date:20180906

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 9/6/18 9:02 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 09/06/2018 06:08 PM, James At The Hale via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Mark asked:
 There's a new extension store on the way?
>>>
>>> Well it is here already. Only it currently only offers widgets.
...
>> Did I miss an announcement? Do you have a link?
>
> You have to open the LC tools palette occasionally. ;)

Of course.  At least once a month I find some rare need for something 
not already in my streamlined tools. ;)

How often does one need an analog clock?  I can't imagine I'll ever 
build my own UI for that, so my tools keep the IDE's tools palette just 
a quick click away for the times when it's useful.  They offer 
completeness, devo offers awareness of priorities.  Best tool for the 
job at hand, and devo keeps everything more easily accessible than the 
IDE itself so I don't have to choose, I have it all.

> At the top is a big plus sign. Clicking that opens a stack/window much
> as Sample Stacks does. A tabbed interface gives access to a number of
> Libraries, Widgets, and the Store (which is barely populated.)

Curious.  For all the things in the LC universe it would never have 
occurred to me that they'd bet the farm of the community repository, the 
cornerstone of development languages so folks can find the 10,000 wheels 
we don't need to reinvent, on the odd chance that someone might click an 
unlabeled icon of an arithmetic symbol in the corner of a temporal 
utility window.

Surely it's also in the Tools menu and at the Web site, yes?

> I don't know how to get our own contributions there.

Ah, it appears to be quite something else.  This is still the same 
LCB-specific subset we've had for several versions.

It is very separate from everything else in our community, the stuff we 
share so often here and elsewhere in a hundred different place, all the 
LC Script snippets, stacks, externals, templates, examples, and 
libraries.  And it offers no integration with Github or other 
repositories widely used in our community, as the community-built tool 
was proposed to do.

Even the LCB-specific collection that's there has incomplete metadata. 
For example, picking one at random I'm looking at a widget named "Circle 
Progress", where its license type is listed as "community".   There is 
no common license by that name; few can know what that means.  If they 
mean the license used by the LC Community Edition, that would be 
"GPLv3", a name immediately recognizable by those noting the license 
type.  If there is indeed some non-standard license the author calls 
"community", we'll need the license text there to know if the terms 
allow us to use it in our work.

It seems this Builder-specific collection and revOnline/Share this 
Stack/Sample Stacks/livecodeshare are both legacy projects of specific 
scope; the repo Kevin discussed in Nov 2016 sounded like something more 
comprehensive to handle the full scope of sharing needs.

I look forward to seeing how they integrate the two into a single 
solution, and hopefully a date when that is expected to be available.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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This is disturbing!

Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???

THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as well to 
make sure there is an exact match???

Bob S


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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance

2018-09-06 Thread Neville Smythe via use-livecode

Curry:

Your last benchmark mentioned that this was a test for Windows 10. I may have 
missed this qualifier in the previous discussion: do I take it that the 
slowdown in performance noted are all Windows 10 tests? Has performance on Mac 
and Linux also degraded by similar amounts?

I ask because of the earlier discussion of the drastic slowdown in saving a 
stack under Windows 10 [bug 21305 
] (from x10 to x30 longer 
than on a Mac or Linux box). This applies to LC 8, and is a comparison between 
platforms rather than versions of LC, but if the answer to my second question 
above is no, then it would particularly direct attention of the engineers to 
the Windows engine.

BTW, just for interest I ran the repeat loop  benchmark in LC8 on my Mac, and 
then Windows 10 and  Linux Ubuntu 16.04 both under Parallels emulation on the 
same Mac. As expected the Windows 10 run was a little slower (about 12% slower) 
than the Mac 64 bit test, understandable given it is running in emulation. But 
the Linux run was about  10% *faster* than the Mac!!

Neville Smythe
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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

2018-09-06 Thread James At The Hale via use-livecode

Mark asked:
> There's a new extension store on the way?


Well it is here already. Only it currently only offers widgets.
The plan, as presented in one of the LC Globals a while back, is for this to be 
a one stop shop for all.
The current livecodeshare will be migrated across and the ability to upload 
snippets etc will be added.

James

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner


On 09/06/2018 06:08 PM, James At The Hale via use-livecode wrote:

Mark asked:

There's a new extension store on the way?



Well it is here already. Only it currently only offers widgets.
The plan, as presented in one of the LC Globals a while back, is for this to be 
a one stop shop for all.
The current livecodeshare will be migrated across and the ability to upload 
snippets etc will be added.


Did I miss an announcement? Do you have a link?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner


James At The Hale wrote:

> The plan, as presented in one of the LC Globals a while back, is for
> this to be a one stop shop for all.
> The current livecodeshare will be migrated across and the ability to
> upload snippets etc will be added.

When?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: This is disturbing!


Bob Sneidar wrote:
> Yes, but it's the kind of thing that can bite a new programmer in the
> butt.

HyperTalk had a reputation for being difficult to learn. ;)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: The Visible Hilited Line of a Datagrid

2018-09-06 Thread Paul Dupuis via use-livecode

I don't have the dictionary handy, so check it for this, but I thought the:

dgHilitedIndex is the record number in the array
and
dgHilitedLine was the visible line number?

Look up dgHilitedLine vs dgHilitedIndex


On 9/6/2018 7:38 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> It must be late in the day, but I am having a hard time getting the VISIBLE 
> hilited line of a table datagrid. I can do the math based on the scroll and 
> all that, but what I want is for example, in a scrolled datagrid, the user 
> clicks on the first visible line. I want to return 1, or if the second 
> visible line I want to return 2. I was given to understand that when 
> scrolling, the fields are drawn from scratch, but their names reflect their 
> index and NOT their visible position in the scrolled grid! 
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Bob S
>
>
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode


Mike Kerner wrote:

I like the is vs = idea.


Me too, but I'm afraid decades of code across the entire xTalk world 
form a substantial enough legacy to render the change prohibitive.


Any suggestions for a new operator token to specify numeric equivalence?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Script Editor Magic Keys

Is the some documentation the Script Editor, auto complete et. al.?

BR

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

2018-09-06 Thread James At The Hale via use-livecode

Richard wrote of a repository but isn’t this what the new extension store is 
supposed to provide?


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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

2018-09-06 Thread hh via use-livecode

How did you do the JavaScript (in browser?) and
how did you do the timing?

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Re: Sample Stacks

hh wrote:

> Jacques LG wrote:
>> We can upload zip files to Sample Stacks?  ...
>
> No.

Unfortunate.  Hopefully that will be changed soon. Zip is a common 
foundation for many compound document types.

> But you can, of course, use a stack container for zips.

I used to do that, but ever since the IDE introduced the limitation 
about stack name conflicts, and the ongoing confusion about what is and 
isn't in memory stemming from the lack of a purge command, I've since 
migrated to using LSON (encoded arrays) as the LC-native solution for 
compound-element storage.

LSON offers pretty much all the benefits of property sets in stack 
files, but with all the predictable ease of working with any data stored 
in an array variable.

Of course the one thing stack files are better at than anything else is 
when you need to store LC controls.  Many alternatives, none as compact 
or convenient.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

James At The Hale wrote:
> Richard wrote of a repository but isn’t this what the new extension
> store is supposed to provide?

I haven't seen an announcement of a new extension store, but if it 
includes widgets, libraries, externals, scripts, and stack files and is 
searchable by type, license, and price, for everything we share in our 
community, both commercial and no charge, and both proprietary and open 
source, then yes, that would be what we need.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web

 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Sample Stacks

2018-09-06 Thread hh via use-livecode

Was "ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner"

Jacques LG wrote:
> We can upload zip files to Sample Stacks?  ...

No. But you can, of course, use a stack container for zips.
I once uploaded a simple version:
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/805/ZipContainer

"Sample Stacks" had an update before a year or so.

It is fine now, better than the livecodeshare interface.
The best thing with it:
You have the stacks open in memory when clicking download,
then you can save them (or not).

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?


Hi Matthias,

On 2018-09-05 10:34, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

file "/home/xxx/public_html/xx/tz.lc"
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with domain (runtime)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with description (unable to
load foreign library)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (62)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (737)
  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
  row 4, col 5: Function: error in function handler (FromUniversaltime)
  row 4, col 5: put: error in expression

This works in LC IDE (w/o Line 1).


The IDE and standalone builder have an extra step which makes sure an 
extension can find its code (shared library) resources. In this specific 
case, before 'load extension' you need to do:


set the revLibraryMapping["tz"] to 
"/home/ua829968/public_html/rebbe.tech/tz-test/extensions/com.livecode.library.timezone/code/x86_64-linux/tz.so"


(substitute x86_64-linux for x86-linux, if you are running on a 32-bit 
host)


This tells the engine where to find the 'tz' library which is referenced 
by the foreign handler bindings in the tz extension.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6660

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode

Thank you very much Mark. 
With that addition it works now. The timezone library is a great enhancement 
for Livecode Server. No need to call external php code to do timezone 
conversions.

And thanks for the ps. I can´t wait for 9.1 to test. :)

Regards

Matthias




> Am 06.09.2018 um 11:57 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> On 2018-09-05 10:34, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> file "/home/xxx/public_html/xx/tz.lc"
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with domain (runtime)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with description (unable to
>> load foreign library)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (62)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (737)
>>  row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
>>  row 4, col 5: Function: error in function handler (FromUniversaltime)
>>  row 4, col 5: put: error in expression
>> This works in LC IDE (w/o Line 1).
> 
> The IDE and standalone builder have an extra step which makes sure an 
> extension can find its code (shared library) resources. In this specific 
> case, before 'load extension' you need to do:
> 
> set the revLibraryMapping["tz"] to 
> "/home/ua829968/public_html/rebbe.tech/tz-test/extensions/com.livecode.library.timezone/code/x86_64-linux/tz.so"
> 
> (substitute x86_64-linux for x86-linux, if you are running on a 32-bit host)
> 
> This tells the engine where to find the 'tz' library which is referenced by 
> the foreign handler bindings in the tz extension.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> P.S. https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6660
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: 3WDevolution question

William Prothero wrote:

> Richard:
> Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about
> the backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC
> toolbar menu item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been
> blaming Devo incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
>
> If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the
> mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged
> fully to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1
> RC3, it won’t return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to
> leave space for the IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether
> it’s visible or not.

I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to 
use a floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on 
top of a document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is 
the windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be 
placed in a way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any 
other location sufficiently away from the left edge, the 
windowBoundingRect is apparently restore to the normal bounds everyone 
normally expects.

You will find that the IDE's change to the windowBoundingRect affects 
all windows when using the maximize option for a window.

This affects the dragging of 4W devolution's window because I have a 
customized appearance with my own title bar, and have scripted the 
dragging behavior to account for the windowBoundingRect so the window 
cannot be submarined beneath the menu bar or the Dock.

In my own work, I spend relatively little time with the IDE's tool 
palette open. Layout normally occupies just a bit of up-front time, with 
most of my time spend scripting the objects I'd laid out.  And of course 
since the devo palette has its own controls for creating the two most 
commonly-used objects, buttons and fields, sometimes I go weeks without 
ever opening the IDE's tool palette at all.

And since devo makes it more convenient to open and close the IDE's tool 
palette with its generously-sized toggle buttons for the most common IDE 
windows, I find that when I do use the IDE's tool palette it's just to 
create an object or two and then I put it away again until I need it. 
It takes up a LOT of room for something used so seldom during the 
workflow; making it easy to access it ONLY WHEN I NEED IT was part of 
the motivation for making devo.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Trevor DeVore via use-livecode

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 5:55 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> And thanks for the ps. I can´t wait for 9.1 to test. :)
>
No need to wait. I downloaded the LCB file and built it in the extension
builder using 9.0. I just had to comment out the “resolve file” line which
that caused an error because it is new syntax. Other than that the
macStatusBar code works great in 9.0 and I have implemented it in an
application.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

2018-09-06 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode




hh:

> How did you do the JavaScript (in browser?)

I wrote the JS code by hand, scripted the stack to copy it to clipboard 
after each test, and ran it on js.do


> and how did you do the timing?

It's in the test code; download and all will be revealed! ;)

Later I will add the empty loop test and a math-intensive test 
variation. Similar results though; LC 9 is 2.8x slower for empty loop 
and about 2x slower for math-intensive.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode

Trevor, thanks for letting me know.

I am not very used with GitHub. Still learning how to organize my stuff.

So where do i find the .lcb file?

Regards,

Matthias


> Am 06.09.2018 um 13:18 schrieb Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 5:55 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> And thanks for the ps. I can´t wait for 9.1 to test. :)
>> 
> No need to wait. I downloaded the LCB file and built it in the extension
> builder using 9.0. I just had to comment out the “resolve file” line which
> that caused an error because it is new syntax. Other than that the
> macStatusBar code works great in 9.0 and I have implemented it in an
> application.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
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Matthias Rebbe
Tel +49 5741 31
‌https://matthiasrebbe.eu ‌

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode

Mark,


when using an other LCB library , where do i see what i have to enter in

set the revLibraryMapping[“?? ”] …….

I cannot find any information about revLibraryMapping in the dictionary.

Regards,

Matthias



> Am 06.09.2018 um 12:54 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Thank you very much Mark. 
> With that addition it works now. The timezone library is a great enhancement 
> for Livecode Server. No need to call external php code to do timezone 
> conversions.
> 
> And thanks for the ps. I can´t wait for 9.1 to test. :)
> 
> Regards
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 06.09.2018 um 11:57 schrieb Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> On 2018-09-05 10:34, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>>> file "/home/xxx/public_html/xx/tz.lc"
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with domain (runtime)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with description (unable to
>>> load foreign library)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (62)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with file (timezone.lcb)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with line (737)
>>> row 4, col 5: extension: error occurred with column (1)
>>> row 4, col 5: Function: error in function handler (FromUniversaltime)
>>> row 4, col 5: put: error in expression
>>> This works in LC IDE (w/o Line 1).
>> 
>> The IDE and standalone builder have an extra step which makes sure an 
>> extension can find its code (shared library) resources. In this specific 
>> case, before 'load extension' you need to do:
>> 
>> set the revLibraryMapping["tz"] to 
>> "/home/ua829968/public_html/rebbe.tech/tz-test/extensions/com.livecode.library.timezone/code/x86_64-linux/tz.so"
>> 
>> (substitute x86_64-linux for x86-linux, if you are running on a 32-bit host)
>> 
>> This tells the engine where to find the 'tz' library which is referenced by 
>> the foreign handler bindings in the tz extension.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> P.S. https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6660
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

Thanks Brian. I would have done it, but it seemed small potatoes to me. And I 
never know if there is a good reason it works the way it does. 

Bob S


> On Sep 5, 2018, at 21:06 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bug report and PR submitted.
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21567
> 
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6675
> 
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 7:12 PM Brian Milby  wrote:
> 
>> That should be pretty easy to change. You can actually pass any invalid
>> string (I.e. non-existing key path) to clear, but empty makes more sense.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> On Sep 5, 2018, 5:21 PM -0500, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> 
>> Not a biggie, but try getting the hilitedElement of a tree view widget
>> when nothing is selected. It returns empty. Now try setting the
>> hilitedElement of a tree view widget to empty. Runtime error! You have to
>> set it to 0, and then it still returns and displays empty in the property
>> inspector! Odd huh?
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread panagiotis merakos via use-livecode

Hello Matthias,

In the PR Mark posted, click on the tab "Files Changed". Then scroll down
until you see the diffs for the macstatusmenu.lcb file. Click on the "View"
button for this file. Then click on "Raw". This should take you to this
page:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/livecode/livecode/64d08e39ac161530cb62ac06e784ad3d5be8725e/extensions/libraries/macstatusmenu/macstatusmenu.lcb

Then just choose Save As .. etc

Best,
Panos
--

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:27 PM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Trevor, thanks for letting me know.
>
> I am not very used with GitHub. Still learning how to organize my stuff.
>
> So where do i find the .lcb file?
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthias
>
>
> > Am 06.09.2018 um 13:18 schrieb Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >:
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 5:55 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> And thanks for the ps. I can´t wait for 9.1 to test. :)
> >>
> > No need to wait. I downloaded the LCB file and built it in the extension
> > builder using 9.0. I just had to comment out the “resolve file” line
> which
> > that caused an error because it is new syntax. Other than that the
> > macStatusBar code works great in 9.0 and I have implemented it in an
> > application.
> >
> > --
> > Trevor DeVore
> > ___
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> Matthias Rebbe
> Tel +49 5741 31
> ‌https://matthiasrebbe.eu ‌
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Re: This is disturbing!

so the description seems to imply that the comparison should be as strings
if double-quotes are included around the literals.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:14 PM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> Dictionary:
> First, if you look in the operands, it says
> *The operands value1 and value2 can be numbers, literal strings of
> characters (delimited with double quotes), or any sources of value,
> including arrays.*
> The example for comparing two strings is
>
> "ABC" = "abc" -- true if and only if caseSensitive is false
>
>

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!


On 09/06/2018 09:06 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

P.S. The engine has *always* worked like this - as have xTalks in 
general. It's why you never have to put any explicit type conversion 
anywhere when you are interchanging anything and things still work as 
expected.




Yeah. IMO automatic type conversion is one of the failure points of the 
xtalk paradigm, but it's always been thus.


--
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 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: This is disturbing!


On 2018-09-06 18:52, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if it 
is a
little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is 
true)


Well the explanation can be fixed :)

Its hard to say whether the language would be better or worse if only 
'strict' numeric strings were considered equal. After all you'd still 
have that "1.0" is "1" is "1.0" is ... which whilst more obvious 
perhaps, still means you have to work harder to do strict string 
equality checking (or comparison).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: This is disturbing!

dictionary says when comparing strings we go char by char, and says that
quotes around the literal causes it to be evaluated as a string.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:57 AM Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> If I put anything else in place of the dot, I get a fail, but with the
> dot, i get true
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:55 AM Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> It seems to only compare the integer part of the statements. If you
>> substitute the integer with a letter, then it reports false. But still
>> strange as the quotation marks should indicates that this is a string.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Tore Nilsen
>>
>> ---
>> This mail contains no viruses or bacteria as it is electronically
>> produced and untouched by human hands. Once printed it may or may not
>> contain various microorganisms that can cause diseases. Print and hand out
>> at own risk. Unsolicited distribution of this mail is prohibited.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:46 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>> >
>> > Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
>> >
>> > THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as
>> well to make sure there is an exact match???
>> >
>> > Bob S
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
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>> subscription preferences:
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!


On 2018-09-06 18:02, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
dictionary says when comparing strings we go char by char, and says 
that

quotes around the literal causes it to be evaluated as a string.


Where in the dictionary? That should be revised.

Quotes make no difference - numbers and strings which look like numbers 
are treated the same... When doing comparisons, the engine tries to 
convert both sides to numbers before comparing, if both sides are 
numbers they are compared as numbers.


Both '1 is 1.0' or '"1" is "1.0"' have the same result.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

P.S. The engine has *always* worked like this - as have xTalks in 
general. It's why you never have to put any explicit type conversion 
anywhere when you are interchanging anything and things still work as 
expected.


--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner

On 09/06/2018 03:12 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

James At The Hale wrote:
 > Richard wrote of a repository but isn’t this what the new extension
 > store is supposed to provide?

I haven't seen an announcement of a new extension store, but if it 
includes widgets, libraries, externals, scripts, and stack files and is 
searchable by type, license, and price, for everything we share in our 
community, both commercial and no charge, and both proprietary and open 
source, then yes, that would be what we need.

There's a new extension store on the way?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

actionDoubleClick message is not getting sent or else trapped by the widget 
either. Is that a read/write function only? I have a tree view set to read 
only. 

Bob S


> On Sep 6, 2018, at 09:04 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ve done so much in that widget that it was easy to tackle. From an English 
> like syntax, I think it just makes sense to use the “empty” method of 
> removing the selection.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian

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Re: 3WDevolution question

2018-09-06 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode

Richard,
Thanks for looking into this. My problem came when the Devo palette wouldn’t 
move to the left, even if the IDE tools palette was closed. But, it’s easy to 
fix by just moving the IDE Tools palette to the right until it lets me move the 
Devo palette to the left, then it no longer snaps right.

No worries, it’s just an idiosyncrasy that’s easily dealt with.
Best,
Bill

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > Richard:
> > Here’s what I found on the palette thing. I’m no longer worried about
> > the backdrop because it was just me not seeing that there was a LC
> > toolbar menu item that would turn it off. In fact, I may have been
> > blaming Devo incorrectly, when it was LC’s responsibility.
> >
> > If you, in 9.0.1 RC 2 or 3, drag the 4W toolbar to the right, lift the
> > mouse, then drag it back to the left, I see it refusing to be dragged
> > fully to the left. In LC 8.2.0, it acts normally, but in  LC 9.0.1
> > RC3, it won’t return all the way left. It seems like it’s trying to
> > leave space for the IDE Tools palette, but it doesn’t matter whether
> > it’s visible or not.
> 
> I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to use a 
> floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on top of a 
> document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is the 
> windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be placed in a 
> way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any other location 
> sufficiently away from the left edge, the windowBoundingRect is apparently 
> restore to the normal bounds everyone normally expects.
> 


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Re: This is disturbing!

If I put anything else in place of the dot, I get a fail, but with the dot,
i get true

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:55 AM Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It seems to only compare the integer part of the statements. If you
> substitute the integer with a letter, then it reports false. But still
> strange as the quotation marks should indicates that this is a string.
>
> Best regards
> Tore Nilsen
>
> ---
> This mail contains no viruses or bacteria as it is electronically produced
> and untouched by human hands. Once printed it may or may not contain
> various microorganisms that can cause diseases. Print and hand out at own
> risk. Unsolicited distribution of this mail is prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:46 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
> >
> > THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as
> well to make sure there is an exact match???
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

2018-09-06 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode

I’ve done so much in that widget that it was easy to tackle. From an English 
like syntax, I think it just makes sense to use the “empty” method of removing 
the selection.

Thanks,
Brian
On Sep 6, 2018, 9:43 AM -0500, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Thanks Brian. I would have done it, but it seemed small potatoes to me. And I 
> never know if there is a good reason it works the way it does.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 5, 2018, at 21:06 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Bug report and PR submitted.
> >
> > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21567
> >
> > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6675
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 7:12 PM Brian Milby  wrote:
> >
> > > That should be pretty easy to change. You can actually pass any invalid
> > > string (I.e. non-existing key path) to clear, but empty makes more sense.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brian
> > > On Sep 5, 2018, 5:21 PM -0500, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > >
> > > Not a biggie, but try getting the hilitedElement of a tree view widget
> > > when nothing is selected. It returns empty. Now try setting the
> > > hilitedElement of a tree view widget to empty. Runtime error! You have to
> > > set it to 0, and then it still returns and displays empty in the property
> > > inspector! Odd huh?
> > >
> > > Bob S
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
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> > >
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Re: This is disturbing!

Dictionary:
First, if you look in the operands, it says
*The operands value1 and value2 can be numbers, literal strings of
characters (delimited with double quotes), or any sources of value,
including arrays.*
The example for comparing two strings is

"ABC" = "abc" -- true if and only if caseSensitive is false
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Re: This is disturbing!


On 2018-09-06 18:21, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

Yeah. IMO automatic type conversion is one of the failure points of
the xtalk paradigm, but it's always been thus.


To be fair, in the days of HyperCard when everything was strings (and 
numbers were decimal strings) the rules worked absolutely fine I think.


However, the use of doubles as the internal rep for numbers, and 
introduction of arrays broke a few invariants a consistent 
implementation of the above view relies upon - hence the annoying points 
of friction.


I don't think implicit type conversion is the problem per-se - just the 
precise details of what gets converted to what, and the inability to say 
'at this point, this needs to actually be a '.


If you want to be abstract about it then you can view a programming 
language as a compression algorithm - it is a way to express a set of 
possible outcomes in a linear sequence of text. With that point of view, 
they suffer exactly the same problem as any compression algorithm 
suffers - all compression algorithms will expand some input.


i.e. What you might gain in some places in terms of ease / clarity / 
ability; you will lose elsewhere - the hard bit is making sure that such 
cases are 'edge' cases and easily avoided.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Tore Nilsen via use-livecode

I think this is because the dot is also the decimal sign. Therefore it 
interprets the strings as numerical values. And = and is are synonyms.
I guess if you write something like put «6» + «6» you will get 12 as the result.

Best regards
Tore Nilsen

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> 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:57 skrev Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> If I put anything else in place of the dot, I get a fail, but with the dot,
> i get true
> 
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:55 AM Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> It seems to only compare the integer part of the statements. If you
>> substitute the integer with a letter, then it reports false. But still
>> strange as the quotation marks should indicates that this is a string.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Tore Nilsen
>> 
>> ---
>> This mail contains no viruses or bacteria as it is electronically produced
>> and untouched by human hands. Once printed it may or may not contain
>> various microorganisms that can cause diseases. Print and hand out at own
>> risk. Unsolicited distribution of this mail is prohibited.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:46 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
>>> 
>>> THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as
>> well to make sure there is an exact match???
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
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> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

2018-09-06 Thread hh via use-livecode

Curry,

sorry I overlooked the post with your download link

> http://curryk.com/showdown.zip

This is a *fine* comparison stack.

You could think about adding for LC 8/9 a browser widget and in
handler "work done", instead of copying to the clipboard,

set htmltext of widget "browser" to the cJS of the target

By that it is another example for using JS via a browser widget
and shows in which usecases it is worth to "outsource"
lengthy computations (walking through imagedata is also one).



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Re: This is disturbing!

wow.  that's not cool.  I just tried "is" and yep.  is.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:47 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
>
> THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as well
> to make sure there is an exact match???
>
> Bob S
>
>
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-- 
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On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Tore Nilsen via use-livecode

It seems to only compare the integer part of the statements. If you substitute 
the integer with a letter, then it reports false. But still strange as the 
quotation marks should indicates that this is a string.

Best regards
Tore Nilsen

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> 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:46 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
> 
> THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as well to 
> make sure there is an exact match???
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Tore Nilsen via use-livecode

It seems as long as all characters in the string can be numerical values, they 
are treated as such. Space is treated as whitespace or empty. My guess for  «6» 
+ «6» to return 12 was right.


Tore Nilsen

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> 06. sep. 2018 kl. 18:02 skrev Tore Nilsen via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I think this is because the dot is also the decimal sign. Therefore it 
> interprets the strings as numerical values. And = and is are synonyms.
> I guess if you write something like put «6» + «6» you will get 12 as the 
> result.
> 
> Best regards
> Tore Nilsen
> 
> ---
> This mail contains no viruses or bacteria as it is electronically produced 
> and untouched by human hands. Once printed it may or may not contain various 
> microorganisms that can cause diseases. Print and hand out at own risk. 
> Unsolicited distribution of this mail is prohibited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:57 skrev Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> If I put anything else in place of the dot, I get a fail, but with the dot,
>> i get true
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:55 AM Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It seems to only compare the integer part of the statements. If you
>>> substitute the integer with a letter, then it reports false. But still
>>> strange as the quotation marks should indicates that this is a string.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Tore Nilsen
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This mail contains no viruses or bacteria as it is electronically produced
>>> and untouched by human hands. Once printed it may or may not contain
>>> various microorganisms that can cause diseases. Print and hand out at own
>>> risk. Unsolicited distribution of this mail is prohibited.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 06. sep. 2018 kl. 17:46 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
 
 Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
 
 THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as
>>> well to make sure there is an exact match???
 
 Bob S
 
 
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>> 
>> 
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>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>  and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!


On 2018-09-06 18:14, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

Dictionary:
First, if you look in the operands, it says
*The operands value1 and value2 can be numbers, literal strings of
characters (delimited with double quotes), or any sources of value,
including arrays.*
The example for comparing two strings is

"ABC" = "abc" -- true if and only if caseSensitive is false


To be fair, the 'is' entry it doesn't say anything about what is 
interpreted 'as a string' explicitly - it just says 'literal strings of 
characters (delimited by double quotes)' - however as worded it is a 
little misleading.


All the comparison operator docs could do with some revision to make the 
actual behavior crystal clear :D


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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Re: This is disturbing!

Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if it is a
little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is true)

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:43 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2018-09-06 18:21, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
> > Yeah. IMO automatic type conversion is one of the failure points of
> > the xtalk paradigm, but it's always been thus.
>
> To be fair, in the days of HyperCard when everything was strings (and
> numbers were decimal strings) the rules worked absolutely fine I think.
>
> However, the use of doubles as the internal rep for numbers, and
> introduction of arrays broke a few invariants a consistent
> implementation of the above view relies upon - hence the annoying points
> of friction.
>
> I don't think implicit type conversion is the problem per-se - just the
> precise details of what gets converted to what, and the inability to say
> 'at this point, this needs to actually be a '.
>
> If you want to be abstract about it then you can view a programming
> language as a compression algorithm - it is a way to express a set of
> possible outcomes in a linear sequence of text. With that point of view,
> they suffer exactly the same problem as any compression algorithm
> suffers - all compression algorithms will expand some input.
>
> i.e. What you might gain in some places in terms of ease / clarity /
> ability; you will lose elsewhere - the hard bit is making sure that such
> cases are 'edge' cases and easily avoided.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Paul Dupuis via use-livecode

On 9/6/2018 11:46 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
>
> THAT is disturbing! So now we have to check the length of a string as well to 
> make sure there is an exact match???
>

This is the price of having a "type-less" programming language. "6." get
evaluated to see if it is numeric, which it is an is treated as the
number 6. Likewise with "6. " and 6 does equal 6.

Now, in  typed language, you would have declared both things as STRINGs
and you would get a false.

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Re: This is disturbing!

By way of rehtoric, and by no means a suggestion of any change in the engine, 
it might have been better if "is" did a strict string comparison, while "=" or 
"is equal to" attempted a numerical type conversion, and reverted to a string 
comparison if either arguement failed. 

What *might* be possible is adding support for "exactly equal to" or "==" where 
1.0 == 1 is still true, but "1.0" == "1" is not. 

Bob S

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 10:01 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if it is a
>> little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is true)
> 
> Well the explanation can be fixed :)
> 
> Its hard to say whether the language would be better or worse if only 
> 'strict' numeric strings were considered equal. After all you'd still have 
> that "1.0" is "1" is "1.0" is ... which whilst more obvious perhaps, 
> still means you have to work harder to do strict string equality checking (or 
> comparison).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.

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Re: This is disturbing!

Ignoring the leading or trailing whitespace is weird and counterintuitive.
If the language was more perfect, I think it would first not ignore the
other characters in the string no matter what they look like, then do the
implicit type coercion and then the comparison, even though there are
definitely use cases where 1≠1.0≠1.00, but those sorts of edge
cases perhaps better left documented and not handled.
In all cases, where intuition and behavior are not in line, the manual
should fill in the gap.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:02 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2018-09-06 18:52, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if it
> > is a
> > little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is
> > true)
>
> Well the explanation can be fixed :)
>
> Its hard to say whether the language would be better or worse if only
> 'strict' numeric strings were considered equal. After all you'd still
> have that "1.0" is "1" is "1.0" is ... which whilst more obvious
> perhaps, still means you have to work harder to do strict string
> equality checking (or comparison).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
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> subscription preferences:
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>

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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

If it is supposed to, I can file the bug report. Not asking anyone to do my 
work for me. I just need to know if it is supposed to and isn't, and I'll file 
it. 

Bob S


> On Sep 6, 2018, at 10:33 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> actionDoubleClick message is not getting sent or else trapped by the widget 
> either. Is that a read/write function only? I have a tree view set to read 
> only. 
> 
> Bob S


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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode

I wonder is the reason "6" and "6." are treated as the same is because 
"6." is read as "6.0"?


Late to the party, I know . . .

Richmond.

On 6/9/2018 10:34 pm, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote:

Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???

It’s somewhat similar to
value(“h “) is equal to value(“h”),
while
“h “ is not equal to “h”.

I’m not disturbed but appreciative that the engine tries to convert both sides 
to numbers when doing a comparison. Just must remember that and use more 
“string-y” ways to compare strings as only strings.
For example other functions can reveal the strings “6. “ and “6.” are not the 
same string, such as length(“6. “) is not equal to length( “6.”).

Jim Lambert


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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode

"bite a new programmer in the butt" . . . well, as a person who was a
new programmer in 1975 and found
things very difficult to understand at first (FORTRAN IV) I certainly
don't remember having a sore bottom!

I do know, that is numerical calculations empty spaces are exactly that:
empty space.

While in string variables empty spaces are text.

The problem might arrise because LiveCode seems not to differentiate (on
the surface at least) between

numerical variable and string variables.

Richmond.

On 6/9/2018 10:47 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Yes, but it's the kind of thing that can bite a new programmer in the butt. And the trouble with
your comparison is that length("7. ") IS equal to length("6. "). So multiple
comparisons have to be made. But this is an edge case I admit. I was only trying to maintain an
index number for a TreeView widget, since the arrayData is not numerically indexed making sorting
by order added a pain. I ended up using a datagrid anyway.

Bob S

On Sep 6, 2018, at 12:34 , Jim Lambert via use-livecode
wrote:

Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???

It’s somewhat similar to
value(“h “) is equal to value(“h”),
while
“h “ is not equal to “h”.

I’m not disturbed but appreciative that the engine tries to convert both sides
to numbers when doing a comparison. Just must remember that and use more
“string-y” ways to compare strings as only strings.
For example other functions can reveal the strings “6. “ and “6.” are not the
same string, such as length(“6. “) is not equal to length( “6.”).

Jim Lambert

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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

2018-09-06 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode

It is working here. You only get the message for leaf nodes. In widget script I 
have:

on actionDoubleClick pPath
put pPath
end actionDoubleClick

Thanks,
Brian
On Sep 6, 2018, 12:35 PM -0500, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> If it is supposed to, I can file the bug report. Not asking anyone to do my 
> work for me. I just need to know if it is supposed to and isn't, and I'll 
> file it.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Sep 6, 2018, at 10:33 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > actionDoubleClick message is not getting sent or else trapped by the widget 
> > either. Is that a read/write function only? I have a tree view set to read 
> > only.
> >
> > Bob S
>
>
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode

> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???

It’s somewhat similar to 
value(“h “) is equal to value(“h”), 
while 
“h “ is not equal to “h”.

I’m not disturbed but appreciative that the engine tries to convert both sides 
to numbers when doing a comparison. Just must remember that and use more 
“string-y” ways to compare strings as only strings.
For example other functions can reveal the strings “6. “ and “6.” are not the 
same string, such as length(“6. “) is not equal to length( “6.”).

Jim Lambert


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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode

I have come across this before .   I think what I encountered was "" = 0

I had to do a workaround, figured it was a a decision based on other engine
factors.

I can see it being ok in 99% of cases.


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:25 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ignoring the leading or trailing whitespace is weird and counterintuitive.
> If the language was more perfect, I think it would first not ignore the
> other characters in the string no matter what they look like, then do the
> implicit type coercion and then the comparison, even though there are
> definitely use cases where 1≠1.0≠1.00, but those sorts of edge
> cases perhaps better left documented and not handled.
> In all cases, where intuition and behavior are not in line, the manual
> should fill in the gap.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:02 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2018-09-06 18:52, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if it
> > > is a
> > > little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is
> > > true)
> >
> > Well the explanation can be fixed :)
> >
> > Its hard to say whether the language would be better or worse if only
> > 'strict' numeric strings were considered equal. After all you'd still
> > have that "1.0" is "1" is "1.0" is ... which whilst more obvious
> > perhaps, still means you have to work harder to do strict string
> > equality checking (or comparison).
> >
> > Warmest Regards,
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!

I like the is vs = idea.  I disagree with Paul that this is a price of it
being typeless.  No other whitespace character in LC seems to cause this
behavior.  It's not really true that it's typeless e.g. a blob (even though
technically a blob is a type).  It's just that the typing is implied and
the coercion is also implied.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:52 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have come across this before .   I think what I encountered was "" =
> 0
>
> I had to do a workaround, figured it was a a decision based on other engine
> factors.
>
> I can see it being ok in 99% of cases.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:25 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Ignoring the leading or trailing whitespace is weird and
> counterintuitive.
> > If the language was more perfect, I think it would first not ignore the
> > other characters in the string no matter what they look like, then do the
> > implicit type coercion and then the comparison, even though there are
> > definitely use cases where 1≠1.0≠1.00, but those sorts of edge
> > cases perhaps better left documented and not handled.
> > In all cases, where intuition and behavior are not in line, the manual
> > should fill in the gap.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:02 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2018-09-06 18:52, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> > > > Right.  If the explanation is clear then it's not an issue (even if
> it
> > > > is a
> > > > little weird - "6.abc"="6.xyz" is false but "6." is "6." is
> > > > true)
> > >
> > > Well the explanation can be fixed :)
> > >
> > > Its hard to say whether the language would be better or worse if only
> > > 'strict' numeric strings were considered equal. After all you'd still
> > > have that "1.0" is "1" is "1.0" is ... which whilst more obvious
> > > perhaps, still means you have to work harder to do strict string
> > > equality checking (or comparison).
> > >
> > > Warmest Regards,
> > >
> > > Mark.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
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   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: This is disturbing!

Yes, but it's the kind of thing that can bite a new programmer in the butt. And 
the trouble with your comparison is that length("7. ") IS equal to length("6. 
"). So multiple comparisons have to be made. But this is an edge case I admit. 
I was only trying to maintain an index number for a TreeView widget, since the 
arrayData is not numerically indexed making sorting by order added a pain. I 
ended up using a datagrid anyway. 

Bob S

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 12:34 , Jim Lambert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???
> 
> It’s somewhat similar to 
>   value(“h “) is equal to value(“h”), 
> while 
>   “h “ is not equal to “h”.
> 
> I’m not disturbed but appreciative that the engine tries to convert both 
> sides to numbers when doing a comparison. Just must remember that and use 
> more “string-y” ways to compare strings as only strings.
> For example other functions can reveal the strings “6. “ and “6.” are not the 
> same string, such as length(“6. “) is not equal to length( “6.”).
> 
> Jim Lambert

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Re: Another Tree View Oddity

Oh I get it! Crap. I am creating a little pallette I am callign QuickNotes, and 
the idea is that double clicking on an entry will add the thing you double 
clicked on after the current selection in the topstack. I was hoping I could 
just doubleclick a node to do this, but I can see I cannot. 

I am thinking I should have gone with a datagrid for this. 

Bob S

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 10:45 , Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It is working here. You only get the message for leaf nodes. In widget script 
> I have:
> 
> on actionDoubleClick pPath
> put pPath
> end actionDoubleClick
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Monte Goulding via use-livecode

> On 7 Sep 2018, at 12:34 am, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> when using an other LCB library , where do i see what i have to enter in
> 
> set the revLibraryMapping[“?? ”] …….
> 
> I cannot find any information about revLibraryMapping in the dictionary.

It is not documented because it is intended for use only by the IDE. It is only 
used for extensions include a compiled library like the tz.so library used by 
the timezone library. We will at some point do something for server so you can 
just put extensions in a folder like you do with externals.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report


On 09/06/2018 03:15 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


Hello Everyone,

Updated stack and more complete results - let me know if you get 
something very different on your machine.


I've added two additional LC benchmark test variations to the "showdown" 
test stack. That gives it empty loop (with i) and math-intensive options 
in the "root loops" button. I felt those were needed to round out the 
tests and cover more areas.


*Very* interesting. Thanks for the benchmark stack.
I'm seeing similar results to yours here on linux Mint 17.3, with the 
exception of Append 1280 item texts, where I'm seeing LC9 quite a bit 
faster than LC6.7.11. It's quite consistent across multiple runs. This 
may be due to the fact that LC6 is 32-bit and I'm comparing it with a 
64-bit LC9. For appending 5 item texts, I see a 3x slowdown in LC9, 
similar to your results.


Append 345678 Items texts (of 1280):
LC6.7.11 (32-bit):  4894 ms
LC9.01rc3 (64-bit): 3271 ms

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: 3WDevolution question


On 09/06/2018 01:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

I see what's happening there.  It appears the IDE team is attempting to 
use a floating palette in a highly unusual way: rather than floating on 
top of a document, it's assumed to be placed at the left and when it is 
the windowBoundingRect is adjusted so that no other windows can be 
placed in a way that overlap it.  When the tool palette is moved to any 
other location sufficiently away from the left edge, the 
windowBoundingRect is apparently restore to the normal bounds everyone 
normally expects.


You will find that the IDE's change to the windowBoundingRect affects 
all windows when using the maximize option for a window.


This affects the dragging of 4W devolution's window because I have a 
customized appearance with my own title bar, and have scripted the 
dragging behavior to account for the windowBoundingRect so the window 
cannot be submarined beneath the menu bar or the Dock.


Interesting. I haven't used the tools palette for many years, but I see 
no strange interactions between PowerTools and Devolution either on 
linux or on osx. Is the built-in tools palette doing something it 
shouldn't be doing then? That sounds worthy of a bug report.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Timezone library - how to use in Livecode Server?

2018-09-06 Thread Monte Goulding via use-livecode

> On 6 Sep 2018, at 9:18 pm, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>  I just had to comment out the “resolve file” line which
> that caused an error because it is new syntax.

It’s just important to remember if using the library with this commented out 
that it will only find images where you provide the full path rather than paths 
relative to the stack.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

2018-09-06 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode




Hello Everyone,

Updated stack and more complete results - let me know if you get 
something very different on your machine.


I've added two additional LC benchmark test variations to the "showdown" 
test stack. That gives it empty loop (with i) and math-intensive options 
in the "root loops" button. I felt those were needed to round out the 
tests and cover more areas.


(It has only 3 buttons, but each button has right-click and shift-click 
variations on the general test, explained in tooltips. Total of 12 
benchmarks.)


http://curryk.com/LC-Version-Showdown-B.zip

Also the result times (in ms) are now saved to a global variable with 
descriptive keys. I used that to crank out a comprehensive report of the 
benchmark results on both Mac and Windows:


http://curryk.com/lc-version-showdown-win-mac.png

http://curryk.com/lc-version-showdown-win-mac.pdf

As you can see, in many areas LiveCode is significantly slower (1.6x, 
1.8x, 2x, 3x, 4x) than it was 2 years ago.


Mac and Windows is a bit different, at least on my machines. Windows was 
hit worse on loops, Mac slowed down more on arrays. But the overall 
pattern is similar; except for some text operations, LC has become 
noticeably slower than it was before.


For those of us who have serious and substantial code - big problem! 
Understandable during the LC 7 refactoring, but now it's hopefully time 
to start tightening things up again.


(And no, I certainly don't consider performance a "use-case" for 
converting any serious blocks of code to JS or other languages! I can 
write JS well enough as you see, but if I wanted to write all my 
important code in JS, I would be there, not here. I take LC coding very 
seriously, maintain and produce a lot of extremely high-quality LCS 
code, and I consider LC a serious platform for coding. I want my 
important code, my serious code, right here in LCS. And I want to see LC 
gain popularity among coders. Trust me, performance is your friend and 
good things follow it, so any attention to performance should pay for 
itself.)


Anyway, I hope this info and effort helps the cause and helps LC! There 
are probably a number of important areas I missed, but it is a rather 
extensive benchmark already and does touch on a variety of the basics. 
That's all the tests I have time to design at the moment, must get back 
to other code, but this stack will make it fairly easy to add more tests 
in future and evaluate new versions on current tests. I hope to follow 
up with a satisfying performance "smackdown" where a new LC 9 or 10 mops 
the floor with the competition! :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



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The Visible Hilited Line of a Datagrid

It must be late in the day, but I am having a hard time getting the VISIBLE 
hilited line of a table datagrid. I can do the math based on the scroll and all 
that, but what I want is for example, in a scrolled datagrid, the user clicks 
on the first visible line. I want to return 1, or if the second visible line I 
want to return 2. I was given to understand that when scrolling, the fields are 
drawn from scratch, but their names reflect their index and NOT their visible 
position in the scrolled grid! 

Any ideas?

Bob S


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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance

2018-09-06 Thread Neville Smythe via use-livecode

ops, I should have waited for the next use-livecode email for the answer to my 
question! Thanks Curry


Neville Smythe
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Re: This is disturbing!

2018-09-06 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode

> RichardG wrote:
> Any suggestions for a new operator token to specify numeric equivalence?

Or maybe to specify string equivalence.

> Did anyone know that "6. " is equal to "6."???

string( "6. “) is not equal to string( "6.”)

where the function string() would tell LC not to try to convert the string into 
a number, but simply leave it as a literal string for comparison purposes.

Of course, another way to prevent LC from converting a textual number into an 
actual number is to append a string to the textual number:

whereas  "6. “  =  "6.”   returns TRUE
 "6. “ & “a” =  "6.” & “a”  returns FALSE.

Jim Lambert
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mergButton - transparent image possible?

2018-09-06 Thread Alan via use-livecode

Is it possible to set the transparency of a background (or foreground) image 
for a mergButton button?

Alternatively, are transparency settings used if using a PNG (if that's 
possible)?

I see that we can set the transparency of the background, border and other 
colours.

Monte or anyone else tried this?

cheers

Alan
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Re: ANN: LC Documentation Cache Cleaner