This is a rather late reply, but I think this document should be useful:
http://www.evertype.com/standards/af/af-locales.pdf
The first few pages discuss and recommend various Yeh forms to be used,
and a recommendation for avoiding some in certain forms.
Roozbeh
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 12:17 -0500
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:56 +0200, André Szabolcs Szelp wrote:
> I seem to remember, that Persian used kaf with three dots above (like
> your Moroccan example) at least in the 19th century. No idea when they
> switched to the double-lined version. (and I can well imagine how the
> three dots would
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Murray Sargent <
murr...@exchange.microsoft.com> wrote:
Andreas Prilop commented "A native speaker of English does not
/automatically/ know better about English grammar, English punctuation than
an informed Frenchman." So true, so true. Most native speakers of Engli
"Persian and Urdu write [g] using a kaf character with a line above U+06AF,
while Pashto uses kaf with a ring U+06AB. It really should be that simple."
I seem to remember, that Persian used kaf with three dots above (like your
Moroccan example) at least in the 19th century. No idea when they switc
Quoting CE Whitehead :
'g' is a non-Arabic sound ... and there is no "g" in Standard
Arabic although there are two ways to write it ...
Oh, there are many more than two ways to write the [g] sound in
Arabic. Standard Arabic traditionally transcribes foreign [g] as ghain
U+063A, as in Gra
> From: murr...@exchange.microsoft.com
> To: unicode@unicode.org
> Subject: RE: Pashto yeh characters
> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:20:09 +
>
> Andreas Prilop commented "A native speaker of English does not
> /automatically/ know better about English grammar,
>
From: lingu...@artstein.org
Date: Tue Jul 27 2010 - 23:51:36 CDT
> Hi Kamal,
> Thanks for the helpful comment -- especially the URLs. A quick check
> showed that at least on the BBC, U+064A and U+06CC are used
> interchangeably, even in final position where the glyphs differ. My
> Pashto
Andreas Prilop commented "A native speaker of English does not /automatically/
know better about English grammar, English punctuation than an informed
Frenchman." So true, so true. Most native speakers of English have only limited
understanding of English grammar. At least in my country. They re
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Arno Schmitt wrote:
> your point is that this form of alef has two dots below ???
> I didn't get it.
Look into "Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch", page 9,
http://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/title_679.ahtml
to see what I mean.
> most of the time; a native writer knows his/h
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, lingu...@artstein.org wrote:
> Here's an arbitrary page from today's Al-Ahram newspaper,
> [...]
> On my computer this looks particularly jarring,
You can find enough pages from Continental Europe and Latin
America that have an acute accent instead of an apostrophe
due to ill
All three Pashto Yeh characters represent significant phonetic differences.
06CC is used for the /i/ sound while 06D0 (with two vertical dots below) stands
for /e/.
According to some sources, the third one (06CD) represents /ej/ and is not
consistently used for all dialects.
I think the incons
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>>> According to "Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch" by Wolfdietrich Fischer,
>>> page 9, the "ya" is written two dots in such cases, too.
>>
>> Except that this is not a Yaa and not pronounced like a Yaa, it is an
>> Alef (note the small dagger Alef abov
Quoting Andreas Prilop :
Hi Andreas,
Thanks for the references to the old 7-bit and 8-bit Arabic character sets.
http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/ISO-IR/089.pdf
http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/ISO-IR/127.pdf
I think these clearly show that alef maksura was the intention behind
the dotless code po
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:32:21PM +0200, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>
> >> According to "Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch" by Wolfdietrich Fischer,
> >> page 9, the "ya" is written two dots in such cases, too.
> >
> > Except that this is not a Yaa and not p
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>> According to "Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch" by Wolfdietrich Fischer,
>> page 9, the "ya" is written two dots in such cases, too.
>
> Except that this is not a Yaa and not pronounced like a Yaa, it is an
> Alef (note the small dagger Alef above it).
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Andreas Prilop
wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, David Starner wrote:
>
>> MacArabic, Windows-1256 and ISO-8859-6 are all standards for
>> the encoding of Arabic. Thus U+0649 must be an Arabic character;
>> existing use in both those sets and in Unicode say that is.
>
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 04:33:12PM +0200, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>
> > it just happen not to get in those two positions
> > in modern orthography, but it can be seen in Quran
> > which is still written in the old, early Islamic orthography.
>
> If you arg
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, David Starner wrote:
> what I mean was that MacArabic, Windows-1256 and ISO-8859-6
> are designed to write the Arabic language.
They are older than Unicode. It could have been possible in the
beginning of Unicode to define U+0649 to have initial and medial
glyphs with dots, i
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, David Starner wrote:
> MacArabic, Windows-1256 and ISO-8859-6 are all standards for
> the encoding of Arabic. Thus U+0649 must be an Arabic character;
> existing use in both those sets and in Unicode say that is.
By that circular logic, "S with cedilla" and "T with cedilla"
m
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Khaled Hosny wrote:
> it just happen not to get in those two positions
> in modern orthography, but it can be seen in Quran
> which is still written in the old, early Islamic orthography.
If you argue with archaic spelling, then ð and þ are English letters.
| http://www.unic
Hi Kamal,
Thanks for the helpful comment -- especially the URLs. A quick check
showed that at least on the BBC, U+064A and U+06CC are used
interchangeably, even in final position where the glyphs differ. My
Pashto is extremely weak, but even I can recognize that in the
following article,
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Arno Schmitt wrote:
> Since U+0649 is called alif maqsura it should be used for alif maqsura.
But that argument, you must use U+0027 for an apostrophe instead
of U+2019.
The Unicode names for characters are often hictorical and
you should not infer anything from such names.
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Christoph Päper
wrote:
> David Starner:
>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Andreas Prilop
>>> [U+0649] is no Arabic letter, but an Uighur letter.
>>
>> That's wrong, though. […] U+0649 must be an Arabic character;
>
> Andreas probably meant that U+0649 is not par
Ron, as you've already noticed, there can be multiple conventions for the
orthography of a single language.
For the Yeh repertoire, typically the following are used:
u+06CC
u+06CD
u+06D0
For a current corpus, have a look at BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pashto) and
Deutsche Welle (
David Starner:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Andreas Prilop
>> [U+0649] is no Arabic letter, but an Uighur letter.
>
> That's wrong, though. […] U+0649 must be an Arabic character;
Andreas probably meant that U+0649 is not part of the Arabic writing system,
i.e. the Arabic script as used i
Jul 2010 20:09:21 +0200
> From: a...@zedat.fu-berlin.de
> To: prilop4...@trashmail.net
> CC: unicode@unicode.org; lingu...@artstein.org
> Subject: Re: Pashto yeh characters
>
> Andreas Prilop:
> > U+0649 has the traditional name "alif maqsura" because it was
> &g
Andreas Prilop:
> U+0649 has the traditional name "alif maqsura" because it was
> taken from ISO-8859-6. But I see no objection to use U+06CC
> for alif maqsura.
I beg to differ
Since U+0649 is called alif maqsura
it should be used for alif maqsura.
Please not that in the Qur'an
it occurs not onl
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 06:43:19PM +0200, Andreas Prilop wrote:
[...]
> U+0649 has (should have) four glyphs without any dots. This is no
> Arabic letter, but an Uighur letter. Therefore you should not use
> U+0649 for Arabic, Persian, Pashto, Urdu but only U+06CC.
I'm not sure what is the bases
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Andreas Prilop
wrote:
> U+0649 has (should have) four glyphs without any dots. This is no
> Arabic letter, but an Uighur letter. Therefore you should not use
> U+0649 for Arabic, Persian, Pashto, Urdu but only U+06CC.
That's wrong, though. MacArabic, Windows-1256
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, lingu...@artstein.org wrote:
> [...]
> To wrap up, are my observations about the Pashto writing conventions
> correct? And is there a standard for assigning the Pashto characters
> representing /j/ and /i:/ to Unicode code points?
Practical answer:
U+0649 and U+064A are incl
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