Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

Hi Sean

It is a relief to hear from you. I’m sorry if you were weirded out by the help 
offered. I have struggled in the past to swallow my pride and just accept help 
when I need it. Last year dealing with Rebecca’s cancer was a humbling 
experience for me in this regard. 

Anyway, there’s a few points I thought it might be helpful to clarify for 
yourself and others below.

> Due to various security risks,
> Google had decided to deprecate the use of webviews for authenticating
> oAuth entry.

Although this may appear to be blame shifting I’d like to point out that when 
Dropbox dropped API v1 they sent a number of emails allowing us to get prepared 
to offer something for v2. Google’s little note at the bottom of a page you 
don’t really look for little notes on really didn’t help that much clearly.

>  Despite being distributed as part of LC, mergext is
> not open source so can’t be repaired by any of us.

All we need is a decent bug report for anything that isn’t open source.

> which
> we can’t fix easily because it’s part of the ide and they won’t accept ide
> amendments due to the fact it can’t be checked and compared using
> GitHub!!!

If the issue is in a script only stack which most things are in the IDE then we 
do accept contributions.

> Looking at the latest LC8 release, the ‘fix’ Monte did for mergGoogle
> hasn’t been added in. It’s hardly working let alone ‘Stable’ then, is it!!

This is the main point I wanted to clarify. When I heard of your situation I 
stopped doing the work I had been assigned and started working on a fix for 
you. Doing it as quick as I could meant breaking the mac cross compilation so I 
built for iOS, ensured it worked and posted a link for you (or anyone else to 
access it). So that leaves on the todo list before it becomes part of the main 
distribution for me to fix the mac build, have it reviewed by another member of 
the team and included in the main bundle of mergExt builds we include in the 
distribution. In the meantime we have a build that works for those that need it.

Regards

Monte
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

On Sat, 26 May 2018 at 22:09, AndyP via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


> If for example you are using LC on Mac which I have used in the past and
> was a pleasure to behold.. it just works!
>
When I wrote the list of things that were broken I was writing specifically
about Mac. I very rarely code on Windoze. The Mac ‘just works’, true. But
LC on a Mac is ‘just flawed’. And from the catalogue of faults I’ve binge
read from the last couple of weeks posts it seems it’s a cross platform
issue.

LC 9 is simply not ready, is still Beta and is an embarrassment. Any new
customer that would come their way would immediately abandon LC based on
frustration and limitation. There seems no sense to it. Did they not
actually test it for real before they released it? I have a feeling they
put far too much trust in their automated tests and don’t do nearly enough
manual real world testing to see how their dev env works. Especially the
script editor for goodness sake, the very heart of the coding environment!


-- 
Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Hi Sean, its very thoughtful of you to break it down the way you did.

peace and love to you and all the best.





On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello Sean -
>
> Very glad to read your post here.
>
> There are only a couple things that may be useful to address here, but
> chief among them is gratitude for your open discussion of depression.
>
> Culturally we too often stigmatize depression, anxiety, and a whole host
> of other conditions, unable to talk about them as easily as we talk about a
> broken leg or other more strictly physical things.
>
> I believe every conversation about such conditions is a force for good in
> the world, making it easier for folks to express their own stories and for
> others to understand what the experience is like to be able to become more
> effective in supporting our friends.
>
> We don't always get it right, but through healthy open dialog we can all
> learn how to be of ever better service to one another.
>
>
>
> > I’ve not been able to face anyone or anything. I was not happy that
> > the police had been called. I was not happy that my wife found out
> > that way. I was definitely not happy that people had tried contacting
> > my 14yr old son after cyber ploughing my social accounts.
>
> That last part might have been me, and if so I owe you an explanation:
>
> Through friends and family I've had experience with both suicidal ideation
> and actuality, so like many here I took your words quite seriously.
>
> Somehow from that experience something in my instincts told me you'd be
> okay.  Still, as you probably know, the common protocol for anyone
> encountering such ideation is to respond as though it's a likelihood,
> because the stakes cannot be higher and it is something for which there is
> no Undo.
>
> I tried to follow my instincts, but a nagging doubt had me checking
> regional news sources in case I was wrong.  When several days had passed
> and I'd found nothing relevant that was good.  But I also saw nothing from
> you online, not even on LinkedIn; I log in daily anyway, and when you post
> there it's normally a welcome part of my feed.
>
> On LinkedIn your company is listed as having two employees.  You and I are
> already connected, so I took the liberty of clicking "Connect" for the
> second one, in hopes that I might ask only whether they've been in touch
> with you recently.
>
> I did notice that the other Pi employee has the same last name.  I had
> assumed it was your brother.  If that was your son I certainly meant no
> intrusion, nor would have written anything alarming.
>
> As it is the request was never responded to, so I've had no contact with
> anyone on this until replying to you now.
>
>
>
> I've had my own challenges with family and such in recent years, so I have
> at least a sense of some of the burdens you've faced.  I know how sometimes
> things can be overwhelming.  I'm glad your here, both on this planet and on
> this list.  And as you've seen, no matter if you may not notice yourself,
> you've made enough of a strongly favorable impression among the others here
> that they see you as part of their extended family, happy to lend a hand as
> they would any good neighbor.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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group-editing mode

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Is there a way to query to see where group-editing mode is enabled (which
group)?  On a project that I'm working, I'd like to be able to stop the
group editing and then restore the previous state.

I looked at the commands in the dictionary and did not see a reference to
one that would provide that information.  EditBackground will tell if the
stack is in group editing mode, but if there is more than one background on
the current card I don't see a way to obtain that information.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[AndyP via use-livecode]

Windows and V9 is more problematic than the 8 series.

Unfortunately before any of the problems previously mentioned are looked at,
the message queuing and subsequent slow down, juttering and eventual
crashing of the ide when either the script editor, project browser or
message box are in extended use need to be fixed.

The good news is that in the last online conference Mark said that he knew
what the problem is so this hopefully will be fixed in the next release. 
Kevin and Mark also indicated that more time would be given to testing on
Windows so hopefully us windows users will start to see more parity with
Mac.

It must be hard for the LiveCode team to balance the needs and wants of us
the users when so many platforms are targeted. If for example you are using
LC on Mac which I have used in the past and was a pleasure to behold.. it
just works! then you will be more interested in the next new feature where
for us windows users we just want to be able to work without having to have
the Task Manager open all the time to clear out any residuals from the last
LC crash!

I do however feel very positive with the general direction LC is going, and
I am sure that the team will continue to chip away at the bugs and usability
issues.




-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Object Referencing in LC 9.0.0

[Michael Doub via use-livecode]

Can someone using 9.0.0 help me out?

This used to work in LC 7 but now generates an error on the second line 
(*put*thelongidofobjRef intot1).  What is the new correct syntax?   This 
popped up in the MasterLibrary.


-= Thanks
  Mike


*on*seSetObjectState objRef, objState*
   put*thelongidofobjRef intot1 *
   put*thelongidofbtn"Lib"ofcd"LibMgr"ofstack"MasterLibrary"intot2*
   if* t1 = t2 andobjState = "applied"*then**
       send*"updateMasterIndex"tocd"LibMgr"ofstack"MasterLibrary"in1ticks*
   end* *if**
   pass*seSetObjectState*
end*seSetObjectState

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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Curry Kenworthy wrote:
> One general problem is that backward-compatibility
> has been abandoned and even politicized/demonized
> by some of the big players. (Hello Mr. Jobs.) BC
> is actually just part of a bigger concept. I don't
> have the correct word for that concept handy
> (Richard?) but when we build upon other frameworks
> (like FB, Google, or LiveCode itself), it helps
> if the APIs and keywords do not change rapidly.
> A sound foundation. That way "middle" code can be
> designed to last. If the big guys wantonly break
> code, it's an incredible waste that the consumer
> (or someone, sometimes us) has to pay.

I don't have any terminology suggestions there; I think you 
characterized the risks well.


LC is almost unique in its strong support for backward compatibility. 
Many other systems appear cavalier by comparison in that respect, so 
much so that it never even occurs to their users that backward 
compatibility could be something one might ask for.


APIs, though, are in a special class, esp. those related to 
authentication and authorization.  The threat landscape changes almost 
daily, and good service providers will change their APIs to keep up.


I can't recall if it was from Sean or someone else, but earlier in this 
thread someone noted that Google provided some two years of advance 
notice on this particular change, and then went even further to extend 
the EOL date a couple months further than originally announced.


If an app *must* increase its complexity by introducing dependency on 
third-party cloud services over which we will have no control, any and 
all channels for receiving communications from the vendor must be 
closely monitored (white list dev announce addresses, check the dev 
blogs periodically, etc.).


For me, the bigger question is that *must*: "Is introducing dependency 
on an external service over which I have no control truly necessary?"


Sometimes it is, and if so you build for dependency on it and pray.

But if my needs are modest enough that I can handle them myself, I'm 
inclined to do that.


If all I need is a simple UI for folks to enter data and post a tabular 
file to a server for my app to pick up, I might be inclined to make that 
data entry app myself to keep things simple and predictable.


And if the usage scenario is all on one local network, I'd be inclined 
to use a Raspberry Pi or spare PC as the server right there next to me, 
rather than adding the unpredictability that comes with the open Internet.


It's kind of amazing we lose so little data on the Internet, but we do 
from time to time.  And living here in Hollywoodland I can appreciate 
what Sean writes about the pressures involved in studio shoots.  If you 
have a long history in the software biz and haven't spent time on a TV 
production, it's hard to appreciate how different that work environment 
is: Scheduling studio time is hard, once you're there you're burning 
tens of thousands an hour, and it's entertainment so the happy flow of 
every person on set does matter.  In short, the impact of any delay 
ranges from extremely damaging to the production, to intolerably 
destructive.  Studio time is high-pressure time for techs.


Relying only on the local network eliminates the 
rare-but-has-indeed-happened risk of DDoS or DNS attacks and other 
factors that can make a cloud provider unreachable.  Remember when 
Twitter and dozens of other services were knocked offline across the US 
eastern seaboard for several hours in Oct 2016?  The didn't end because 
the good guys stopped it. It ended only because the bad guys apparently 
felt they'd made their point and showed mercy.  It was a muscle-flexing 
exercise, a way to let us know they can do it again at any time, and 
could be sustained for a full day or more if they choose.


With burn rates like studio production, unless the open Internet is 
needed I'd be *very* inclined to move any server the system is dependent 
on to the local net.


And even if the wild west of the open Internet is truly required, unless 
I need the specific features of a third-party service I'd consider 
rolling my own.  Data entry apps to produce tabular data are cheap and 
fun to make in LC, and bring a hundred unknowables under your own control.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Windows 10 and LC9.0

[R.H. via use-livecode]

I like to add two more observations for Windows 10 and LC9:

I wrote that before LC9 on a secondary monitor menus tend to move into
Nirvana as they open not at the location of the menu. This is correct with
one exception: The Script Editor's menus are still behaving the old way,
maybe not as drastically, but moving the Script Editor to the left side of
the secondary monitor (my first main monitor is placed on the right side),
menus open outside of the full window's visible rectangle.

Another observation: I got used writing almost all scripts as behavior
scripts, also the stack script is a behavior script. Usually, writing a new
handler will not be recognized by the system when compiling. Too often, but
not always, they fail. Saving several times the script window does not
help. Sometimes it helps to close the Script Editor and to reopen it.
Sometimes it is necessary to quit and then restart LiveCode. Then it
usually always works as expected.

Once a new handler is recognized, it works and also changes will be
recognized.

Roland
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Re: Signing MacOS Standalones

[Ray via use-livecode]

Thanks Paul - yes, I've got an active Apple Developer account and I've 
downloaded a code signing certificate for both MacOS and the iOS 
systems.  After dragging my app to AppWrapper and immediately wrapping 
it AppWrapper displays "Unable to Code Sign the application - please 
select a valid code signing identity".  It then wraps it anyway but 
leaves me with a "potential issue" that "CfBundle Get Info String is 
depricated".  In any event the app wasn't code signed.  When I try to 
use the Code Signature pull down to make a selection (changing it from 
'no signature') I see 2 choices, each one available for App Store or Web 
Deployment.  But they all display "Both Cert Missing".  That's where I'm 
stuck.


So yes, I have reached out to the guys at Ohanaware Software. I'll see 
if they can clear this up for me.


Thanks,

Ray


On 5/25/2018 5:24 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

I am not sure - the "no identity" seems like you may have not added your
code signing certificate to AppWrapper.

To verify, you have an Apple Developer account. From the Developer
account, you have downloaded a code signing certificate for signing OSX
desktop apps (Apple issues different certificates for signing desktop
app and iOS apps). I'm sorry, but I do not remember the specifc steps to
add your certificate to AppWrapper, but in the past, Ohanaware email
support has been really good. Have you contacted them?


On 5/25/2018 8:40 AM, Ray via use-livecode wrote:

Paul thanks again for your suggestion here.  I finally got some time
and a Mac to try this but I ran into problems.  I get a "no identity
found" error from AppWrapper with no support as to how to find 'my
identity'.  I did find some information on Stack Overflow at:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16036571/codesign-gives-always-no-identity-found-error-via-terminal


but it's pretty cryptic and ultimately impossible to follow.  In my
opinion this whole thing seems like one big extortion scheme on the
part of Apple Computers.  To the best of my knowledge Microsoft does
not impose anything like this on Windows developers.  Exasperating
matters, Apple routinely changes things up thus making it difficult
for an organization such as Livecode to provide an accurate
procedure.  Nonetheless, if we can no longer save a standalone for
MacOS we taken a major step backward, have we not?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks!

Ray Horsley


On 5/19/2018 5:54 PM, Ray via use-livecode wrote:

Many thanks Paul - I'll give this a try and post how it works out.


On 5/19/2018 1:47 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

You will still have to join Apple Developer to purchase a certificate,
but then use AppWrapper (http://www.ohanaware.com/appwrapper/)

On 5/19/2018 5:19 AM, Ray via use-livecode wrote:

Does anybody have steps to sign Mac OS standalones?  I've discovered
Apple 10.12 or higher now sabotages unsigned standalones and it's a
rather cryptic process to join the Apple dev club, create a
certificate, and then sign an LC standalone, evidently using Terminal.

Thanks in advance!

Ray Horsley

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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Jose Enrique Montero via use-livecode]

Mr. Sean, I'm sorry to hear your story, thank God, you managed to overcome
it. Nothing is more important than life.

I am from Venezuela, a South American country in dictatorship, with food,
electricity and internet failures. For two years I have been trying to do
something with LIVECODE and I really have not managed financially, there is
a long list of failures but in the end we have to try to solve it as I read
there using other languages' plugins. All that anxiety to survive has also
generated emotionally difficult episodes.

A way that I have tried to focus with my clients. is to tell you that I can
develop a class "B" app, that is useful for "prototype" at a very low price
and in a very short "time" compared to a high UIX app, without many
required features like a datagrid that slides subtly for example. But that
can be useful to show the product idea and raise funds for better
development.

And not to mention the facilities to monetize via advertising or analytics.


But the important thing for me is to continue learning and working hard to
support my family in this "war" environment where I live.

best regards

P.S. Sorry for the English but the subject was written in Spanish and I
used google translator.

Jose Enrique Montero
www.amovenca.com.ve

2018-05-26 12:11 GMT-04:00 AndyP via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:

> Hello Sean,
>
> You've had a tough journey, that's for sure, its good to see that you are
> now thinking about the future and how to move forward.
>
> Wishing you well in whatever direction you decide to go.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Andy Piddock
>
>
> My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
>
> TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode
>
>
> Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk
>
> PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker
> / finder.
> http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
> --
> Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/
> Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[AndyP via use-livecode]

Hello Sean,

You've had a tough journey, that's for sure, its good to see that you are
now thinking about the future and how to move forward.

Wishing you well in whatever direction you decide to go.




-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Thank you, Richmond! You have cheered me up a lot. You make some very good
points and it's good to know I'm not alone in my feelings about so much of
it. Ju and I have been discussing it and what I might focus on instead.
Unfortunately, that means I'd be leaving you guys in the cesspool as I drag
myself to shore. But I'll probably still watch on from the sidelines to see
how things turn out and chime in if necessary.

Thanks very much, again.

Sean

On 26 May 2018 at 11:19, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>
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Re: how to clear residual garbage in a stack?

[Neville Smythe via use-livecode]

> I haven't actually tried it but would it work to just put empty into the 
> field before deleting the card? That would be sort of a "clean as you go" 
> approach.

That’s a very neat workaround which should leave at most a couple of bytes of 
uncollected garbage, until the bug is squashed.

Of course most people wouldn’t need to worry about the problem at all, the 
memory leak involved would hardly be noticeable for most stacks, it’s just that 
it accumulates over time.

I have submitted the bug, and also the Windows 10 saving problem which is 
really my concern, to QualityControl.

Neville Smythe  
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Windows 10 and LC9.0

[R.H. via use-livecode]

Hello all

I do think that it is right to say that everything is broken or not
working.

Also not in Windows 10.

And to survive in such market with such a highly ambitious project such as
LiveCode -- I consider it almost a wonder that LiveCode is still around.
Imagine having to support so many platforms and different interests in
business, games, education, and whatever.

I am also not happy with everything Google is pushing out, or Microsoft, or
Apple, Amazon, or whoever you name, but they have UNLIMITED funding and
thousands of developers. In comparison -- LiveCode is doing very very very
well.

But in one thing I agree fully: CONSOLIDATE first and then go ahead.

If time would be spent to just fix all the pending bugs first (at least 80%
maybe) and  a team would be forced to develop even one BIG-ENOUGH SAMPLE
PROJECT (not just a small little gadget) on ALL platforms (Windows, Apple,
Linux) and FOR all platforms (Desktop, Mobile, Brwoser) using ONE CODE BASE
and touching all the 80% of what a typical application of today's world
would need, all those little things would come to light, and maybe most of
it will be fixed "on the fly" -- while we as users would not be able to do
that.

Maybe such SAMPLE PROJECT could even solve a real word's problem and hit
the markets more than any of the development parts?

What could it be -- this sample project -- speaking for the quality of
LiveCode, using it to really test LiveCode in real life, released to the
world? Multi-language, multi-theme, multi-platform, multi-user, ...
something EVERYBODY will like to have all over the world? Be it a game, the
world's best address book, a tool to make money, helping children in third
world countries, ... I remember when Skype appeared the first time and how
people were just grabbing it. When sold to Microsoft, the developers took
almost 2 billion dollars home.

Michelin 3 stars to restaurants are not given for the process of cooking,
but for the overall outcome.

// NOTE //

I do not want to make the impression that I am qualified to tell Kevin or
anybody here what best to do. I am not. I also do not want to rant.
Everybody here expressing annoyances is doing this out of love for LiveCode
and this community, wishing the best to push forward. A natural process.

Everbody was touched by Sean's unfortunate situation, we all were worried,
but it should then not flip to the other side. We can learn from his
experience and be better prepared when it comes to mission-critical apps,
but never ever things will always land safely and as desired. Mother
Nature, possibly by intention, is imperfect in its very heart in order to
be able to progress. Evolution depends on imperfection. We can only just
strive for the stars. And we are measured for our ability to stand up each
time we fall.
___
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Re: Was: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Well, Sean, your message is very long and filled with a lot of stuff; 
so, at the risk of being a bore,
I'll take a long bit replying to all your points; especially as that's 
what I feel it deserves.


On 25/5/2018 7:07 pm, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

Dear All


This is going to be a long one so I’ll break it down into sections to make
it easier to read and get the points across (hopefully).

// Thanks //
First off, a great deal of thanks has to go out to everyone who contacted
both during and after the incident on May 2nd. It is overwhelming to see
the attempts of support offered over the last couple of weeks. Thank you,
each one of you.


// GoFundMe //
This, too, is overwhelming. A little disturbing too as it was embarked on
by people who know very little about me or the facts behind the situation.
Indeed, some of those provided here and on the GFM site were distorted from
the truth of the matter. I would never have asked for this or expected
it... but the generosity demonstrated by so many in the community is so
very much appreciated.

It is necessary, though, to set a few matters straight to make sure all
understand what actually took place and why things got the way they did.


// Background //
On a personal note, I’ve suffered from clinical depression, diagnosed and
medicated since ‘03. During that time I have had 5 serious mental (nervous)
breakdowns. Only one of these had been work-related. What I suffered this
time was only a half breakdown it transpires and has been ‘easier’ to
recover from. My wife, Judith, has been a major contributing factor in this.


I am also familiar with a lot of this (mind you, to be fair, with the 
possible exception of people
who spend their lives herding sheep and cattle up in the mountains, I'm 
sure everyone has had

some seriously purple patches in their lives).

I am an ex-cult member, and still suffer some of the psychological 
effects 36 years later!


snip


// The Incident //


snip

Yup: similar situation about 16 years ago with some educational software 
in Scotland.



// The Repercussions //


Well, in my case, just someone shouting at me, saying things that were 
unbelievably foul-mouthed,

and, inevitably, loss of considerable income for 6 months' hard slog.



// The Abyss //


Thank God I'm a Sociopath/Arrogant sausage? Conceited B. choose your term.



// Lessons Learned //
I’ve still not heard from or spoken to the client just yet.


Don't you just love it when a client just drops you, like a hot potato?


  They will be
unaware of the breakdown I’ve had and I’m not sure, professionally, if I
should tell them.


Nope: don't tell them. Your Mum/Granny/Brother had a terrible something 
. . .



  I certainly don’t feel right putting in my invoice for
the 3-4 months work for this stage of the app as it didn’t work when they
actually needed it.


Hang about. You did do a considerable amount of work, and according to 
your own account a large chunk of the functionality
worked; enough so that the audience seeing the quiz show was 
sufficiently fooled to belive everything was as it should be.


AND: face facts: ALL television is about smoke and mirrors: Quiz shows 
being some of the smokiest!



  That’s the second time a LiveCode app has put me in
this position. I would have been employed to provide the software for the
tv show and others if it all gone as it should but that bridge is now ashes
in the Atlantic. Thanks, LC/Google!

Now I (again!) have to re-evaluate where I go from here. Certainly, my
trust in third-party add-ons has gone and I will never again rely on them.
I would rather rewrite my own than feel I could assume that they had
written it correctly. Despite being distributed as part of LC, mergext is
not open source so can’t be repaired by any of us. LC 9 is a shambles and
still not ready for release - in its current state it’s basically still in
beta. They seem unprepared to fix any of the project browser stuff (which
we can’t fix easily because it’s part of the ide and they won’t accept ide
amendments due to the fact it can’t be checked and compared using
GitHub!!!) and instead keep adding more features elsewhere, themselves
which don’t seem to be anywhere near completion (HTML, native java/objc,
etc). And what have they done to the script editor, the MAIN part of LC we
use - broken!! Little to no decent documentation or tutorials for any of
these features. And a doc ide that makes it impossible to find the guidance
you need.


I am a fortunate chap insofar as LiveCode works 99% for my main act [ 
Devawriter Pro ]


( although it's being poxy down in some parts of the Unicode "undergrowth" )

however, all that you have written about LiveCode and the company's 
attitude chimes in with

my own feelings.

If LiveCode are listening/reading, I would like to suggest that, instead 
of a fancy conference next year
they choose about 24 people who have been developing stuff with LiveCode 
for some time, buy them budget
air tickets and f