Hi.
From: Peter Edberg pedberg_at_apple.com
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 00:22:33 -0700
In the PRI 205 forum - http://www.unicode.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=33 - I
have posted a draft summary of feedback on Level
Direction Mark received to date originally on the PRI 205 page
2011/9/21 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
LRE...PDF acts like a character with BiDi class L, and likewise for
RLE...PDF. I suppose the principle is that in a right-to-left context a
word composed of letters of BiDi class L should be treated like an
embedding.
That's where
On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:21:38 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com wrote:
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Richard Wordingham wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:59:47 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com wrote:
However, it does not handle the situation in which the date is part
of other text, and may be preceded
Den 2011-09-22 10:54, skrev Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:
2011/9/21 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
LRE...PDF acts like a character with BiDi class L, and likewise for
RLE...PDF. I suppose the principle is that in a right-to-left context a
word composed of letters
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 01:48:45 +0200
Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
2011/9/20 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
Because it also has practical applications (for example look at the
currenct Wikimedia bug when it wants to display lists of category
names, and insert a
Den 2011-09-19 04:53, skrev Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
Philippe,
On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
...
Note also that there's no way to specify a weak direction for the
internal content of embedded fields, as we don't have the WDE..PDF
mechanism described in the
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 05:44:27 +0200
Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
2011/9/19 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
snip The whole point
of LDM was to be able to create semi-structured elements such as
the example in UAX #9 section 5.6 *without* knowing in advance
the direction
2011/9/20 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 05:44:27 +0200
Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
2011/9/19 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
snip The whole point
of LDM was to be able to create semi-structured elements such as
the example in UAX #9
2011/9/18 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
Furthermore, for the example in UAX #9 section 5.6, using RLM and LRM
around the '-' causes reordering of the adjacent spaces, while using
LDM before each '-' solves the layout problem.
Of course, the problem of spaces is cured if
Philippe,
On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2011/9/17 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
2. Philippe Verdy suggests that the intent of LDM is to change the bidi
class of a CS such as '/' to match the bidi class of the preceding EN
character. Actually, the intent of LDM is to
Richard,
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Richard Wordingham wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:59:47 -0700
Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com wrote:
I'll take this argument first.
At any rate, it seems that if LDM-like behavior is needed, there is
no alternative using existing controls. As Kent
2011/9/19 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
Philippe,
On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
2011/9/17 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
2. Philippe Verdy suggests that the intent of LDM is to change the bidi
class of a CS such as '/' to match the bidi class of the preceding EN
2011/9/19 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
Note also that there's no way to specify a weak direction for the
internal content of embedded fields, as we don't have the WDE..PDF
mechanism described in the UBA for now (but may be we could emulate it
using RLE,B..PDF or LRE,B..PDF (but with which B
2011/9/17 Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com:
2. Philippe Verdy suggests that the intent of LDM is to change the bidi class
of a CS such as '/' to match the bidi class of the preceding EN character.
Actually, the intent of LDM is to act like either LRM or RLM depending on the
direction
On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:59:47 -0700
Peter Edberg pedb...@apple.com wrote:
I'll take this argument first.
At any rate, it seems that if LDM-like behavior is needed, there is
no alternative using existing controls. As Kent Karlsson says in the
e-mail discussion, All the workarounds w.r.t. LDM
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 03:31:14 +0200
Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
In other words, the UTC policy about the stability of Bidi classes
should be minimally relaxed, by rewording into something like:
« The bidi class property value of any assigned code point is
IMMUTABLE (and will
2011/9/14 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 03:31:14 +0200
Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
In other words, the UTC policy about the stability of Bidi classes
should be minimally relaxed, by rewording into something like:
« The bidi class
Den 2011-09-14 03:31, skrev Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:
2011/9/13 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
...
for the new one, and to the paragraph bidi level for the three old ones). (I
know, this would be a form of option 1 in the PRI.)
You can turn it as you want it is still a
2011/9/14 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
Because that stability guarantee says The Bidi_Class property values will
not be further subdivided. I'm not too keen on the word subdivided here,
but it (here) means there will be *no additions* to the set of values for
the Bidi_class
Den 2011-09-14 19:05, skrev Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:
2011/9/14 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
Because that stability guarantee says The Bidi_Class property values will
not be further subdivided. I'm not too keen on the word subdivided here,
...
That's absolutely not the
I can give another example where there are ambiguities on how to
resolve the direction of characters other then CS.
Just look at this page on Wikisource (this is a paragraph in French
containing Hebrew words in a French enumeration, look at where the
comma separations are placed). Note that I'm
2011/9/14 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
And how will you define what is an implicit LDM ? For example 1.2
Did you actually READ my submission re. the PRI? Seems like not. There is a
suggestion there (which requires a bit of character contextual processing).
It is also possible to
Den 2011-09-14 19:56, skrev Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr:
2011/9/14 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
And how will you define what is an implicit LDM ? For example 1.2
Did you actually READ my submission re. the PRI? Seems like not. There is a
suggestion there (which requires a
2011/9/15 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
Back to the original issue of this thread: All the workarounds w.r.t. LDM
depend on the directionality of neighbouring characters, not directly on
the embedding level direction.
If so, you can mark the slash in 12/31 with LDM, it will not
This is a summary of what I have already submitted for Public Review
Issue 205 (http://www.unicode.org/review/pri205/). I am mentioning it
here in case there is something wrong with my idea.
My basic idea is that one does not a 'level direction mark'. The
desired effect can be achieved by
2011/9/13 Richard Wordingham richard.wording...@ntlworld.com:
This is a summary of what I have already submitted for Public Review
Issue 205 (http://www.unicode.org/review/pri205/). I am mentioning it
here in case there is something wrong with my idea.
My basic idea is that one does not a
From: Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:01:57 +0200
Cc: unicode@unicode.org
Your example for reversing the direction of fields in notations like
1.2.3 where the dot should be interpreted as a number separator and
not a decimal separator does not seem to work:
On 9/13/2011 6:01 AM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Unfortunately, adding controls would imply the creation of new Bidi
classes for them (and forgetting the stability policy about them,
which was published too soon before solving evident problems).
The first part is correct, and giving up stability to
In that case, there remains only one alternative: encoding new
characters with another (existing) Bidi class. The problem will
immediately come: you'd need to duplicate lots of characters (it could
be the case for all visible characters, including whitespaces, that
are neither letters or digits or
-On [20110913 15:22], Philippe Verdy (verd...@wanadoo.fr) wrote:
something may be wrong in the Bidi algorithm or in its implementation
on Windows when using Uniscribe (in Chrome), or in the browser itself.
A friend of mine recently joined Google and is working on the Chrome project
in order to
2011/9/13 Kent Karlsson kent.karlsso...@telia.com:
I'm not at all sure the suggested workaround works in general, and not just
in a few examples.
Another possibility, as long as we are just brain-storming a bit here, is
to use the bidi category S (Segment Separator) for the LEVEL DIRECTION
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