right now.) We
also have a list of "invisible" characters which should, ordinarily, be
left undisplayed including ZWJ, ZWNJ, the bidi overrides, and so on.
==
John H. Jenkins
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oglobin" is incorrect.
> If the source used "&c.", it should never be changed to "etc.".
> So, if the source used the "ct" ligature...
>
>
I see your point, but I think we're to the stage where we'll just have to
agree to disagree. We *do
On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 11:10 AM, Stefan Persson wrote:
> There is a big problem in the current Unicode ſtandard, ſince
> Fraktur letters aren't ſupported in any ſuitable manner.
Aargh! Medial long-s! Run away! Run away! :-)
======
John H. Jenkins
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l*
text display on the system if it were to be used with ATSUI. It was kind
of cool, actually. We actually have a "font zoo" stashed away full of
pathological fonts which have been known to do all kinds of interesting
things if someone should be foolish enough to install them.
corpus of writing with that script as a part of the proposal. :-)
==
John H. Jenkins
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ot; in the font, and have the tables set up so that whenever "j" is
found with an accent, dotlessj is substituted.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 11:57 AM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
> Klingon (or any of the Latin ciphers/ movie scripts)
>
>
I'd say Klingon *and* one of the Latin ciphers. Klingon is almost worth a
FAQ in itself.
======
John H. Jenkins
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ines.
>
The typical approach these days is for the tools that provide advanced
layout table support to be keyed to glyph name. Apple's tools allow glyph
name, glyph number, of Unicode code point as glyph identifiers. As you
say, it makes it possible to cut-and-paste source files
nes themselves don't need to exist, AFAIK.
>
True. I tend to avoid that, because if something goes wrong and the
system attempts to actually *display* one of these virtual glyphs,
disaster would ensue. (Dave Opstad and I have had long debates on the
safety of doing this.)
==
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rsions of our tools which are hard to
use and don't let him do this. We're working on getting newer and better
ones to him.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 09:49 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
> At 09:41 -0600 2002-07-02, John H. Jenkins wrote:
>
>> Alas, but that's technically impossible. Both OT and AAT (I'm not sure
>> about Graphite) require that single characters map to single glyphs,
e the ligatures with the ZWJ inserted
as part of a ligature table which is on by default and which isn't
revealed to the UI so that the user can't turn them off.
==
John H. Jenkins
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open at the moment, you do it by
turning pair kerning on and off. InDesign has a menu that lets you select
degree of ligation.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 02:08 PM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
> At 11:34 AM 6/30/02 -0600, John H. Jenkins wrote:
>> Remember, Unicode is aiming at encoding *plain text*. For the bulk of
>> Latin-based languages, ligation control is simply not a matter of *plain
>> text*th
l block (U+2Fxx).
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 06:28 AM, James Kass wrote:
>
> John H. Jenkins wrote:
>
>> That seems pretty clear to me. If you want a "ct" ligature in your
>> document because you think it "looks cool," then you use some
>> higher-level
>&
the ligation function with ZWJ rather than creating a new character, but
>> your arguments about Latin, Greek, Runic, Old Hungarian, etc. ligation
>> were thorough and unassailable.
>
> Thank you, nice person. It's nice to know that someone else looked at the
> argumen
e, the ZWJ/ZWNJ
mechanism is an appropriate one to provide ligation control.
4) The precise set of ligatures in a Latin typeface is design-specific. A
typeface should not be required to include a set of ligatures which do not
make aesthetic sense for the overall design.
This last point, by t
>
And isn't there a language used quite a bit just south of the English
channel for which Latin-1 isn't really adequate? A minor, obscure
language, I think. Fr-something.
==
John H. Jenkins
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user insert a pair around every
letter they want in italics.
Remember, Unicode is aiming at encoding *plain text*. For the bulk of
Latin-based languages, ligation control is simply not a matter of *plain
text*that is, the message is still perfectly correct whether ligatures
are on
that it was complete cocidence. It is trivial,
> fact, to disprove the hypothesis that the "experiment" supposedly proved.
>
>
Will you guys *please* stop sending me email with the Shavian letter
CHURCH everywhere the Latin letters "ct" should be? It's most
Hmm. Disregard the last message from me. It isn't "ct" you're replacing.
See how annoying this all is? :-)
==
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sylistic issue and is best left to higher-level protocols.
Thus saith Unicode 3.2.
==
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 03:25 PM, Kenneth Whistler wrote:
> I think what a number of people on the list have been hinting -- or
> openly stating -- is that prolixity is not a virtue on an email list
> when trying to convey one's ideas.
>
IOW, brevity's wit'
approved way to create a conversion table from Windows 950 (with HKSCS)
> to Unicode?
Er, doesn't MS provide one somewhere?
==
John H. Jenkins
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f characters.
In real life, you can ignore (2) by simply issuing a locale-specific
version of a font, but there's no real way to get around (1).
==
John H. Jenkins
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ing to go.
>
And for the record, for slightly more you can get a low-end iMac with Mac
OS Xagain, a Unicode-capable OS.
==
John H. Jenkins
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e that hath ears to hear,
let him hear."
======
John H. Jenkins
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gt; people who are on the money side of the digital divide.
It's a nice goal. It isn't a realistic one, however.
Now, a question on my part. You're using the term "digital divide," but
you're not defining it very well. Could you tell me:
a) What the "digital divide" really is from your perspective—that is, what
OS is on one side and what OS on the other?
b) What are the relative numbers of people with systems on both sides?
If, say, your divide were to be between Mac OS 6 or earlier and Mac OS 7
or later (the point at which Apple adopted TrueType as its primary font
technology), then there are likely 99.99% of all Mac users on the
7-or-later side of the divide. Do you see what I'm asking here?
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oes not consider this an ideal long-term solution.
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John H. Jenkins
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; have very few fonts that are capable of doing this.
>
Agreement; Apple's current solution is a "better-than-nothing" one, but
not really what's best in the long run IMHO. BTW, does FontLab 4
auto-generate OT layout data from the Unicode repertoire of a font?
=
in perspective, however, bear in mind that it's now
possible to have file names which are up to 255 UTF-16 units long
(including astral characters), and that AAT data in the fonts is respected
by the Finder, even for PUA characters. I can name a file in Pollard if I
like, so long as an appropr
iacritical marks,
> mappings between Hiragana and Katakana, mappings between European,
> Arabic, and Indic digits, and so on. NOWHERE in this document is there
> the slightest mention of TC/SC mappings. Isn't that a bit strange?
No, not really. There is sometimes a tendency for people who work on UTC
documents to have a subconscious Han/everything-else dichotomy as they
work.
> If
> the UTC were really driving the issue of TC/SC mapping, wouldn't they
> have at least given it a brief mention in a "Character Foldings"
> proposal?
>
I would have hoped so, but evidently that didn't happen. That the UTC is
concerned about SC/TC data and other Han equivalences is, in any event,
already a part of the public record.
==
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igatures.
>
>
Zero width ligator was rejected. Zero-width joiner can be used to mark
ligation points where they are absolutely necessary; where they are merely
stylistic preferences, they belong in markup.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Tuesday, May 21, 2002, at 09:01 PM, James Kass wrote:
> John H. Jenkins wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't think that Code2000 is an OpenType font, which means it won't
>> have
>> the ancillary glyphs and data needed to do full proper support of many
>>
ngla letters but was not able to type Khanda Ta.
> (The glyph is also probably missing in that font).
>
>
I don't think that Code2000 is an OpenType font, which means it won't have
the ancillary glyphs and data needed to do full proper support of many
languages and scripts.
Unicode Registry?
>
Yes, they are. Ken Beesley of Xerox Research Center Europe is aware of
their use in handwritten materials and argues that treating them as mere
ligatures is insufficient. This will be WG2 document N2474.
==
John H. Jenkins
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htt
of Unicode.
>
> This is news to me. They were omitted originally because they were
> considered ligatures. Has there been a new paper and proposal?
>
Yes. WG2 documents N2473 and N2474 (when they show up, which should be
shortly) deal with the issue.
==
John H. Jenki
currently eighteen characters from Extension B currently have
a kDefinition entry in Unihan.txt.
==
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e on the web
> site
> please?
>
>
The current version is at <http://www.unicode.org/charts/Unihan3.2.pdf>.
==
John H. Jenkins
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peror five hundred years dead from an entirely
different dynasty is no biggie. So the Qing dictionary, the KangXi, would
have some taboo forms which would later become untaboo (especially now, of
course, since nobody does that kind of thing anymore).
==
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>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Thomas Chan
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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ning sequences. No, there's no point in asking for them.
Unicode cannot add new precomposed accented Latin, Greek, or Cyrillic
letters because it screw up normalization. Use the actual upsilon capital
letter followed by the appropriate breathing and accent marks.
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le on CD for Windows.
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inclusion in Unicode.
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matted them when we
use them for Macs. A pure file on such a disk could easily be a PC file
created by a Windows app or a Mac file created by a Mac app. There's no
way of telling based on the media itself from which architecture the file
came.
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e clipart pixs (B&W .GIFs, .BMPs, .JPGs, .PNGs, ...) for the additional characters you'd like to see admitted into Unicode.
I believe that the proposal form specifically requires a TrueType font, although not necessarily with the initial proposal. We can't use clipart pix in the standa
d
> 212F but none of which identified themselves as this number in particular.
>
>
U+0065. Except in rare cases for backwards compatibility with other
standards, Unicode does not include special characters for mathematical or
physical constants.
======
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ariants are characters with the same meaning but different
abstract shapes.
> where can I find more detail reference document about them ?
The Unicode Standard, version 3.0, pp. 262-263.
==
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ail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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http://homepage.mac.com/jenkins/
cal unity of the ideographs used throughout East
Asia and takes the approach that they should be unified.
Surrogates were introduced because it was clear that we would ultimately
need more than 65536 code points to encode what people wanted to represent.
==
John H. Jenkins
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://homepage.mac.com/jenkins/
27;t really mean American
(or Chinese) cultural imperialism. Unfortunately, Ohta-san can still get
himself a hearing on a number of Internet-related committees.
==
John H. Jenkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://homepage.mac.com/jenkins/
correct algorithm is to display kanji
with Japanese glyphs if at all possible.
Again, the typographic tradition in Japan is to write kanji with Japanese
glyphs *even* when Chinese is the language being written.
==
John H. Jenkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://homepage.mac.com/jenkins/
On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:19 AM, John Cowan wrote:
> I am now developing a patch for Mozilla that causes it to display all
> URLs in Fraktur fonts only.
>
>
No, no. Convert them into phonetics and write them in Deseret.
==========
John H. Jenkins
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[EMA
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